The Nerfs on Armors

[Dr-Shinobi]

Well, I saw a very degenarative thing on the Imperial's (Lamellar armors) gear... So, are you saying armor are working properly now?
This is the first time I went on Beta (1.5.4) to try it out and I saw a reductive values to the empire armor and high elevation on some other nonsense. I only went there, caus e of the others posts to check if was true.

So, the problem are in the weapons?

Ah so its about that one...well why dont you type in the other post that was actually about that, not spreading out some things about armors being nerfed as it feels miss leading to the general gameplay per say ...https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/lamellar-gear-nerf.433914/

 

[Earth Dragon]

Ah so its about that one...well why dont you type in the other post that was actually about that, not spreading out some things about armors being nerfed as it feels miss leading to the general gameplay per say ...https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/lamellar-gear-nerf.433914/

What are you talking about?

It doesn’t matter what armor you are wearing. When I first was playing this game, higher grade armor absorbed a lot more damage. It took a dozen plus hits to take high armor targets down in your first arena match.

Now, it doesn’t matter what armor they are wearing, a brand new character can takedown the most heavily armored charactered in the game in 4-5 swings.

Something changed to where armor isn’t as useful.

 

[Apocal]

Something changed to where armor isn’t as useful.

They made all tournament weapons deal Blunt damage a few patches back.

 

[CrazyElf]

Like the majority of posters here, I would like to see these changes reversed. Armor needed a buff before this patch.

The thing is, even 48 body armor is super low when you can get hit by a glaive that does 180 damage. I just do not understand why they doubled, tripled and in some cases quadrupled damage values from what they were in Warband, while armor values have stayed the same or even lower. It just makes no sense at all.

I think armor all around at this point needs a huge buff. If anything, I'm of the opinion that armor before the buff wasn't good enough.

They made all tournament weapons deal Blunt damage a few patches back.

Yes - this change makes sense, as blunt weapons are more survivable (ex: no tournaments to the death) and blunt weapons allow for more prisoners to be captured, percentage wise, rather than killed outright.

The change to the armor stats though, I strongly disagree with.

 

[Apocal]

Yes - this change makes sense, as blunt weapons are more survivable (ex: no tournaments to the death) and blunt weapons allow for more prisoners to be captured, percentage wise, rather than killed outright.

The change to the armor stats though, I strongly disagree with.

Strictly speaking of tournaments, the change to the armor stats did little. It was adding in blunt weapons that made armor ineffective and reduced the difficulty for skilled players.

 

[CrazyElf]

Strictly speaking of tournaments, the change to the armor stats did little. It was adding in blunt weapons that made armor ineffective and reduced the difficulty for skilled players.

Late game, it would have the opposite effect IMO when more players are heavily armored, but early game, it makes sense that it would negate some of the advantage.

 

[Apocal]

Late game, it would have the opposite effect IMO when more players are heavily armored, but early game, it makes sense that it would negate some of the advantage.

I'd agree it hurts less skilled players in the late game, when they could just bull through tournaments with tier 6 armor, but most of the complaints have been that tournaments are too easy, not that are too hard. So I assume most people posting on the forum are skilled enough they didn't need to rely on armor.

 

[ceprast]

No, its a complex calculation, but I believe its a similar damage formula to what Warband had. Whatever it is, I can run around with any number of melee weapons and one-shot every troop I hit no matter what they're wearing. That shouldn't happen

Actually I think it is mostly damage reduction with a small percentage reduction as well It's explained better here https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...t-doesnt-work-and-how-to-make-it-work.426296/ . That's why rocks do basically the same damage against high armor as low. this system doesn't scale properly with higher amounts of damage which is why on realistic and factoring in movement bonuses everything gets one shot.

Basically a glaive in real life could never be swung with enough force to cut through a coat of plates, the glaive would break before it reached a high enough threshold. But in the game mechanics riding around with a base 150ish weapon plus movement bonuses will generate values well over two hundred probably even into three hundred. This then gets reduced by a measly 48-68 depending on the armor you have and where hit which is still a kill-shot.

Not to mention that while damage and health got basically doubled from WB armor is about the same so it does make considerably less difference.

 

[Medivhtratos]

So far the weapon length is also a factor and handling. In close combat you will not deliver 200 cut dmg with a glaive, have tested it, was 6 blunt . For me, Movement speed is the real damage changer. Damn with 2 skills (1 in 2h, 1 in athletics), on foot, you will get 60% speed dmg bonus. If I use a 2h axe with 124 weapon damage and aim for the head while charging on foot, the result is 300-400 pure dmg. But if I can't build up speed it drops to 130-140.

(You have to consider that my char has 282 in 2h and 275 in athletics).

The other way around is if I get hit by the opponent, he will also deal more dmg because he can use my charge speed against me. (like to run in a spear )

I think the speed dmg modifier needs to be updated.

Edit: and please put that "in real life" aside.. I have never seen my hp in real life...

 

[ceprast]

So far the weapon length is also a factor and handling. In close combat you will not deliver 200 cut dmg with a glaive, have tested it, was 6 blunt . For me, Movement speed is the real damage changer. Damn with 2 skills (1 in 2h, 1 in athletics), on foot, you will get 60% speed dmg bonus. If I use a 2h axe with 124 weapon damage and aim for the head while charging on foot, the result is 300-400 pure dmg. But if I can't build up speed it drops to 130-140.

(You have to consider that my char has 282 in 2h and 275 in athletics).

The other way around is if I get hit by the opponent, he will also deal more dmg because he can use my charge speed against me. (like to run in a spear )

I think the speed dmg modifier needs to be updated.

Edit: and please put that "in real life" aside.. I have never seen my hp in real life...

The IRL is supposed to give a baseline comparison. As in IRL you cannot chop through a metal plate portion of armor, and moving forward does not suddenly give you the ability to do so.

In the game standing still the Armor actually can provide some protection at least it will take a second strike to kill. But suddenly if you move forward you do so much damage that the armor becomes entirely irrelevant. This is also weird because the extra m/s or two you get from moving forward should not magnify damage by 3-4x when it is only a small portion of the weapons acceleration respective to the actual swing.

 

[Hans 77]

They are caving to the PvP crowd

The PvP crowd is 100% NOT clamoring for lower armor. If anything, we want more access to equipment and thus, more armor as well.

And I think both sides of the isle want all the equipment to be *functional*.

In MP, the single-value armor rating for the entire character causes a plethora of issues, stemming from it being a static number attributed to your character regardless of what their armor value should be worth. It's simply a lack of customizability and it hurts the game.

In SP, armor is just non-functional. Pretty much any blow just tears through armor, no matter how high quality it is. This lack of functional mechanics also hurts the game.

Both need to be fixed.

 

[Akka]

Yeah, I have the feeling that the movement speed is too much a factor in the engine calculation. I suspect that it's simply added/substracted from the weapon speed and as such take a far too big importance.

 

[Antaeus]

Interesting... I noticed in my new post-update game that after I married, and pinched a top tier suit of armour, I got one-shot by looters on a couple of occasions. I thought it was just me being slack.

Then again, maybe it was just me.

 

[CrazyElf]

Actually I think it is mostly damage reduction with a small percentage reduction as well It's explained better here https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...t-doesnt-work-and-how-to-make-it-work.426296/ . That's why rocks do basically the same damage against high armor as low. this system doesn't scale properly with higher amounts of damage which is why on realistic and factoring in movement bonuses everything gets one shot.

Basically a glaive in real life could never be swung with enough force to cut through a coat of plates, the glaive would break before it reached a high enough threshold. But in the game mechanics riding around with a base 150ish weapon plus movement bonuses will generate values well over two hundred probably even into three hundred. This then gets reduced by a measly 48-68 depending on the armor you have and where hit which is still a kill-shot.

Not to mention that while damage and health got basically doubled from WB armor is about the same so it does make considerably less difference.

Yep - armor should well - be more protective.

Arguably low hits should do single digits, if any damage, unless it hits an area with no armor.

The PvP crowd is 100% NOT clamoring for lower armor. If anything, we want more access to equipment and thus, more armor as well.

And I think both sides of the isle want all the equipment to be *functional*.

In MP, the single-value armor rating for the entire character causes a plethora of issues, stemming from it being a static number attributed to your character regardless of what their armor value should be worth. It's simply a lack of customizability and it hurts the game.

In SP, armor is just non-functional. Pretty much any blow just tears through armor, no matter how high quality it is. This lack of functional mechanics also hurts the game.

Both need to be fixed.

Seems to me like armor needs a major across the board buff.

I'd argue that there needs to be a customizable armor for single player as well.

 

[black_bulldog]

Actually I think it is mostly damage reduction with a small percentage reduction as well It's explained better here https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...t-doesnt-work-and-how-to-make-it-work.426296/ . That's why rocks do basically the same damage against high armor as low. this system doesn't scale properly with higher amounts of damage which is why on realistic and factoring in movement bonuses everything gets one shot.

Basically a glaive in real life could never be swung with enough force to cut through a coat of plates, the glaive would break before it reached a high enough threshold. But in the game mechanics riding around with a base 150ish weapon plus movement bonuses will generate values well over two hundred probably even into three hundred. This then gets reduced by a measly 48-68 depending on the armor you have and where hit which is still a kill-shot.

Not to mention that while damage and health got basically doubled from WB armor is about the same so it does make considerably less difference.

I've seen a Rhomphaia on horse do as much damage as a couched lance well over 300. Even on foot they can easily get 150 damage. It's insane and they also get the crush through damage, so if you can't dodge an overhead swing your dead.

 

[Earth Dragon]

I've seen a Rhomphaia on horse do as much damage as a couched lance well over 300. Even on foot they can easily get 150 damage. It's insane and they also get the crush through damage, so if you can't dodge an overhead swing your dead.

Which is honestly a stupid concept. Most polearm weapons being swung versus thrusted in horseback would go flying out of your hands first swing once they hit something with little power involved after the initial impact

 

[Medivhtratos]

Yeah yeah and a Lance never breaks or get stucked in the corpse

 

[Earth Dragon]

Yeah yeah and a Lance never breaks or get stucked in the corpse

It’s one thing to not “lose your weapon during its intended use” and another to misuse a weapon and hav it be it’s most efficient use.

This would be the equivalent of a thrown arrow causing more damage then shooting one

 

[CrazyElf]

I've seen a Rhomphaia on horse do as much damage as a couched lance well over 300. Even on foot they can easily get 150 damage. It's insane and they also get the crush through damage, so if you can't dodge an overhead swing your dead.

On horse the momentum of the swing and the velocity of the horse are causing this. On top of that if the infantry are moving towards the horse, it does even more damage.

 

[Medivhtratos]

It’s one thing to not “lose your weapon during its intended use” and another to misuse a weapon and hav it be it’s most efficient use.

This would be the equivalent of a thrown arrow causing more damage then shooting one

Think we should return to the topic. Sry for misinterpreting your intentions, thought it was just another "realistic" post