The most unforgiving game?

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Sparkz

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Maybe its just me or its something I havent noticed on previous M and B versions.

The game is completely unforgiving to the extreme.

They capture you, drag you around, strip half your hard earnt expensive weapons and then when you capture them you lose honor if you dont release them when you are offered cash to release them.

Im doing the quest for the former queen of whatever its called. Taken over all of sweden with my rebels except 1 castle. That castle is really unfair, the whole place is full of reiters and swordsmen that mow down my troops like anything. The problem with that also is the enemys troops. I can wipe out 3 or 4 of their commanders but they escape... its less than a few minutes after I see them running round trying to attack 1 of my forts with 100+ troops.

Worse still since they have 1 castle left I wiped out a group of 5 or their commanders, they all escaped. I went over to their only castle right after (2 mins away) to try and attack it, as I got close and could view garrison stats of the castle I saw all 5 in there as "0/1" (fair since I wiped out their armys and them so they were not healed enough to fight). But then literally 10 seconds later as I got close enough to enter the castle all their troops (100+ each) were back and they were all at full stats.... If I got wiped out and had to start with just my own character it could well take 20 mins of game time to recover health and gain and army of 100+ troops.


Little things like that ruin the game sooo much. I would love to be able to take out the whole map, but with unfair things like that theres no chance really
 
I believe that's a bug from warband. Where you NEVER capture a person during a castle siege. At least I never have had that happen. Also, if I recall right, the units restock their troops from some script. Its not like warband where they had to visit villages and etc. (Am I wrong about that? Stopped playing F&S until the next patch is out)

But, this game really is forgiving until you get into the storyline quests. With caravans the way they are, cash is utterly meaningless.
 
In my humble opinion the game in places literally cheats to obtain an outcome. I have seen similar extremely rapid recovery of troop loss, so I checked on a few sieges closely. Without breaking the siege, I needed to retreat and attack three times, noting the enemies actually killed, twice it worked out over 50% more than was originally in the castle to start with. I also have seen a Lord gallop into his castle and straight out again with his army more than doubled, (from 30 to 80 or so), his garrison unchanged. I feel it makes the tactic of attrition almost redundant. In other cases I have surged and won with the right amount of troop loss. I am starting to think it is to guide the player on a path, making key castles etc. more difficult to get.
 
I just got head shot at the very start of the game when the enemy was on the other end of the map.  I could barely see them over a hill and 5 seconds in I die, which eventually leads to my capture.  That is bull****, because this has now happened three times since I've been playing this game.  Ridiculous.
 
Gerin said:
I just got head shot at the very start of the game when the enemy was on the other end of the map.  I could barely see them over a hill and 5 seconds in I die, which eventually leads to my capture.  That is bull****, because this has now happened three times since I've been playing this game.  Ridiculous.
Heh, been there. And more than once, sadly.

When there are a large number of enemy musketmen who are putting up a "wall of lead," then I don't mind so much when I get hit. But I hate those cases where it's only 1 or 2 pot shots from across the map, and I still get nailed. Maybe it's just me, but it actually seems to happen with Bandits more than any other troop type; and they only have handmade firearms (and < 100 firearms skill, if I remember correctly).

But yes, With Fire and Sword is definitely the most difficult (on the battlefield) M&B game to date.
 
I did not notice the caravan thingy, until I read about it here on the forums. Without limitless cash, this game is actually pretty damn hard, even with all the «easy» settings.
 
It is actually very easy to earn s**tload of money in a truly short period of time. Although you cannot enter tournaments and get as much worthy loot as you could in Warband, WFAS gives you a greater opportunity to make money: caravaneering.
 
DIABOLGROTESQUE said:
It is actually very easy to earn s**tload of money in a truly short period of time. Although you cannot enter tournaments and get as much worthy loot as you could in Warband, WFAS gives you a greater opportunity to make money: caravaneering.
I thought we were behind that? We're talking about siege difficulty.
OT: I've never been able to properly clean out the map myself, there were always some stragglers left that I'm never able to capture in any M&B, no chance at taking the last castle of a faction either, the rebounding rate is insane. How could have this been overlooked in M&B mechanics, IMHO, it's the worst fault of M&B's to date.
 
If you gather a bunch of marksmen (or swedish merc cavalry) and when sieging blow up the wall, they can be placed in front of the wall, where they can snipe off any visible guards.
This should make the actual assault a bit easier, I think. The hole-in-the-wall tactic means that your troops actually listen to you and don't storm the castle, when told to stand still.
I usually place them close to the hole and go on a solo sniping mission. I usually get shot at this point, so be careful.

Just an idea.
 
Dushatar said:
DIABOLGROTESQUE said:
It is actually very easy to earn s**tload of money in a truly short period of time. Although you cannot enter tournaments and get as much worthy loot as you could in Warband, WFAS gives you a greater opportunity to make money: caravaneering.
I thought we were behind that? We're talking about siege difficulty.
OT: I've never been able to properly clean out the map myself, there were always some stragglers left that I'm never able to capture in any M&B, no chance at taking the last castle of a faction either, the rebounding rate is insane. How could have this been overlooked in M&B mechanics, IMHO, it's the worst fault of M&B's to date.

I know it has been discussed quite a lot but with money, the game gets a lot easier. While I got literally raped by even 5 bandits in the beginning, I am now able to successfully counter something like 60 with only 20 doing most of the job myself alone and I am playing on 102% difficulty (I don't know why it is not 100 but 102).

On the other hand, I must admit that I am still trying to build up my stats such as leadership and companion stats such as architecture. In other words, I still have not gone into any conquering business. I have already got proposals from all factions about becoming a vassal for them but turned down all of them so far. This being said, I still don't have any idea as to how difficult it might get when I engage in conquests.

So, don't get me wrong. I kinda rushed in with my caravaneering comment but having gone so far into the game, maybe your remarks gotta be more meaningful.

That was what I feared and it is also why I am still playing the independent leader. I guess I will start the real deal only after I get all necessary stats and upgrade the gear of my companions to the fullest.
 
Dushatar said:
DIABOLGROTESQUE said:
It is actually very easy to earn s**tload of money in a truly short period of time. Although you cannot enter tournaments and get as much worthy loot as you could in Warband, WFAS gives you a greater opportunity to make money: caravaneering.
I thought we were behind that? We're talking about siege difficulty.
OT: I've never been able to properly clean out the map myself, there were always some stragglers left that I'm never able to capture in any M&B, no chance at taking the last castle of a faction either, the rebounding rate is insane. How could have this been overlooked in M&B mechanics, IMHO, it's the worst fault of M&B's to date.

I agree completely.

Its somewhat like the game isnt designed to be completed. Surely that could of been better if it was integrated and made so the game actually wanted you to complete it (and get some ending dialogue) cause as a loyal M+B player I have played 1000's of hours on each M+B but never captured everything on any of them, would be a lot satisfying if I could and then move onto the next chapter.
 
Sparkz said:
Dushatar said:
DIABOLGROTESQUE said:
It is actually very easy to earn s**tload of money in a truly short period of time. Although you cannot enter tournaments and get as much worthy loot as you could in Warband, WFAS gives you a greater opportunity to make money: caravaneering.
I thought we were behind that? We're talking about siege difficulty.
OT: I've never been able to properly clean out the map myself, there were always some stragglers left that I'm never able to capture in any M&B, no chance at taking the last castle of a faction either, the rebounding rate is insane. How could have this been overlooked in M&B mechanics, IMHO, it's the worst fault of M&B's to date.

I agree completely.

Its somewhat like the game isnt designed to be completed. Surely that could of been better if it was integrated and made so the game actually wanted you to complete it (and get some ending dialogue) cause as a loyal M+B player I have played 1000's of hours on each M+B but never captured everything on any of them, would be a lot satisfying if I could and then move onto the next chapter.

I've managed to clear out a faction or two in the old m&b-s, but haven't gotten that far in WFaS yet.
The thing is that the less cities your enemy has, the more lords are protecting each one of them. Some lords, of course, disappear in time for one reason or another, but ultimately in the last city you'll be likely facing the wrath of many parties at once.
 
tarakan said:
I've managed to clear out a faction or two in the old m&b-s, but haven't gotten that far in WFaS yet.
The thing is that the less cities your enemy has, the more lords are protecting each one of them. Some lords, of course, disappear in time for one reason or another, but ultimately in the last city you'll be likely facing the wrath of many parties at once.
Or they all decide to go and lay siege.
 
Honestly, I'm having a difficult time getting any start on WF&S. Every time I start to do ok I get crushed back into the stoneage. Even the easiest settings are being brutal. Is there some sort of trick I'm missing?
 
Well, the only solution at this pint is to save every 2,5 seconds :p Never go into battle without saving, never travel with a caravan without saving, never leave a town without saving, never... Well basically, first thing you should do when you get out of bed iun the morning is to open M&B and SAVE!
 
Another important thing to remmeber is,
that you should be really careful in battle...
this isn´t M&B Warband, where you could lead your cavalry into the midsts of the battle
and be sure to come out of it with barely a scratch...
in this game, even with the best armor available you can expect to go down after 2-3 hits with a musket...
even worse with the armor you have at the beginning, which is only good against melee weapons
and cannot prevent that even a single hit with a firearm knocks you out.

In this game it is a rather wise move, to lead your troops from behind,
concentrating on directing your troops and only take the occasional potshot at targets
(well, at least till you have armor that can stand more than a single hit :wink: )
 
Still doesn't prevent them from targeting you.  Yes, it's safer, but I've still been one shotted from clear across the map.  The safest battles are ones which you join with other lords present.  Let them charge in first, and get your troops back to snipe the enemy.
 
Gerin said:
Still doesn't prevent them from targeting you.  Yes, it's safer, but I've still been one shotted from clear across the map.  The safest battles are ones which you join with other lords present.  Let them charge in first, and get your troops back to snipe the enemy.

Usually they concentrate on the first target that presents itself...
if you are the person that gets seen first by the enemy soldiers, you will be the target of all enemy musketmen

so it is better to let your soldiers move forward (into the enemy visibility range)
while yourself stay back,
as then they will concentrate tgheir fire on your soldiers instead of you
(after the shooting has begun, you cayn safely move forward again and fight together with the ofters)

(be careful if you use WMDs hoiwever (so called grenades)...if you wound/kill multiple soldiers at once,
a lot of enemy soldiers might switch their targets to you :wink: )
 
Ceriy said:
tarakan said:
I've managed to clear out a faction or two in the old m&b-s, but haven't gotten that far in WFaS yet.
The thing is that the less cities your enemy has, the more lords are protecting each one of them. Some lords, of course, disappear in time for one reason or another, but ultimately in the last city you'll be likely facing the wrath of many parties at once.
Or they all decide to go and lay siege.

Well, I guess it's a good thing that one ~100 head party cannot possibly win at a siege. If they come en masse on one of your places, you're screwed.
 
Proteus said:
In this game it is a rather wise move, to lead your troops from behind,
concentrating on directing your troops and only take the occasional potshot at targets
(well, at least till you have armor that can stand more than a single hit :wink: )

Which is slightly boring... if I want to be the armchair general, I'll play Total War games.

The most fun parts of the M&B games (for me) is being in the heat of the battle, because they're some of the few games that actually let you do this.
 
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