SP Medieval The Second Crusade Mod (Released for .711)

[altoids]

this has been said elsewhere but anyways your muslim warriors should at least have shirts... muslims consider it improper to not be fully clothed in public... it's rude so i'm sure if anything they would have a cloth shirt.

 

[Batur Kaan]

yeah,altoid is right.they should at least have a shirt on them.

but in real wars,they wore armours that weighed nearly 30 kgs.

 

[lancer63]

yeah,altoid is right.they should at least have a shirt on them.

but in real wars,they wore armours that weighed nearly 30 kgs.

Those would be the Crusaders in any case Batur Kaan. Muslims as a rule wore much lighter armor. Better suited for hot, arid terrain warfare. And by the time of the second crusade, christian soldiers of the kingdom of Jerusalem had learned the benefits of trading armor for mobility.

 

[Batur Kaan]

u're right.many of them used lighter armours.but i 've just looked it up from encyclopedia britannica .there was a picture of chain mail there and below the picture it was written'' crusaders and muslims wore similar armours''

 

[sheek]

Misconception - the Muslims were more intellectually advanced for a significant period of time (mainly because they looted Greek and Roman wisdom from Alexandria, Carthage, and Antioch), but by the time of the Second Crusade, the two cultures had balanced out. The Muslims never made a concerted effort to study and improve the resources they received from the Greeks and Romans, whereas the Europeans did. Averroes was not the rule, he was not the norm, he was the exception. In fact, one contemporary source proclaims him as a heretic.

I don't know where you get your history lessons from but this is not true and actually quite offensive. Arabic numbers, algebra, most trigonometry, astronomy (many constellations and the first telescopes), new architectural methods and basically the whole of medicine up to the 18th century all came from the Arabs. In other disciplines like geography, music and philosophy they were more advanced than Europe as well.

Science was encouraged in early medieval Arabia up to 1000 AD definitely. To say Europe was more tolerant of science and had free speech is simply unbelievable.

 

[Dynamite_cow]

Well currently, I have it so that mamelukes might or not wear mail hauberks and other heavier armour. Many wear stuff like nomad armours and headcloths too.

McNools, I'm currently doing some work on the warhorse to make it templar style, but if you wanna help, please do. I'm not the best texturer on Earth anyway.

 

[catsoup]

i dont see tripoli on the map. well, anyway, i'd make it stretch from small armenia till cairo and mosul.

 

[Dynamite_cow]

True, the map ain't gonna have much other than the kingdom of Jerusalem (and a bit of the Syrian desert of course). That's because... I'm lazy. Well I did think about having Antioch and Tripoli on the map too, but it was simpler to do as it is now.

 

[lancer63]

u're right.many of them used lighter armours.but i 've just looked it up from encyclopedia britannica .there was a picture of chain mail there and below the picture it was written'' crusaders and muslims wore similar armours''

Aye to that laddie. But that came to be AFTER the crusaders, or franks as they were known to the muslims, took their lessons on what heat can do to a man in heavy armor. That's why you can see lighter weapons, armor and even horses on crusaders of later crusades and even in europe.

 

[Batur Kaan]

i have given you even the source.it's not important what you know.i mean in daily life they ofcourse wore light shirts.but when it's war time
their armours weren't as light as shirts.it's right that both sides wore chain mails.but muslıms didNt use plate mails till late 14. century.

 

[McNools]

McNools, I'm currently doing some work on the warhorse to make it templar style, but if you wanna help, please do. I'm not the best texturer on Earth anyway.

I'm starting school tomorrow so I'll be abit busy for awhile, but I'll see what I can do when I have some spare time

 

[bbcrackmonkey]

The heaviest armor that the Muslim troops should wear should be guard helmets and lamellar armor. The Kataphract horse from the Hugemod with it's lamellar style plating would be perfect for the Mamluk Khassaki (the elite horse troops of the Mamluk armies).

Low level Muslim soldiers should have headcloths and coarse tunics, light should have nomad armor and nomad caps/steppe caps, medium level ones should have Padded Armor or chain hauberks, spiked helmets, leather gloves, etc.

Weapons should be scimitars, fighting axes, hand axes, spears, lances, spiked maces, nomad sabres, glaives, and any specialist weapons you guys would like to make.

All Muslim men should be wearing facial hair, as it was and still is considered pious to have facial hair in Islam.

Muslims not wearing shirts would be immodest and totally out of the question. When you are in a hot desert climate you need robes of some type to keep the sun from directly hitting your skin, usually sandy colored or white. Muslim warriors often wore brightly colored clothing along with their armor and weapons. It is also considered pious for Muslim men to wear some kind of covering over their head, like a turban, headcloth, those little beanies you see modern ones wearing here in the US, etc.

Here are some pictures to give you a few examples:

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/JamesAdams/treasure_trove/saracen/saracen_warrior%2001.jpg

http://www.tabula-rasa.info/JamesAdams/treasure_trove/saracen/saracen_warrior%2002.jpg

I would also recommend you replace the Dark Knights with Mongolian War Parties, and the Khergit Raiders with Mongol Raiders. Whichever side you choose to be the Muslims, like say the Vaegirs, their deserters should be changed into the Hashishin. That's just my two cents.

 

[Cale]

On the subject of facial hair I would say that it is mostly in the form of mustaches. When I was in Palestine I grew a beard since I couldn't be bothered to shave and the locals called me Sheikh Yunnis (Spiritual Leader of Hamas, oh how they laughed) because only Sheikhs have beards.

 

[Batur Kaan]

bbcrackmonkey ,good job.then i can not say any more words.u re completely right. in syria and the other arabian regions ,people had to wear especially white clothes made of cloth . because white reflects sun.(u already know that )

but u can't ignore the turks.in the first crusade approximately 600.000 crusaders(if the number is wrong ,then let's say more then half of them)were killed in anatolia by turksih soldiers.one of their commanders was salahaddin eyyubi in the second and third crusade time.
and beleive me,since the turks lived in anatolia they didn't have to care for heat.so they used vigorius enough armours.
u may say the game isn't in anatolia.then u re right again.but don't forget , the arabs only cleared up what was left from turkish sultans.

 

[lancer63]

i have given you even the source.it's not important what you know.i mean in daily life they ofcourse wore light shirts.but when it's war time
their armours weren't as light as shirts.it's right that both sides wore chain mails.but muslıms didNt use plate mails till late 14. century.

No need to be rude kid. If you wanted my sources you just had to ask.
Here are some of mine:
Osprey Military Publications
Armies of the Crusades MAA 75
The Knights of Christ MAA 155
Hattin 1187 Campaing Series 19
Knight of Outremer 1187-1344 A.D. Warrior Series 18
Saracen Faris 1050-1250 A.D. Warrior Series 10

The Guinness History of Land Warfare, Guinness Superlatives Limited.

And here's one in spanish too:

Historia y Leyendas de las Cruzadas, Cesare Cantú, Edicomunicacion, S.A.

Hope this helps.

 

[Batur Kaan]

thanks that would be helpful if i ....

 

[bbcrackmonkey]

The Turks are an entirely different faction and if you want to put them in the mod then feel free, as they also participated vigorously in the crusades. Also the Byzantine Empire did as well. Their style of warfare was mostly like the Black Khergit Raiders, using lots of mounted horse archers and then heavy cavalry. During the time of the Crusades the Turks primarily relied on ranged fire and being able to shoot their opponents full of arrows, but they also had heavy elite cavalry like the Spahi and the Janissaries who made good cavalry and infantry.

The lowest level Arab troops should be Beduin and Arab tribesmen, the higher level ones should be Mamluks. You can have one set of bandits called "Beduin Bandits" who just ride around wearing headcloths and coarse tunics. You can have another set of Christian bandits who are crusade deserters.

If I may point out, a lot more people had facial hair in the Middle Ages simply because it was a lot harder to shave back then, which doesn't even go into the question of Muslim men considering it pious to have a beard. Nowadays mustaches are gaining in popularity in many Arab countries but the more poius men still wear beards.

Oh yeah, and it's true that the Muslims didn't use platemail until later (mostly the Turks). They preferred lamellar and chainmail for its flexibility and light weight during the time of the Crusades.

 

[Batur Kaan]

u 're completely right bbcrackmonkey.

 

[Phaedo]

Misconception - the Muslims were more intellectually advanced for a significant period of time (mainly because they looted Greek and Roman wisdom from Alexandria, Carthage, and Antioch), but by the time of the Second Crusade, the two cultures had balanced out. The Muslims never made a concerted effort to study and improve the resources they received from the Greeks and Romans, whereas the Europeans did. Averroes was not the rule, he was not the norm, he was the exception. In fact, one contemporary source proclaims him as a heretic.

I don't know where you get your history lessons from but this is not true and actually quite offensive. Arabic numbers, algebra, most trigonometry, astronomy (many constellations and the first telescopes), new architectural methods and basically the whole of medicine up to the 18th century all came from the Arabs. In other disciplines like geography, music and philosophy they were more advanced than Europe as well.

Science was encouraged in early medieval Arabia up to 1000 AD definitely. To say Europe was more tolerant of science and had free speech is simply unbelievable.

Arabic numbers and trigonometry were pilfered from India, along with the decimal system. Algebra was a slight modification of the principles of Herron of Alexandria. Astronomy was taken from the Phoenicians and Indians, and the Medieval Europeans also studied the stars for navigation. Astronomy had been studied since the days of Ptolemy, the Arabs did nothing to advance it. The Muslims had a more detailed knowledge of the East because they had conquered India and launched trading ships down the African Coast and across the Indian Ocean to Java and Thailand.

How can you judge their music as being more advanced?

That's right, you can't.

As for philosophy, I'll simply remind you that Averroes was chased out of Al-Andalus for his writings on the Quran. He went to Castile for refuge.

Guess what? Castile was Christian.

 

[Sahran]

"i have given you even the source.it's not important what you know.i mean in daily life they ofcourse wore light shirts.but when it's war time
their armours weren't as light as shirts.it's right that both sides wore chain mails.but muslıms didNt use plate mails till late 14. century."

You do realize that plate mail was -invented- in the 14th century, right? Either that, or the 13th century..