The many issues i see with cavalry in MP

Maxoule22

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Multiplayer is dead, the only players remaining are the Cavalry lovers.

Here is a list of multiple issues i've observed, from the point of view of a infantry always using a spear as a second weapon :

-Speed doesnt affect the damage they receive, only affect the damage they deal
-Their hitbox is too large, they hit completely off-aim and it still lands the blows
-The hitbox of their shields are way too large, sometimes it feels like it blocks 360 degrees around them
-Horses have way too much HP and/or armor. Horses should get oneshotted by a clear spear HIT.
-When horses are close to infantry, its almost impossible to land any hit on the cavalry because we are "too close" all the time.
-Any unit can mount a horse
-Knock downs are sucking all the fun from being a infantry.
-Whenever you knock a cavalry down his horse, they get knocked so far they are safe all the time
-Cavalry riders have way too much armor, once they get knocked down their horses, they turn into a overboosted terminator infantry sort of like a legionary or sergent. Just like Archers are mostly weak in melee, Riders should turn into a weakling when they lose their main advantage = the horse.
-Their spear easily outreach the spears of infantry, which makes 0 sense whatsover.

-Sometimes you start hearing the sound of the horse when they are already so close from you, you dont even have the time to turn around.
 

Lady_Aliena!

Knight
WB
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"Just like Archers are mostly weak in melee, Riders should turn into a weakling when they lose their main advantage = the horse. "

I believe that there should be a chance for an equal fight, but only if the conditions allow the rider.

It seems to me that this should be regulated only by a lot of perks (for example, a player without a shield) and class (I believe that cheap cavalry should be able to fend for itself, but without the equipment that the infantry has (for example, weak shields, but not weapons)). Heavy cavalry really should be without benefits, but only because their equipment is intended only for riding.
 
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Mlloy

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Unseating people from their horses should cause damage based on the distance launched and what they hit and I think that would fix it
 

shatti

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let's not balance the units like a total war game,
heavy cav riders should have the best equipment
but i agree with the most of things in the OP,
spears needs to be deadly to them,
the horses should die from a spear thrust
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
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Unseating people from their horses should cause damage based on the distance launched and what they hit and I think that would fix it
it would force people to dismount preemptively and playing dismounted cav isnt exactly fun
 

bblzd

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M&B
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I think if you played more cav you would realize most of these are incorrect and cav are not as strong as you've made them out to be in your mind.

Momentum damage does work both ways and be easily confirmed through game play. No point arguing about that since the momentum multiplier even appears in the combat log and without it we can still see horses taking extra damage from arrows, other cav, and yes even spears and pikes.

In Captain Mode cav have a lot less units and in Skirmish they cost a lot more gold. They should have some advantages, though currently they can be countered by any class in the game including lowly peasants with a pitchfork, grounded spears, pikes, throwables, archers and other cav.
 

artiedee

Recruit
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We just need a horse deterrent like spear bracing, instead of reworking the existing balance give us a solid tool to deal with cav.
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
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I think if you played more cav you would realize most of these are incorrect and cav are not as strong as you've made them out to be in your mind.

Momentum damage does work both ways and be easily confirmed through game play. No point arguing about that since the momentum multiplier even appears in the combat log and without it we can still see horses taking extra damage from arrows, other cav, and yes even spears and pikes.

In Captain Mode cav have a lot less units and in Skirmish they cost a lot more gold. They should have some advantages, though currently they can be countered by any class in the game including lowly peasants with a pitchfork, grounded spears, pikes, throwables, archers and other cav.
This
 

Virthuss

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Agree about the horse HP, I loved Napoleonic wars for that. Now the horses get arrows in the head and they don't give a flying ****. It's unfair for infantry, a horse should not be able to take stay still next to infantrymen without taking a big risk.
 

Tacostrom

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I think if you played more cav you would realize most of these are incorrect and cav are not as strong as you've made them out to be in your mind.

Momentum damage does work both ways and be easily confirmed through game play. No point arguing about that since the momentum multiplier even appears in the combat log and without it we can still see horses taking extra damage from arrows, other cav, and yes even spears and pikes.

In Captain Mode cav have a lot less units and in Skirmish they cost a lot more gold. They should have some advantages, though currently they can be countered by any class in the game including lowly peasants with a pitchfork, grounded spears, pikes, throwables, archers and other cav.
Completely disagree. You make it sound like any class can instantly crush cav. In Bannerlord, unlike Warband, you can only rear cav by stabbing the horse directly in the face which is easily avoided if the cav user has at least 1 braincell. The only players who are letting their horses get stabbed in the face are those who are looking to couch lance off cooldown (bad players), good cav players will poke and prod you at a distance, they don't have to commit to an engagement if they don't want to. This is even easier to do now since cav is so much more manoeuvrable in Bannerlord.

Yes momentum works against cav as well as infantry, but the problem is how much hp horses currently have and how spears cannot counter them as well as they did in warband. TW can either lower the armor values of heavy cav, cav hp, or buff polearms against cav. Or they can turn down how easily cav can knock down infantry. I think you need to play more of the game as infantry against some actual good cav players to get an idea how easily cav can decimate infantry.

They only need to make a slight change to make cav better to play against instead of the current state of the game which is impatiently waiting for the cav user to make a mistake.
 

WarMir

Regular
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I think if you played more cav you would realize most of these are incorrect and cav are not as strong as you've made them out to be in your mind.

Momentum damage does work both ways and be easily confirmed through game play. No point arguing about that since the momentum multiplier even appears in the combat log and without it we can still see horses taking extra damage from arrows, other cav, and yes even spears and pikes.

In Captain Mode cav have a lot less units and in Skirmish they cost a lot more gold. They should have some advantages, though currently they can be countered by any class in the game including lowly peasants with a pitchfork, grounded spears, pikes, throwables, archers and other cav.
This is how it is in Captain Mode.

I personally enjoy killing cavalry, it is so easy with spears.
The only annoyance is if they have bows so it takes a bit more to get to them (switching between shield wall and line formation).

Good i did not play Warband so i dont have to compare both styles.

How are archers weak in melee lol plebs
Yeah, try to fight Khan`s Guards with Glaive, they are like units from Hell!
 
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Lord Bryggan

Squire
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In siege I always saw cav just walking through large enemy mobs and generally able to force their way through. And in captain mode cav regularly force their way through infantry squares.

Once a horse has lost momentum infantry should be able to wreck them.
 

Arcas Nebun

Section Moderator
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As an archer player, I find cavalry easier targets than infantry and even other archers (depending on the skill). That is, if I can see them coming. The only problem that I see with them and you pointed out is the sound cue. Yes, you hear them usually too late to do much, especially if they are experienced players.
 

WarMir

Regular
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In siege I always saw cav just walking through large enemy mobs and generally able to force their way through. And in captain mode cav regularly force their way through infantry squares.

Once a horse has lost momentum infantry should be able to wreck them.
In Captain Mode is enough to press F1, F3 when cav is coming and use Line Formation, not Square Formation.
 

Gibby Jr

Marquis
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don't know why you keep trolling at this point.

I think if you played more cav you would realize most of these are incorrect and cav are not as strong as you've made them out to be in your mind.

Momentum damage does work both ways and be easily confirmed through game play. No point arguing about that since the momentum multiplier even appears in the combat log and without it we can still see horses taking extra damage from arrows, other cav, and yes even spears and pikes.

In Captain Mode cav have a lot less units and in Skirmish they cost a lot more gold. They should have some advantages, though currently they can be countered by any class in the game including lowly peasants with a pitchfork, grounded spears, pikes, throwables, archers and other cav.
I have played a lot of cav and in public play you're basically invulnerable - i can rack up 15+ kills every pub game. In organised clan matches, cavalry also dominates: the entire pace, location and timing of the fight is decided by cavalry. They dominate its duration too, with both sides relying on their cavalry to bump the other team's players, since infantry have no way to force kills themselves in BL.

I made a thread last August on class balance - all of the cavalry strengths remain in place - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/b0-1-0-infantry-ranger-and-cavalry-balance.386380/

90% of the issues I point out there still remain, and it is still true that cavalry is very easy to balance. Yes, it's easy - tons of ways to balance it have been discussed over and over dozens of times already. The main few I'd like to see are:
Bump duration reduction - when horses knock people over they are down for a very long time, enough time that as cavalry you can bumpstab someone then stab them twice on the floor before they can stand up (this is enough to kill most classes without them being able to fight back). It also gives too much room for teammates to hit the person on the floor. The knockdown duration should be much less than it currently is.
Horses rearing when they run into walls/objects - this will make cavalry have to play more carefully/at a higher skill level, actually requiring them to avoid walls rather than just gliding off of them.
Horses (particularly heavy horses) taking more damage than they currently do when standing still - this will prevent cavalry from hanging around groups of ground troops as closely as they currently can/do.
Infinite couch lance fixes - it definitely needs a cooldown of some kind, so cavalry can't keep instantly using it. I'd also like a flat damage reduction on couches, since it's a guaranteed 1 hit kill at the moment.
Riders should stand up slower than they currently do - right now if a rider is dismounted, they leap to their feet extremely quickly and can even block as they do so, essentially meaning there is no punishment for getting dismounted.

These are a few of the main points I made on the balance thread in August. None of these things have been changed. Cavalry still dominate gameplay.

I am of course only talking about skirmish with the above observations.
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
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True, but you are very obviously trolling.
they changed rider blocking (its still fast but you can block anymore while totally lying on the ground)

But argueing against this is obv just braindead.