The only but easy way to finally balance the factions

[Aprikosenmann]

Honestly, balancing six factions against each other is almost impossible, especially if they are supposed to differ significantly.

My idea is to abandon the faction concept. Both teams should have access to all classes from all factions.

This way skirmish and captain is 100% balanced immediately.

Pro	Con
-100% Balanced	-Possibly a single meta per map(basically mirrormatchups only)
-More variance	-One Troop will always be the best and spammed
-Each class can be buffed/nerfed without ruining the faction balance The pickrates of all classes could be observed and the least picked ones buffed. Even if an overbuff happens it will be fair and a meta shift will happen.	-Class Restriction will still be needed with access to Mamluk, Camel and Fian
-More possible combinations	-The M&B Original Concept of factions will be 50% dropped
-Archer Players are not screwed on Sturgia
-Inf Players are not screwed on Khuzait
-Shifting and interesting metas (when patching classes)

Now let's try to improve the system to remove some downsides...
Each class could be limited to a maximum of once per team. This ensures that Inf does not choose only Oathsworm, Archer only Fian and Rider only Camel.
In addition, the class limit could become unnecessary if there are only 2 strong horsemen troops, for example, and the others become weaker and weaker after that.

Pro	Con
-100% Balanced	-Possibly a single meta per map but unlikely if each class can only picked once.
-Even more variance	-One Troop will always be the best and spammed
-Each class can be buffed/nerfed without ruining the faction balance The pickrates of all classes could be observed and the least picked ones buffed. Even if an overbuff happens it will be fair and a meta shift will happen.	-Class Restriction will still be needed with access to Mamluk, Camel and Fian
-More possible combinations	-The M&B Original Concept of factions will be 50% dropped
-Archer Players are not screwed on Sturgia
-Inf Players are not screwed on Khuzait
-Shifting and interesting metas (when patching classes)

Why should we not try this? Isnt EA maybe for exactly such (big and experimental) changes?

If you transfer the current bannerlord system to league of legends it would look like this: If you find a game both sides get a random theme: E.g. Yordles vs. Demacia
One team can only pick yordles and the other team can only pick demacia champions.
There would exist very unfair matchups instantly. All tank players would be additionally ruined if yordles come.
For this reason you can, of course, pick all champions.

 

[Namakan]

Interesting idea but it just doesn't align with anything the game is so far. I'd like to eventually try this out as a mod or maybe as a limited time event sort of thing, but as the main thing for MP, I don't like it.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Interesting idea but it just doesn't align with anything the game is so far. I'd like to eventually try this out as a mod or maybe as a limited time event sort of thing, but as the main thing for MP, I don't like it.

Well it would align with the forced class system. So you agree that it solves basically all problems but only a mod should do it?

 

[Ikea Knight]

I don't see the issue with unbalanced factions.

The issue are the unbalanced classes and the self imposed class restrictions.


In the tournament factions don't matter as much since both teams get to play each faction / side.
The one thing we could do to improve our tournament here is to declare the winner on round /difference rather than actual wins.

For casual games in Skirmish the unbalanced factions aren't an issue either because in theory every faction has strong point/ or weak point.
Khuzait habe lot's of cavalry, especially mounted archers but lack heavy infantry.
Battania lacks heavy cavalry but has strong archer and skirmishers.
Sturgia has decent cav and strong infantry but lacks good archers.

So as Khuzait the team is supposed to use cavalry. The issue here is that we as a community have our own class restriction and that some factions, even if they are played the way they should be can't keep up because their units aren't good enough at the thing they are supposed to be good in.


Siege is something different though, since there some teams are put into a defensive position even though they do not have the right units for that role.

 

[Younes]

You will never find perfect balance, it's an impossible task for any game.

 

[Marko͘]

Sure but it doesn't mean you should stop trying to balance it.

Apriko's idea isn't bad but in my opinion it's against the spirit of the game. The whole thing is built on a principle of factions and cultures rather than something like mixed culture mercenary companies.

The proposed system mixes everything in, but also falls short of just having custom troops altogether(like cRPG or Mercenaries) imo.

The faction system could be kept if there were some changes to the way balancing is done and matches are played:

• Separate PvE and PvP troops and stats/perks/item selection. I still don't understand why this is not a thing.
• Make the default skirmish and captain game matchmaking format include a side swap. Both teams play both factions, round difference is the deciding factor. Wins and losses are a thing, don't see why draws wouldn't be. If match length is a concern, drop the whole multiple lives nonsense and use battle gamemode like it should've been used from the start.
• A radical idea that hasn't been tried before in gaming history but just imagine we had the ability to pick our own loadouts and make different builds, drops and decisions depending on faction matchups. Man that would be crazy!!

 

[OurGloriousLeader]

I mean it would be more balanced but you lose a lot of the flavour of the game, plus the meta will come down to just a few useful classes or similar classes every game. Really cbf going against Vlandia xbow every match, or only the Sturgia inf being viable (and so on - whatever is strongest depending on patch).

 

[Ikea Knight]

Apriko's idea isn't bad but in my opinion it's against the spirit of the game.

Yeah absolutly. I forgot to mention that in my post. But for me that's the key reason why I accept "unbalanced factions "

Factions with different identities and playstyles are at the core of the game.

 

[Aprikosenmann]

I mean it would be more balanced but you lose a lot of the flavour of the game, plus the meta will come down to just a few useful classes or similar classes every game. Really cbf going against Vlandia xbow every match, or only the Sturgia inf being viable (and so on - whatever is strongest depending on patch).

The first spawn is kinda set thats true, but alot can happen when people die and they need to spawn something else. Each troop has one spawn per side ...

But my main point is that you can actually just balance the classes because you dont have to think about faction balance! Right now you cant quickly nerf the mounted khuzait glaive with crushthrough or the khuzait archer glaive because the faction is already super weak.

Mamluk -> Nomad (330g)
Camel -> Battania Cav -> Recruit (360g)
Fian -> X Bow (320g)
Vlandia Seargant -> Sturgia Seargant (320g)
Oathsworm -> Tribal Warrior ->Warrior (360g)
Legionary -> Voulgier (280g)

 

[Helz]

But my main point is that you can actually just balance the classes because you dont have to think about faction balance!

Better yet, remove the classes and then only worry about faction balance.

 

[Cek]

I would like to give my opinion on this idea of balance in captain mode (i've not enough experience on skirmish to talk about it), i think this system will make every match potentialy "balance" but "flat", i mean every team would pick 5 schook troops from different factions (with class restriction) and the best shield unit every match as right now this is the meta you would play with almost all factions.
Instead i like that right now some factions (khuzait and battania) don't give you this possibility and you need to rely on different tactics to win, like using more cavalry and crossfire with archer for khuzait or use more heavy units and use the choke points with battania.

On more personal opinion, i like more the idea on playing as a faction rather than choose the "operator" like in a FPS, in the second case you can save even more time on balance and drop factions all together and give the player only one mixed factions so you need to balance only 7 unit instead of 45

 

[Firunien]

Without factions it would be very boring, i think this is a really bad idea. Spawnswitch ensures a 100% balance.

 

[Younes]

As said above, a spawnswitch would literally fix most issues for balance, if one side if unbalanced and the other overpowered, then by just switching u give both teams the chance to have an advantage

 

[Aprikosenmann]

Khuzait vs Aserai is a complete timewaste and not fun, even with the faction switch. It will always end in a draw if teams are somewhat equal in skill.
And it has been like this for 9 months now.

 

[Firunien]

Khuzait vs Aserai is a complete timewaste and not fun, even with the faction switch. It will always end in a draw if teams are somewhat equal in skill.
And it has been like this for 9 months now.

Thats no reason to completely gut the game, maybe Khuzait is just bad because of self imposed class restrictions or its bad even without it x). There has been no attempt to buff Khuzait, they just received nerfs throughout the last patches (horsearchery, no more triplespawn on inf).

 

[Mabons]

I appreciate the idea: no game is perfectly balanced and Bannerlord isn’t going to be the exception. You brought up League(which I know you play sometimes)as an example of which is updated every 2 weeks at least and goes through constant balance cycles.

I thought after the success of mercs and crpg and persistent kingdoms/world whatever in warband Taleworlds would jump on that bandwagon and just have a fully customisable character with the ability to purchase gear that you grinded for. Having strength tied to physical appearance and such things. This would lead to balance being quite straightforward as you just look at what strategies are overbearing/over performing and bring them down a bit while slightly buffing under performing stats, weapons, armour. Costs associated as well can be changed more freely than the current class system.

 

[Revverie]

I'm just going to say: Mordhau

 

[hoonii]

Thats no reason to completely gut the game, maybe Khuzait is just bad because of self imposed class restrictions or its bad even without it x). There has been no attempt to buff Khuzait, they just received nerfs throughout the last patches (horsearchery, no more triplespawn on inf).

The reason khuzait is weak is that their "heavy" infantry can't spawn 3 times as before and it completely underperforms for a double spawn heavy infantry compared to others and their supposed strength, the cavalry is the worst in the game. With 1.5.5 cavalry is getting a nice buff but spear infantry is still double spawn so they will still underperform imo, they need to be the same level as tribal warrior. I don't understand why devs literally hate khuzait this much that they have done nothing to buff them until now.

 

[Forsee]

The only really unbalanced faction now is khuzait, all one-sided matchups include khuzait, so the balancing is mostly comes down to balancing this faction. And I can offer a solution - remove khuzait. It's balance is broken, It's not fun to play khuzait cause you're always losing against even skilled team, it's not fun to play against khuzait with their glaives and horse archers, khuzait is just not fun at all. I see devs it trying to buff them by buffing horse archery, and that's REALLY will worsen the fun of a game. Once again, there was a reason khergits was banned on Warband servers.

 

[WhiteEyedSh4rk]

I mean it would be more balanced but you lose a lot of the flavour of the game, plus the meta will come down to just a few useful classes or similar classes every game. Really cbf going against Vlandia xbow every match, or only the Sturgia inf being viable (and so on - whatever is strongest depending on patch).

This pretty much sums up my feelings about this. The balance has been improved already and i'm sure it will get improved even more. It will never be perfect anyways and it doesen't have to be.