The most profitable way...

[Untitled.]

Are your garrisons made out of the lowest tier units? AI armies keep away mostly due to numbers, not quality. I suggest you keep your own party with slightly better troops, but the backbone of your garrisons should be made out of low-level levies.

 

[Mooncabbage]

However, if you win a battle (a good battle) and you get loot, you should get mail and horses, which easily (to sell) should give more that 12.000 k, no?

If you win a epic battle vs lord, you should get loot by more than that.

Well the first problem is you can only carry so much loot. Even fighting dena raiders, you rarely get very much chain. The more people involved in the fight, the less the player's cut seems to be. The second part of the problem is the cash on hand the merchants have. Even visiting all 4 merchants in a city, you can only expect to offload about 6000 worth of goods. I was very lucky, and in a recent battle against Frankish Pirates I took a suit of Lordly Lamellar or whatever it is. It'd sell for 10k, but no merchant in the game has that kind of money. I have no companions I'd care to equip with it, as they're all equipped with heavy armour, except for my archers, who suffer too many penalties even from medium armour for it to be worthwhile. Basically I'm stuck with it until I find some high price item I want from a merchant, and given that most of the equipment I have, while not top of the line, is pretty good, it seems like a waste to spend 30k so I can use the 10k to make up the cash on a 40k suit of armour.

If you disband them you won`t be able to hire them back in this game. You will get only limited amount of untrained peasants from the village.

Yes, naturally the game will never be 100% realism.
You don't need to keep a hugeass war party at all times, though. Because that makes no sense for your economy. If you get into a tight corner you can get new recruits fairly easily (they're quite effective in this mod) or alternatively hire mercenaries if you're desperate.

The issue at hand has been criticized earlier and Idibil has stated that he clearly does not want to make it easy for the player to obtain an army as large as the enemy lords have that easily. It might be a little irritating at times, but it also means the mod needs more time to be played through, which is good.

I agree it makes no sense to maintain a huge army at all times. Unfortunately it takes a VERY long time to train up the frankly crappy first tier units you get. Even as a level 20 character, which means I can train troops past the first two tiers with my training skill, it just takes an incredibly long time. I have probably 60 recruits, and I get thousands of experience a day, but that translates to only 1 or 2 upgrades a day. Then there is the additional cost of training and equipping the troops, ie., the upgrade costs. To get from first tier to second tier, it costs you 50, so across 60 guys that's 3000. If you manage to drum up an army of 300, just getting them all from first to second tier is going to set you back 15000 alone. Disbanding your army isn't something you want to do on a regular basis.

I've actually thought a few times, it'd be nice if there were mercenary camps like in WFaS, but perhaps inside of castles you own. That way you can set the equipment your men have, raise them reasonably quickly, and disbanding them isn't such a fuss.

 

[Untitled.]

Oh yeah, I forgot that the upgrade cost is cumulative. Well, with all the more reason you shouldn't upgrade your garrison. Naturally, there's a small risk in it since when someone actually does besiege your castle your stuck with a lot of semi-efficient troops. But that's a charm, isn't it? I like having to choose the better out of two bad choices.
I can see that with AI armies having a lot of med.-heavy tier infantry it gives the player a feeling of the AI cheating through the game, but I'm hoping some of the rough edges would be smoothened out before Idibil and the devs stop working on this.

 

[Mooncabbage]

I dislike the entire first tier of infantry. They just don't make sense for this period. It might make some sense for the medieval period, but I've not once heard of a bunch of dudes with primative pitchforks and clubs and rocks taking part in major battles or joining armies. I think you should atleast be able to recruit second tier troops automatically. It just makes more sense for the period. How many dudes are going to sign up as warriors without atleast a seax, a cheapass spear and a shield. Those things were very common, almost all men would have had them. I don't think it was until after the Norman Conquest that serfdom got properly underway. At this time I believe farmers and the rest of the lower caste were predominatly free men, and would have had to defend their land against raiders and the like.

 

[saxon80]

income from villages etc. is ok, but cities should definatly give more money.

Also is the income roughly the same for every city? Or are there top earners & low income cities?

 

[Untitled.]

There are richer cities, just like there are richer villages. This should affect tax income if I've understood it correctly.

@Cabbage: Yes, most peasants were free men during this period. But the first tier becomes somewhat effective due to the fact that they often wield axes that do piercing damage which just happens to be oh so effective against med. infantry and anything above that. Also, it's possible to skip the first tier sometimes, but only if your relation with the village is good enough.
Are you suggesting the first tier infantry should be made more proficient as to reflect the era?

 

[Mooncabbage]

If the first tier were equipped with shields, spears, seaxes and maybe bent javelins than yes, that would be totally acceptable. They don't need to have armour, and they don't even have to be good. I just think that peasant farmers are wrong for the period. Also I vaguely recall from watching a show about the battle of hastings, a section about the makeup of the shield wall. The front rank would be the wealthiest, best armoured men, with the rear ranks made up of lighter troops, who could fight over the men in front.

I don't mind farmers remaining farmers however.

Btw I haven't noticed first tier recruits with axes, but I do remember doing a tax collection run, angering the peasants and in the fight it was much more dangerous than usual as they had knives and proper weapons, I was nearly overrun. Luckily I got to have my companions with me.

 

[Rigor]

I don't have much problem with this. I own one town as a vasal and I lose 12500/week acording to budget. I have 730 men in that castle. Just stay away from cavlary and make sure you have enterprises in your fraction towns. The enterprises should give you 400-600/week each, and tough it would take a long time to regain the invested funds, it's a great way to reduce support costs over time. Trading is also easy. Even without trading skill you can buy cheap minerals and silver in Wales and travel to dorce ceaster and sell it for a fortune. One you fight off a lord in a battle, you get battle trophies. Always loot those as they pay a fortune in the market place. Prisoners are easier to take (and in larger volumes once you have a big army) and they pay more.

I agree that the rents and tariffs are at native levels, while wages have increased by 5 times. I don't see this as a huge problem tough, since money is easy to get once you learn how. I have other issues of the game that I struggle harder with, but I find them enjoyabel. 

 

[Sobakozoid]

Maybe there is some kinda bug.
After i started this angry topic, i've lost 40-50 troops in battle... and wages drop from 11'000 to 6'500. 
That is very strange, because i certainly did not have troops with 100+/per unit.

But anyway... i disagree that money in Brytenwalda are easy to get. Or maybe yes it is easy to get, but wages is cruel, which makes all your income looks very low.

 

[YourStepDad]

Agree, mod is not balanced. I have 1 city, 2 castles, 7 villages, 5 enterprises and I can`t feed summary 500 soldiers situated in garrisons! I have budget deficit about -5000 every week. Mills give only 5% additional profit. If village gives you 750 shilingas, you will get 37 more. It`s ridiculous!

Disagreed. I am the lord of Seaoburh(or something like that) and all of it's surrounding villages. I have had around 400 soldiers to maintain and I still got a steady income of 2000 scillingas.

@To thread poster

Think before you criticize the mod.

 

[NacroxNicke]

A dead soldier doesn't need to get paid 

 

[Rigor]

Maybe there is some kinda bug.
After i started this angry topic, i've lost 40-50 troops in battle... and wages drop from 11'000 to 6'500. 
That is very strange, because i certainly did not have troops with 100+/per unit.

But anyway... i disagree that money in Brytenwalda are easy to get. Or maybe yes it is easy to get, but wages is cruel, which makes all your income looks very low.

Unless you garisoned your troops, increased leadership to 10 or lost 50 cavalery, I can't explain that.

Just now I pulled out 200 soldiers from my town and attacked a nearby lord who came to close to my home. That fight cost me one light infantrist as dead, and 20 medium infantrists as wounded. Paid 10-11k in trophies, ransoms and loot. I'd say it's managebel. Large armies usually had to keep moving or they'd run out of food. Just look at it that way. You have to keep fighting in order to support your men. 

 

[Untitled.]

Actually large armies usually supplied before they left. It was only after Napoleon that large armies began scavenging.

Also, just wondering, how did you lose only 21 troops? I don't think I've ever won a lord with so small losses.

 

[Mooncabbage]

Actually large armies usually supplied before they left. It was only after Napoleon that large armies began scavenging.

I don't think that's true. Foraging was part of warfare in the 100 years war for example. In fact in was Napoleon who revolutionised and modernised the supply of ammunition and other supplies to armies (Napoleonics are sort of my main area of expertise).

 

[Valhalxx]

Hi

Been a lurker for some time but finally I came out of the bushes.
First of all a great thanks to the moder(s) for this mod, which has given me endless hours of enjoyment 

In regards to how one can save money and maintain a larger force I personally use Mercenary Captains for this.

The only real use i see to this units, is that you don't pay any upkeep to the units that you station with the Merc Captain.

In my current game, the Merc Captain can hold about 50 troops, and each day, before the weekly payment, I transfer my most expensive troops to him, and then pay the weeks upkeep (saving thousends), and then gather the whole army again after that - until next weekly payment.

I cant keep more than one Merc captain in the field but it can still pay off. I have Cavalry units so I save about 3000-4000 each week.

Merc Captains are pretty expensive to hire but I look to them as an investment, which will pay off over time. It wont save your budget overall, but it still helps.

Cheers

 

[Mooncabbage]

It's interesting what you say about mercenary captains. I haven't used them yet myself, because you seem only to be able to hire quite a lot of them at one time. I probably could afford them now. It does seem like a bit of an exploit to save money by assigning troops to mercenary captains. Still, if that works for you maybe it suggests that upkeep prices need to be lowered?

 

[Valhalxx]

Yes it feel a little like exploiting, but in lack of a better solution (lower wages), i have learned to live with it.

Besides they are expensive troops, and some weeks will pass before u make a saving overall. I also think their unit capacity increases with ur renown but im unsure about it.

 

[Shaxx]

If you have enough enterprises that is a good start, they are better than villages/castles, which is kind off odd... but they work. Then try to take a town, and then protect caravan traffic. I set up my last court in Lundenwic and received 10-20,000 gold from tariffs every week. That along with 15 enterprises, 10 looting, 10 trade, 7 inventory management... money was not a problem.

I still think enterprises need an inefficiency system, or have fiefs give more income to put balance between the two.

 

[Mooncabbage]

I still think enterprises need an inefficiency system, or have fiefs give more income to put balance between the two.

Seconded. The difficulty is striking a balance between intro difficulty level (ie. how hard it is with basic skills, how much cash you need to sink into enterprises etc to set it up), and not making it super easy at high level. You have to maintain a challenge throughout, and still give a tangible sense of reward and progression. That's something that's very difficult to do. Oblivion for example, auto-leveled your encounters, so you leveled up, you got better gear, but you never really experienced any sense of achievement or advancement because the world leveled with you. Pacing is a real problem for any non-linear gaming experience, and when you take your hands off and let players run wild like M&B and it's mods attempt to do, it becomes even harder.

 

[King Ragnarok]

Personally, i cheat if i need something