The Senate - FP = outlasted and defeated
- Thread starter Gibby Jr
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Surkan said:im sure thats what people said about swastikas 80 years ago too
thats how things work in our world, i dont get why its so hard to just respect it's being associated with nazis
Nice quoting a random page that verifies what you say. Here's a random page that verifies what we're saying instead:
Swastikas are obviously intrinsically linked with nazism due to how they were used, but this clown meme is not at all linked in the same way. There isn't really a good comparison to be made because these clown memes are not a serious symbol of ANYTHING and are not really different from any other pepe meme. I direct you back to what Mrs Merkel said here:
Angola_Merkel said:
u must only support the left it is the only way
I was in a party the other day and I came in wearin a Real Madrids jersey, loads of my friends are Real Madrid fans and they love the club. I was approached by a cute girl wich looked at my shirt with a smile and said;
-"Oh DL! Thats a cool jersey! I am Madrid fan too!"
So I hit the hoe in the face and screamed at her;
-"How can you imply that I am Real Madrid supporter! I hate the club and everything that represents! I am just wearing the t-shirt because of the aesthetics, obviously! I wont let Real Madrid fans decide if I can wear their jersey or not!"
-"Oh DL! Thats a cool jersey! I am Madrid fan too!"
So I hit the hoe in the face and screamed at her;
-"How can you imply that I am Real Madrid supporter! I hate the club and everything that represents! I am just wearing the t-shirt because of the aesthetics, obviously! I wont let Real Madrid fans decide if I can wear their jersey or not!"
Gibby Jr said:
Its a meme, bassicly symbol, symbols can mean whatever the individual wants them to mean but they usually form strong associations around the popular feeling of what the majority of people want them to mean. People use these symbols to adhere themselves to what they represent. This meme in particular may have not started as a symbol of the far-right but the fact that a majority of far-right groups use it represent themselves, ironically or not, gives the impression that if you are using it as a forum avatar or posting it around you are in fact part of that group.
If you understand this and you are ready to explain to everyone that you dont actually care about whats behind the meme and you just like flailing it around, then we have nothing more to discuss, but dont be surprised if people start thinking the wrong way about you.
Can we clarify things here please bois. No one is denying that some neo-nazis use clown world memes. No one is denying that clown world has some neo-nazi connotations. The choice of avatars by myself and Mandingo are not from neo-nazi positions, but from one of enjoying the visual imagery combined with funny political debate that takes place between the left and right on various platforms. When M first asked about the Honk Honklers, he was given an answer, however from there different community members have tried to take the argument in all sorts of directions. I personally was not surprised that questions were asked about my avatar, but was not worried because I knew that I could explain my choice. Unfortunately, some people are incapable of understanding that explanation, perhaps for those people a slight amendment to DarkLight's analogy may be useful.
Angola Merkel wears a Real Madrid jersey, some guy on the street approaches Angola Merkel:
-"Ah mate, do you support Real or som'thin'?"
-"No not really, I don't watch much football but I just like the way the shirt makes my nipples look."
-"Ah thank god, I'm a Barca boi me, no worries bud, have a good one."
In this situation, the man has accepted Angola's response because no one knows what Angola is thinking, other than Angola.
Therefore I would suggest that people think a bit more carefully about the accusations they couch at certain avatar choices, given that they clearly have no insight into the thought processes behind the choosing of the avatars. The more that people insist that we are things that we KNOW we are not, the stupider they seem.
DarkLight, we are not going to explain that we don't care, instead, we have explained that we are using it for different reasons. Because of this, its not "flailing" around. You may not agree with our explanation, but that doesn't make it less true.
Angola Merkel wears a Real Madrid jersey, some guy on the street approaches Angola Merkel:
-"Ah mate, do you support Real or som'thin'?"
-"No not really, I don't watch much football but I just like the way the shirt makes my nipples look."
-"Ah thank god, I'm a Barca boi me, no worries bud, have a good one."
In this situation, the man has accepted Angola's response because no one knows what Angola is thinking, other than Angola.
Therefore I would suggest that people think a bit more carefully about the accusations they couch at certain avatar choices, given that they clearly have no insight into the thought processes behind the choosing of the avatars. The more that people insist that we are things that we KNOW we are not, the stupider they seem.
DarkLight, we are not going to explain that we don't care, instead, we have explained that we are using it for different reasons. Because of this, its not "flailing" around. You may not agree with our explanation, but that doesn't make it less true.
Angola_Merkel said:
If you wear an avatar with connotations to a certain ideology, you cant really blame people for accusing you of supporting said ideology, cant you? Then again, you explained yourself and your motives and thats enough for me, but that isnt gonna stop people who havent read it from making the only logical connection when seeing your avatar.
Yeah, that's sort of what I was trying to get at, I'm not surprised people assumed things to begin with, however, there are several people that are clearly engaged with the debate that are refusing to accept that, it's these people that I am taking issue with. It's these people that I have been proving their stupidity by insisting the truthfulness of things that I (and only I can) know to be false. But ty DL, you seem to be one of the only people that has actually engaged brain.
Your explanations are utterly mundane, it's just that it leads to you looking like an idiot. "Yeah, I knew this stuff was connected to bad stuff, but I don't believe in it so when I put it up everywhere, even though I know that will cause assumptions, I'm beyond any connection." It's just a modern version of:
And of course, as a completely separate issue, not connected at all, you also have sympathies with the views that the clown world people espouse. But no that's not WHY you're displaying it - 'tis just a coincidence!
And of course, as a completely separate issue, not connected at all, you also have sympathies with the views that the clown world people espouse. But no that's not WHY you're displaying it - 'tis just a coincidence!
OurGloriousLeader said:Your explanations are utterly mundane, it's just that it leads to you looking like an idiot. "Yeah, I knew this stuff was connected to bad stuff, but I don't believe in it so when I put it up everywhere, even though I know that will cause assumptions, I'm beyond any connection." It's just a modern version of:
And of course, as a completely separate issue, not connected at all, you also have sympathies with the views that the clown world people espouse. But no that's not WHY you're displaying it - 'tis just a coincidence!
This is just proving my point. The issue is people that can't understand the explanation. The only reason that any of what you said could hold true is if assumption insists connection (you're suggesting that: "even though I know that will cause assumptions, I'm beyond any connection." is an illogical statement). It doesn't. In this scenario, connection (or lack thereof) is a fact - myself and Mandingo are not connected to neo-nazis. People, however, are assuming we are. Normally the wonderful thing about assumptions is that when the truth is told, people lose their assumptions. You refuse to do that because clearly, you know more about our political views than we do. In fact, I think you're last sentence sums up your ignorance perfectly; prior to this debate we have had no discourse with one another about our respective political views (even within this debate very little about actual beliefs has been discussed - all that is clear is that I think people should be able to post what they find funny, even if the joke police don't), as a result you have no real insight into my political views and yet claim definitively that I'm politically sympathetic to the meme. You are a broken record and constantly correcting you is getting boring.
I'm not saying it's an illogical statement, I'm saying it's not believable or credible. One can conceive of multiple "possible" explanations for any behaviour, but they are not all credible or likely, and when you make statements that nobody is going to believe it leads to you looking foolish, especially as the explanation shifts from just being an art connoisseur to "combined with funny political debate that takes place between the left and right on various platforms". Keep going, we'll get there!
Secondly, you don't have to be connected with neo-nazis to be able to be criticised - liking the memes because they are edgy, you have sympathy for the lighter political connotations, prefer to focus on anti-SJW or anti-PC characteristics, etc all of this is just as deserving of mockery. I know it suits your needs to point out that you don't literally deny the holocaust so it's all good, but personally I find that to be a bit of a low bar.
And lastly, since Gibby and others have been desperately messaging trying to clear the good name of the Prequel Memers, I do have some understanding of your political views, you were presented as the most non fascist in the group since you are incredibly anti-state. Going a little deeper however, it turned out your views were closer to anarcho-capitalist than anything else, which is ****ing lol and simply supports my interpretation.
Secondly, you don't have to be connected with neo-nazis to be able to be criticised - liking the memes because they are edgy, you have sympathy for the lighter political connotations, prefer to focus on anti-SJW or anti-PC characteristics, etc all of this is just as deserving of mockery. I know it suits your needs to point out that you don't literally deny the holocaust so it's all good, but personally I find that to be a bit of a low bar.
And lastly, since Gibby and others have been desperately messaging trying to clear the good name of the Prequel Memers, I do have some understanding of your political views, you were presented as the most non fascist in the group since you are incredibly anti-state. Going a little deeper however, it turned out your views were closer to anarcho-capitalist than anything else, which is ****ing lol and simply supports my interpretation.
Well, I would hope it is believable/ credible, given that you are clearly now aware that I am not a neo-nazi, so you've made a bit of a judgement error there. If you look at my original response to you, you will see that I sited the image and the community even at the earliest stage - its factually incorrect to say that my argument has shifted in this regard.
I'm not suggesting that I am, or should be, free from criticism. The options that you posed, to begin with, were: you are either a nazi or an idiot. Funnily enough, I didn't want to identify as either of those. The crux of the entire debate has been the neo-nazi issue. Once again, it appears that you've now finally accepted I'm not, so I would argue that I should be free from the same criticism owed to neo-nazis (which previously I was not). If you want to criticise me for being anti-PC then go for it. If I recall history correctly, the Nazis did like controlling speech, so if you're a fan of that and I'm not then hey, people have different ideas, some are "just a coincidence" is suppose. Yes, I share a very faint view with clown world, but most of the left shares some faint views with Hitler directly, so I don't really feel that we are in a position to judge each other here. You're not a Nazi, so neither am I.
I apologise for telling you that you don't have any understanding of my political views; I was blissfully unaware that they were in fact shared with you in some detail. To be picky, I would class myself as a Minarchist, not Anarcho-capitalist (not that there is a huge difference, but I do believe some state should exist). If it's gonna be posted on a forum, I may as well make sure it's accurate. I don't quite see how this supports your interpretation though? If its the interpretation of me as a Nazi, then I'd argue that it's just about as far away from support as you can get. If its your interpretation of me as someone that is anti-PC then yeah, fair enough. Obviously, you are very differently politically inclined and If you have any issues with my belief existing (as many of the increasingly intolerant left do) then feel free to hmu and I'll happily discuss it. I think at this point however the point of the forum argument ends.
We have all clearly come to accept that myself and my mixed-race teammate (African btw) are not neo-nazis and that your entire argument was thus incorrect. I'm sure that people will still disagree about the decision to use the avatars we are choosing to use at the moment but that's cool. People disagree about a lot of things, things with much bigger world consequences. Ty OGL this has been good procrastination for me.
PS. Sorry for calling you a spoon, I don't know what came over me, I consider myself a man a relative civilisation but that, that was just barbaric, no man should have to endure that. I truly wish I could take it back. I truly do.
I'm not suggesting that I am, or should be, free from criticism. The options that you posed, to begin with, were: you are either a nazi or an idiot. Funnily enough, I didn't want to identify as either of those. The crux of the entire debate has been the neo-nazi issue. Once again, it appears that you've now finally accepted I'm not, so I would argue that I should be free from the same criticism owed to neo-nazis (which previously I was not). If you want to criticise me for being anti-PC then go for it. If I recall history correctly, the Nazis did like controlling speech, so if you're a fan of that and I'm not then hey, people have different ideas, some are "just a coincidence" is suppose. Yes, I share a very faint view with clown world, but most of the left shares some faint views with Hitler directly, so I don't really feel that we are in a position to judge each other here. You're not a Nazi, so neither am I.
I apologise for telling you that you don't have any understanding of my political views; I was blissfully unaware that they were in fact shared with you in some detail. To be picky, I would class myself as a Minarchist, not Anarcho-capitalist (not that there is a huge difference, but I do believe some state should exist). If it's gonna be posted on a forum, I may as well make sure it's accurate. I don't quite see how this supports your interpretation though? If its the interpretation of me as a Nazi, then I'd argue that it's just about as far away from support as you can get. If its your interpretation of me as someone that is anti-PC then yeah, fair enough. Obviously, you are very differently politically inclined and If you have any issues with my belief existing (as many of the increasingly intolerant left do) then feel free to hmu and I'll happily discuss it. I think at this point however the point of the forum argument ends.
We have all clearly come to accept that myself and my mixed-race teammate (African btw) are not neo-nazis and that your entire argument was thus incorrect. I'm sure that people will still disagree about the decision to use the avatars we are choosing to use at the moment but that's cool. People disagree about a lot of things, things with much bigger world consequences. Ty OGL this has been good procrastination for me.
PS. Sorry for calling you a spoon, I don't know what came over me, I consider myself a man a relative civilisation but that, that was just barbaric, no man should have to endure that. I truly wish I could take it back. I truly do.
