The logic for this game

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It's a casual Saturday, I am drinking my beer and think about the logic of this game

Goals ------- what you got to do to achieve that goal
To conquer the world ------ you got to build a strong kingdom
To build a strong kingdom ----- you got to convince as many lords as you can, basically every lords to join you
To convince lords to join you ----- you got to build high relationship with them
To build high relationship with them ----- you got to catch and release them 5 times at least (each time 6-8 points relationship, total 30 points is minimum)
So you got to become their enemy and defeat them as many times as you can.
The more you beat the lords, the best buddy you will get with them

To conquer Kuzait, I need to join N Empire first and beat all the Kuzait lords, conquer many fiefs, then convince their lords to join my kingdom

"IF you can't beat them, join them" ---- I guess that's true for this game

lol What a weird thing, isn't is
hahahahah
 
I've never wanted to conquer the world myself, maybe as consortium ? but not important. Establishing a kingdom in a realistic type of world is more important. trying to do this alone .. is very difficult. Lone wolfs don't live very long, there's always a bigger wolf or wolf pack.

.
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
I never paythrough long enough to conquer the world.

I enjoy the establishment phases. Once I'm a king or emperor, I get bored and start again.

At the moment I'm working on solo speed runs. How quickly can I get married, have a child, rescue my family... solo. I'm down to under a year - time moves slowly when you have to fight every band of looters.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
It makes me think of when people say something like "You can't just cut everyone's head off to make yourself look taller" or something, that's absolutely the optimal Bannerlord strategy, instead of making a kingdom and vassals, just eliminate all other kingdom's vassals. Instead of making a big bulky army destroy the ability of the enemy to assemble big armies. Instead of capturing and defending fiefs, you have no fief and no weakness for them to attack. By being the last clan on the map you take the entire world at once and click up to kingdom and put in some good policies. The only thing missing is a way to make even more clans or spouses to let the game keep going if you wanted. Rebels can spawn but they got no womanz. I suppose that's were your daughters/sister come in handy though. That's even supposing you can peace out with rebels once they pass 30 days, I think they can re-start a normal faction but I'm not sure. I have a save to mess around but I'm being lazy and it AOE4 stress test time too.
 
I've never wanted to conquer the world myself, maybe as consortium ? but not important. Establishing a kingdom in a realistic type of world is more important. trying to do this alone .. is very difficult. Lone wolfs don't live very long, there's always a bigger wolf or wolf pack.

.
yes, and that's exactly my points, you need all the lords to join your kingdom, to become strong enough to defend your fiefs

therefore you need good relationship with them, or you have enough $$$ to bribe them to join you.
I have spend 150 days and only make half millions, so based on this rate, I need at least 5 millions to declare self independnce, so I need at least to spend 1500 days to accumulate $$ and build relationship with lords
 
I never paythrough long enough to conquer the world.

I enjoy the establishment phases. Once I'm a king or emperor, I get bored and start again.

At the moment I'm working on solo speed runs. How quickly can I get married, have a child, rescue my family... solo. I'm down to under a year - time moves slowly when you have to fight every band of looters.
yeah but don't you feel so tired?? and bored?
its a big map, you lead a 20+ peasant party to battle with 20+ looters
same map, same formation, charge, you are too slow, your armor is too weak, your swing doesn't hit, your arrow shoot miss

I just feel like the early stage of game is so boring, and so difficult, becuase you have to spend so much time on these chores
these chores task will destroy your gaming experience

on the other hand, being a king and lead an army to conquror a fief is much more satisfying hahahah
 
It makes me think of when people say something like "You can't just cut everyone's head off to make yourself look taller" or something, that's absolutely the optimal Bannerlord strategy, instead of making a kingdom and vassals, just eliminate all other kingdom's vassals. Instead of making a big bulky army destroy the ability of the enemy to assemble big armies. Instead of capturing and defending fiefs, you have no fief and no weakness for them to attack. By being the last clan on the map you take the entire world at once and click up to kingdom and put in some good policies. The only thing missing is a way to make even more clans or spouses to let the game keep going if you wanted. Rebels can spawn but they got no womanz. I suppose that's were your daughters/sister come in handy though. That's even supposing you can peace out with rebels once they pass 30 days, I think they can re-start a normal faction but I'm not sure. I have a save to mess around but I'm being lazy and it AOE4 stress test time too.
oh I am very exciting about AOE4 too, I been playing AOE since kid in the 2000s hahaha

it's fun game, I really wish Microsoft can really spend some time to adopt some new model, some new graphic,

but Anyway, your strategy "kill every vassals" isn't practical, executing lords will drop relationship HUGE
and sooner or later you need these lords to join you and become part of your kingdom

if you kill every one, then who is going to governer all the town?? to your self? to your own family?
well unless you play 20 years in game time, otherwise you don't have enough offsprings to grow up and govern these fiefs
 

Antaeus

Sergeant at Arms
yeah but don't you feel so tired?? and bored?
its a big map, you lead a 20+ peasant party to battle with 20+ looters
same map, same formation, charge, you are too slow, your armor is too weak, your swing doesn't hit, your arrow shoot miss

I just feel like the early stage of game is so boring, and so difficult, becuase you have to spend so much time on these chores
these chores task will destroy your gaming experience

on the other hand, being a king and lead an army to conquror a fief is much more satisfying hahahah

I see it as the opposite... Once I am king or emperor, every battle is the same. Over and over. With no objective other than win the next battle. By then I have virtually unlimited cash and influence. So this is where boredom kicks in, and no number of extra fiefs changes the pattern.

On the other hand, when you are establishing you start by yourself with almost no gear. Your character has low archery skills and slow hand speed, so you have to play a certain way - fast to shoot, but keep distance. There is actually a chance you might lose a battle.

Then when you get better gear and you start to level up you can be a little more Rambo, but not too much because 20 looters can mob an OP character. You might still get beaten and lose those 100 Askar horses. But taking on 20 looters solo with an OP axe is probably the best this game gets. How many can you kill with a single blow? How many deaths does it take to make them run? Can you kill enough with your axe to make them flee before they overwhelm you with stones?

Then you build a small party, and you again change the way you fight - to improve your party.

Then you go mercenary, and you play differently again because faction parties don't rush you.

Then you join or create a faction and you play differently again - you can make or join armies.

Each time I tell myself - maybe this time I'll take the map. But then I get bored and start again. You might find this phase satisfying... each to their own.
 
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five bucks

Squire
I don't like the thing of defeating and releasing lords to gain relation as the most viable way to progress either and haven't liked it since Warband. It's weird that you can attack someone when they say "I don't want to come to blows", then kill their thousand man strong army, kill their family members, and take their fief in a siege, and they end up liking you more than they did before, solely because you let them go.

It should work more like this:
* Attacking a lord instantly reduces your relation by -5. Being attacked by a lord, and defending yourself, does not change your relation.
* When you win, if the lord is Cowardly or Calculating, you gain +3 relations (to indicate that they become afraid of you, and wish to be on good terms with a superior fighter). If they are Foolhardy then you lose -1 extra relations for beating them (holding the grudge). Then, if you choose to release them, you get +4 relations. This is not enough to cover the relation loss if you attacked a lord who is not Cowardly or Calculating, so you will end up with net -1 relations. However, if they attacked you, and you show mercy by releasing them, you do gain net +5 relations.
* Imprisoning is -10 relations.
* Releasing after attacking is kept as a viable option by the fact that even though you end up with net negative relations (-1) against most lords, you'll get much less relation penalty than if you imprisoned them (-15, which can add up). You also gain Mercy, of course.

And in order for the player to be able recruit clans if/when they decide to secede from their faction:
* Traits have more influence in generating relation, so that having an Honorable reputation makes Honorable lords from every faction like you a lot more, having a reputation for winning lots of battles makes Brave lords like you a lot more, etc. If you are known to be Honorable, Brave, Generous, Merciful and Renowned by the time you leave your faction to start a new kingdom, and have also built up just a little relation with various nobles, you should have no difficulty in finding clans willing to join you. (Or if you're roleplaying a bad guy who's an ******* to everyone and exploits people greedily for every penny, you should at least be rich enough to buy them off)

So even if you're defeating enemy clans in battle and dropping relations with most of them by -1 each time, if you're cultivating a good reputation for being honest, generous, brave, merciful etc., which is also boosted from the very battles you beat them in, that should be enough to offset the small losses and make it possible to recruit them without massive cost; and it also will be easy as it is now to recruit clans if you're beating up the Cowardly/Calculating lords who are a part of them, because they will tell their clan "if you can't beat em, join em".
 
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I don't like the thing of defeating and releasing lords to gain relation as the most viable way to progress either and haven't liked it since Warband. It's weird that you can attack someone when they say "I don't want to come to blows", then kill their thousand man strong army, kill their family members, and take their fief in a siege, and they end up liking you more than they did before, solely because you let them go.

It should work more like this:
* Attacking a lord instantly reduces your relation by -5. Being attacked by a lord, and defending yourself, does not change your relation.
* When you win, if the lord is Cowardly or Calculating, you gain +3 relations (to indicate that they become afraid of you, and wish to be on good terms with a superior fighter). If they are Foolhardy then you lose -1 extra relations for beating them (holding the grudge). Then, if you choose to release them, you get +4 relations. This is not enough to cover the relation loss if you attacked a lord who is not Cowardly or Calculating, so you will end up with net -1 relations. However, if they attacked you, and you show mercy by releasing them, you do gain net +5 relations.
* Imprisoning is -10 relations.
* Releasing after attacking is kept as a viable option by the fact that even though you end up with net negative relations (-1) against most lords, you'll get much less relation penalty than if you imprisoned them (-15, which can add up). You also gain Mercy, of course.

And in order for the player to be able recruit clans if/when they decide to secede from their faction:
* Traits have more influence in generating relation, so that having an Honorable reputation makes Honorable lords from every faction like you a lot more, having a reputation for winning lots of battles makes Brave lords like you a lot more, etc. If you are known to be Honorable, Brave, Generous, Merciful and Renowned by the time you leave your faction to start a new kingdom, and have also built up just a little relation with various nobles, you should have no difficulty in finding clans willing to join you. (Or if you're roleplaying a bad guy who's an ******* to everyone you should be rich enough to buy them off)

So even if you're defeating enemy clans in battle and dropping relations with most of them by -1 each time, if you're cultivating a good reputation for being honest, generous, brave, merciful etc., which is also boosted from the very battles you beat them in, that should be enough to offset the small losses and make it possible to recruit them without massive cost; and it also will be easy as it is now to recruit clans if you're beating up the Cowardly/Calculating lords who are a part of them, because they will tell their clan "if you can't beat em, join em".
that's very good system, I hope developer can see this and adopt it
I agree the current system is defacted, its' jjust too simple, doesn't care about personal personality at all
 
I don't like the thing of defeating and releasing lords to gain relation as the most viable way to progress either and haven't liked it since Warband. It's weird that you can attack someone when they say "I don't want to come to blows", then kill their thousand man strong army, kill their family members, and take their fief in a siege, and they end up liking you more than they did before, solely because you let them go.

It should work more like this:
* Attacking a lord instantly reduces your relation by -5. Being attacked by a lord, and defending yourself, does not change your relation.
* When you win, if the lord is Cowardly or Calculating, you gain +3 relations (to indicate that they become afraid of you, and wish to be on good terms with a superior fighter). If they are Foolhardy then you lose -1 extra relations for beating them (holding the grudge). Then, if you choose to release them, you get +4 relations. This is not enough to cover the relation loss if you attacked a lord who is not Cowardly or Calculating, so you will end up with net -1 relations. However, if they attacked you, and you show mercy by releasing them, you do gain net +5 relations.
* Imprisoning is -10 relations.
* Releasing after attacking is kept as a viable option by the fact that even though you end up with net negative relations (-1) against most lords, you'll get much less relation penalty than if you imprisoned them (-15, which can add up). You also gain Mercy, of course.

And in order for the player to be able recruit clans if/when they decide to secede from their faction:
* Traits have more influence in generating relation, so that having an Honorable reputation makes Honorable lords from every faction like you a lot more, having a reputation for winning lots of battles makes Brave lords like you a lot more, etc. If you are known to be Honorable, Brave, Generous, Merciful and Renowned by the time you leave your faction to start a new kingdom, and have also built up just a little relation with various nobles, you should have no difficulty in finding clans willing to join you. (Or if you're roleplaying a bad guy who's an ******* to everyone you should be rich enough to buy them off)

So even if you're defeating enemy clans in battle and dropping relations with most of them by -1 each time, if you're cultivating a good reputation for being honest, generous, brave, merciful etc., which is also boosted from the very battles you beat them in, that should be enough to offset the small losses and make it possible to recruit them without massive cost; and it also will be easy as it is now to recruit clans if you're beating up the Cowardly/Calculating lords who are a part of them, because they will tell their clan "if you can't beat em, join em".

hmmm, but when you are high level, high skills, then it is more satisfying to kill high tier troops, not just looters
you can try to kill 30+ enemy in big battle, battle tattic, fiefs management, control influence

The later stage of game is more fun than early stage of game, isn't it?
 
I don't like the thing of defeating and releasing lords to gain relation as the most viable way to progress either and haven't liked it since Warband. It's weird that you can attack someone when they say "I don't want to come to blows", then kill their thousand man strong army, kill their family members, and take their fief in a siege, and they end up liking you more than they did before, solely because you let them go.

It should work more like this:
* Attacking a lord instantly reduces your relation by -5. Being attacked by a lord, and defending yourself, does not change your relation.
* When you win, if the lord is Cowardly or Calculating, you gain +3 relations (to indicate that they become afraid of you, and wish to be on good terms with a superior fighter). If they are Foolhardy then you lose -1 extra relations for beating them (holding the grudge). Then, if you choose to release them, you get +4 relations. This is not enough to cover the relation loss if you attacked a lord who is not Cowardly or Calculating, so you will end up with net -1 relations. However, if they attacked you, and you show mercy by releasing them, you do gain net +5 relations.
* Imprisoning is -10 relations.
* Releasing after attacking is kept as a viable option by the fact that even though you end up with net negative relations (-1) against most lords, you'll get much less relation penalty than if you imprisoned them (-15, which can add up). You also gain Mercy, of course.

And in order for the player to be able recruit clans if/when they decide to secede from their faction:
* Traits have more influence in generating relation, so that having an Honorable reputation makes Honorable lords from every faction like you a lot more, having a reputation for winning lots of battles makes Brave lords like you a lot more, etc. If you are known to be Honorable, Brave, Generous, Merciful and Renowned by the time you leave your faction to start a new kingdom, and have also built up just a little relation with various nobles, you should have no difficulty in finding clans willing to join you. (Or if you're roleplaying a bad guy who's an ******* to everyone you should be rich enough to buy them off)

So even if you're defeating enemy clans in battle and dropping relations with most of them by -1 each time, if you're cultivating a good reputation for being honest, generous, brave, merciful etc., which is also boosted from the very battles you beat them in, that should be enough to offset the small losses and make it possible to recruit them without massive cost; and it also will be easy as it is now to recruit clans if you're beating up the Cowardly/Calculating lords who are a part of them, because they will tell their clan "if you can't beat em, join em".
+1
hmmm, but when you are high level, high skills, then it is more satisfying to kill high tier troops, not just looters
you can try to kill 30+ enemy in big battle, battle tattic, fiefs management, control influence

The later stage of game is more fun than early stage of game, isn't it?
In theory it should be, because larger battles means more fun (should last a bit longer, thus more chances for you to bathe your sword in blood), and participation in siege and subsequent keep battles. Also dungeon break out.
 

Ananda_The_Destroyer

Master Knight
hmmm, but when you are high level, high skills, then it is more satisfying to kill high tier troops, not just looters
you can try to kill 30+ enemy in big battle, battle tattic, fiefs management, control influence

The later stage of game is more fun than early stage of game, isn't it?
You can kill high level units without levels or skills early in the game anyways. In fact the only relevant skill is 70 bow to equip a noble bow, which you can also get very fast. What people like about early game is the feeling of progress. Getting a nest egg, building a party, getting married, defeating first lords, gaining first fiefs: these all seem like mile stones and progress. Problem is 1: With repeated play this process becomes extremely fast and trivial. 2. This loop repeats for the entire game after.
 
It's a casual Saturday, I am drinking my beer and think about the logic of this game

Goals ------- what you got to do to achieve that goal
To conquer the world ------ you got to build a strong kingdom
To build a strong kingdom ----- you got to convince as many lords as you can, basically every lords to join you
To convince lords to join you ----- you got to build high relationship with them
To build high relationship with them ----- you got to catch and release them 5 times at least (each time 6-8 points relationship, total 30 points is minimum)
So you got to become their enemy and defeat them as many times as you can.
The more you beat the lords, the best buddy you will get with them

To conquer Kuzait, I need to join N Empire first and beat all the Kuzait lords, conquer many fiefs, then convince their lords to join my kingdom

"IF you can't beat them, join them" ---- I guess that's true for this game

lol What a weird thing, isn't is
hahahahah
There is another faster way. If you are in same kingdom and you support their claim on castle / town during vote, it will give you tons of relations (and small - to relations with other lords that were not supported by you, but you always gain more than you lose) and also charisma skill points based on how much influence you spent. After some time you will have 100 relations with everyone and high charisma skill, then you can try to start the new kingdom or arrange few accidental arrow shots to the head of current king when you are in his army. Obviously you need influance, however that is not much of an issue once you start to have your other clan groups in armies (yours or friendly), once you build the proper buildings and once you have proper laws you have more influance then you can spend.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
Are you saying that charm is something you need to spec into?
If you don't want to play catch-and-release multiple times per clan, yeah. You should probably dump a few FPs there. @Philozoraptor already gave the best way to power level Charm but you can start gaining Charm pretty early just by doing quests, gifting people items and having emissaries in towns.

By ignoring Charm, you're basically making the game even more annoying and grindy for yourself. There aren't that many relevant character skills for the lategame but Charm is one of them.
 
If you don't want to play catch-and-release multiple times per clan, yeah. You should probably dump a few FPs there. @Philozoraptor already gave the best way to power level Charm but you can start gaining Charm pretty early just by doing quests, gifting people items and having emissaries in towns.

By ignoring Charm, you're basically making the game even more annoying and grindy for yourself. There aren't that many relevant character skills for the lategame but Charm is one of them.
Yeah charm, stewardship and leadership are the most important late game "leader" skills.
 
I don't like the thing of defeating and releasing lords to gain relation as the most viable way to progress either and haven't liked it since Warband. It's weird that you can attack someone when they say "I don't want to come to blows", then kill their thousand man strong army, kill their family members, and take their fief in a siege, and they end up liking you more than they did before, solely because you let them go.

It should work more like this:
* Attacking a lord instantly reduces your relation by -5. Being attacked by a lord, and defending yourself, does not change your relation.
* When you win, if the lord is Cowardly or Calculating, you gain +3 relations (to indicate that they become afraid of you, and wish to be on good terms with a superior fighter). If they are Foolhardy then you lose -1 extra relations for beating them (holding the grudge). Then, if you choose to release them, you get +4 relations. This is not enough to cover the relation loss if you attacked a lord who is not Cowardly or Calculating, so you will end up with net -1 relations. However, if they attacked you, and you show mercy by releasing them, you do gain net +5 relations.
* Imprisoning is -10 relations.
* Releasing after attacking is kept as a viable option by the fact that even though you end up with net negative relations (-1) against most lords, you'll get much less relation penalty than if you imprisoned them (-15, which can add up). You also gain Mercy, of course.

And in order for the player to be able recruit clans if/when they decide to secede from their faction:
* Traits have more influence in generating relation, so that having an Honorable reputation makes Honorable lords from every faction like you a lot more, having a reputation for winning lots of battles makes Brave lords like you a lot more, etc. If you are known to be Honorable, Brave, Generous, Merciful and Renowned by the time you leave your faction to start a new kingdom, and have also built up just a little relation with various nobles, you should have no difficulty in finding clans willing to join you. (Or if you're roleplaying a bad guy who's an ******* to everyone and exploits people greedily for every penny, you should at least be rich enough to buy them off)

So even if you're defeating enemy clans in battle and dropping relations with most of them by -1 each time, if you're cultivating a good reputation for being honest, generous, brave, merciful etc., which is also boosted from the very battles you beat them in, that should be enough to offset the small losses and make it possible to recruit them without massive cost; and it also will be easy as it is now to recruit clans if you're beating up the Cowardly/Calculating lords who are a part of them, because they will tell their clan "if you can't beat em, join em".
This would be a much better and more logical system. Combine this with "fight together relationships" and the option to organize tournaments to hosts allied clans + special invites to neutral clans and I think this would create a different gameplay loop where character traits have more meaning.
 
It's a casual Saturday, I am drinking my beer and think about the logic of this game

Goals ------- what you got to do to achieve that goal
To conquer the world ------ you got to build a strong kingdom
To build a strong kingdom ----- you got to convince as many lords as you can, basically every lords to join you
To convince lords to join you ----- you got to build high relationship with them
To build high relationship with them ----- you got to catch and release them 5 times at least (each time 6-8 points relationship, total 30 points is minimum)
So you got to become their enemy and defeat them as many times as you can.
The more you beat the lords, the best buddy you will get with them

To conquer Kuzait, I need to join N Empire first and beat all the Kuzait lords, conquer many fiefs, then convince their lords to join my kingdom

"IF you can't beat them, join them" ---- I guess that's true for this game

lol What a weird thing, isn't is
hahahahah
This is indeed bothering me since Warband. Strange that it is easier to improve relationships with enemies then it is with friends.
 
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