The lack of roleplay elements and emotional attatchenents in bannerlord frustrate me to no end.

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krizu

Recruit
I just cannot understand why is the emotional depth of this game, in which founding your personal clan and having a family, is the depth of your average mud puddle

You cannot talk, spend time, form relations or really even meet your siblings, children or husband/wife. Or rather, you can go to them but why would you ever do that?

Your wedding, the birth of your first children, the death of a sibling or a family member etc are passed as just mentions of no importance, even though they should be big deals for the character. Why should I try to care about my family or clan members, when there's no reason for it and when none of the characters act in a believable way.

I think I am not asking much here, even the idea that the clan exists outside of the player character would be nice, people meeting each other and talking, socialising, rumours being rampant etc. There's not even a letter system where a character, for example your wife, could send you a letter asking if you would like to spend time with them like in warband. Or god forbid, allowing you to communicate with letters which would be awesome.

If we're going to the deep end, I thought of an idea that instead of you having to "grind" relations with for example your spouse (not sure if that is even possible), their opinion of you would change based on traits and your actions

Merciful and honourable persons might not like you hiring bandits or raiding villages, while they might like you fighting bandits. While calculating persons might like you ransoming lords, would not care about hiring bandits and would not agree with letting captives go

Same could also apply to you. Either it would all happen automatically, or letting you choose if you agree or disagree with certain actions of the characters

Then, if the other characters like you enough, they would want to spend time with you. Or if they hate your guts, they might plot against you, spread rumours about you affecting relations with other lords, or even perhaps start a rebellion against you.

This would make it more important to manage your relations with people in the early game, and choose your spouse with care. It would also warrant a better dialogue mini-game, or at least more tries, with a singular suitor. Perhaps they could be persuaded into giving you another change. Also, why is it, that no npc is ever interested in you in marriage, why does it have to be the other way around every time?

Or you could just disregard all that and marry people for politics, nothing more, nothing less

I would just love to be able to care about the npc's which are supposed to be my characters family, in a game where family is an important aspect of both the gameplay, but also the world. I would love that the game would allow that.

On this note, the dialogue system is just non-existent and I hope the devs are working on it, for example you bring actual dialogue in it. There's clearly intended spots for it but no dialogue

Overall, I feel that the game lacks soul. Like the devs are not really interested in doing it justice and making the best game that they could. But more than anything, I am extremely worried about the current way they seem to be heading for. I have not found any kind of roadmap for the future so for all I know, all of this could be listed in there, and I hope that it is. But if there is no communication between the devs and us, why should I waste my energy and time in some vain hope I have no logic backing up?

I hope the devs realize what an unambitious and undelivering mess Bannerlord is at the moment, and aim to do something about it. I think whether they abandon the project once it releases or continue to develop it is what I call "a no man's sky decision", the shut up or put up moment when the upper leadership of Taleworlds will have to decide whether they want to change Bannerlord to be the greatest and grandest **** ever, or leave it as a barely working undeveloped mess and move forward.

One option will cost them money, another will cost them their fans.
 
There's nothing about improving NPC interaction in their SP roadmap (see also some informal comments here). Taleworlds people see the game as a battle simulator with few RPG elements, which is not what RPG-minded people want Bannerlord to be.
You'll have to wait for mods.
 
There's nothing about improving NPC interaction in their SP roadmap (see also some informal comments here). Taleworlds people see the game as a battle simulator with few RPG elements, which is not what RPG-minded people want Bannerlord to be.
You'll have to wait for mods.
As a Battle Simulator, it's not very good! It has less battle simulation than Kessen series for the Playstation 2! It's basically a few features more than dynasty warriors. I love dynasty warriors, but hello! I mean why did you even bother with a story if what you're going to do is minimalize the RPG elements in the game! And didn't they say in the original dev threads that each lord will have his or her own personality.

One of the things that made Warband and Viking Conquest good was the fact that you really did feel like you were courting a spouse as a friend and lover. Call me a bit romantic, but that was a small, yet enjoyable feature. (As a female myself, I also liked how this was different whether you were playing a male character or a female character. To me, there's something just not right about going into combat at being nine months pregnant...) You really did feel like you had friends. Your companions had their own back stories. They could get along or disagree with each other.

It was this nice RPG and battle simulator mix.
 
I do hope they keep working on the game, it would be a shame to stop when it has so much potential... If they only work on it for a few more months and then just stop, I'll conclude that they lost interest in the game or they were really not all that passionate about it to begin with. Ideas are there and they keep on coming, preaching possible improvements for every aspect of the game. And there are games with devs like you mentioned that kept working on the games they made even for years after the initial release, even without getting more money out of it (they worked on the basegame, not necessarily on DLC's), and that is what I would call having passion for your product. For Bannerlord, with many, many copies sold (with a big price tag as well), I imagine money is a literal non-issue for the company at this point, and there would be no need to go and rush another product or stop working on their current one even for years to come...

The only reason I could see them decide to stop working on the game (if passion is a non-issue) is the mentality of letting modders do the work because it just makes more sense to do so. Modders will create more content than TW will ever be able to compete with, just because there are so many modders compared to devs. Still, I would like to encourage them not to take this mentality upon themselves, because official updates and features are still the way to go imo, this is the path that will lead to a more beloved product and company reputation. People appreciate hard-working and passionate devs.

For the topic at hand, I feel the same way with the companions... I do like the new system of randomized companions, but they really need to make improvements that will make the player more attached to them. At this point I find that companions are no more than a hindrance on the player's economy at the beginning of the game (higher wages), and don't have many uses throughout the game either. They're worse than regular troops because regular troops can get high quality armors and they're very inexpensive, too. Companions in battle are just worse units, with worse skills and equipment, and they can easily die as well, so it's not ideal using them for combat to begin with, unless it's a boring horse archer.

I would like to see more interactions with companions (and family), and personally I would love to marry a companion rather than a regular Lady, but maybe I feel that way just because there is no real information about the ladies, and the marriage seems irrelevant, it's only for making babies. NPCs are just blank people with not much personality... when companions at least have a small story behind them, even though that is still not enough. At the highest of depth, I would expect every npc in the bannerlord universe to have a randomized story for themselves, and every npc to be marriable (commoner or noble, yes, even the villagers and townspeople). If it was my decision I would make it so that if the player chooses to interact with any random NPC for multiple times (talk to, play board games with etc), after gaining some relation to that said NPC it will reveal its generated story and its name to the player, giving the npc a personality and breathing more life into the world. I don't expect TW to ever go that far, but some more depth would still be very much appreciated, at least for the NPCs that are notable and do have a name...
 
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Bluko88

Regular
Merciful and honourable persons might not like you hiring bandits or raiding villages, while they might like you fighting bandits. While calculating persons might like you ransoming lords, would not care about hiring bandits and would not agree with letting captives go

Same could also apply to you. Either it would all happen automatically, or letting you choose if you agree or disagree with certain actions of the characters

Then, if the other characters like you enough, they would want to spend time with you. Or if they hate your guts, they might plot against you, spread rumours about you affecting relations with other lords, or even perhaps start a rebellion against you.

This would make it more important to manage your relations with people in the early game, and choose your spouse with care. It would also warrant a better dialogue mini-game, or at least more tries, with a singular suitor. Perhaps they could be persuaded into giving you another change. Also, why is it, that no npc is ever interested in you in marriage, why does it have to be the other way around every time?

Yeah stuff like this gets me. Obviously some ground-work was laid here with Character Traits and Relations. But at this point just hoping for Traits to effect Character Actions is probably hoping for too much. i.e. Honest Characters don't raid Villages

What's truly discouraging is how Warband from 2010 is so much more of an RPG then Bannerlord is. Presentation wise it may be lacking, but at least some efforts were made to make the game world feel lived-in.

Bannerlord is completely soul-less. Commoners have a few more remarks now since EA started, but still aren't worth speaking to. Lords more or less use all the same canned responses. Companions basically don't interact at all, which really only makes them good for leading Parties/Caravans. Calling them "Companions" is quite misleading really.

I hope the devs realize what an unambitious and undelivering mess Bannerlord is at the moment, and aim to do something about it. I think whether they abandon the project once it releases or continue to develop it is what I call "a no man's sky decision", the shut up or put up moment when the upper leadership of Taleworlds will have to decide whether they want to change Bannerlord to be the greatest and grandest **** ever, or leave it as a barely working undeveloped mess and move forward.

One option will cost them money, another will cost them their fans.

Well they've had a year and most of what we've gotten is optimizations, small quality of life changes, and some features that were previously Mods. Really about the only significant developments have been enabling Death and adding Rebellions in my mind.

Unfortunately I think because so many people bought the game when it first came out as EA due to hype, TW has very little real pressure to get anything done now. I guess we should be grateful they do anything at all, but there's no denying they've soured the batch here for a lot of people. I frankly won't be buying anything from them again.

I would not expect much from TW at this point. Mods made by the community will be the only thing that salvages the game.


It is undoubtedly frustrating to see a game with so much potential realize so very little of it. I've been disappointed with games before after their launches, such is life, but I've never experienced such a slow and painful process as Bannerlord. Guess with EA we all get to experience development hell now.
 
I think the fact every "feature" they have added thus far operates entirely without player interaction is a real problem. The game to simulation ratio if too far skewed.

I guess technically prison breaks require the player, but that SOB is going to get out regardless if you help them or not so I still don't think it counts.
 
They gave us a barber... What else could you ask for?

No, in all honesty this is a horrendous game for the price paid for. It's dreadful, one of the most un immersive games I have ever played. I will not be purchasing anything from TW in the future.
 
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Yeah stuff like this gets me. Obviously some ground-work was laid here with Character Traits and Relations. But at this point just hoping for Traits to effect Character Actions is probably hoping for too much. i.e. Honest Characters don't raid Villages

What's truly discouraging is how Warband from 2010 is so much more of an RPG then Bannerlord is. Presentation wise it may be lacking, but at least some efforts were made to make the game world feel lived-in.

Bannerlord is completely soul-less. Commoners have a few more remarks now since EA started, but still aren't worth speaking to. Lords more or less use all the same canned responses. Companions basically don't interact at all, which really only makes them good for leading Parties/Caravans. Calling them "Companions" is quite misleading really.



Well they've had a year and most of what we've gotten is optimizations, small quality of life changes, and some features that were previously Mods. Really about the only significant developments have been enabling Death and adding Rebellions in my mind.

Unfortunately I think because so many people bought the game when it first came out as EA due to hype, TW has very little real pressure to get anything done now. I guess we should be grateful they do anything at all, but there's no denying they've soured the batch here for a lot of people. I frankly won't be buying anything from them again.

I would not expect much from TW at this point. Mods made by the community will be the only thing that salvages the game.


It is undoubtedly frustrating to see a game with so much potential realize so very little of it. I've been disappointed with games before after their launches, such is life, but I've never experienced such a slow and painful process as Bannerlord. Guess with EA we all get to experience development hell now.
What they're doing is okay for the first game in the series, maybe the second game. But when you're entering into the third game, which is pretty much what we're on if you count all the spin offs to the original, then you really have to stop and think what it was that made your series so special.

And these "special things" range from the outright silly ("I'll drink from your skull'), to the unnecessary, but fun (various villager quests), to things that could have been better, but we loved them anyway (companion quests).

These small things add up. And they begin to add character and personality to the game. And that can distinguish it from its competitors. After playing games for a quarter of a century, I will say that character goes a very long way in games. If you played a game from the Playstation/N64 era, you would wonder how us older gamers tolerated it! Clunky controls with awful voice acting. And let's not mention how a lot of the animations required quite a bit of imagination. Then there's the broken camera! Don't even get me started. You kids all take the camera for granted with your over the shoulder view stuff and competently self adjusting camera, but I'll tell you, my day, it's caused more deaths and broken controllers than you think. (And controllers weren't any cheaper back then than they are now. In fact, the original duel analog controller for the Playstation is a $40 controller in 1997).

But despite these glaring flaws, the games of the Playstation/N64 era had character! They had a lot of character. And that made up for arguably inferior game play in the transition to 3D. There was a passion in it as they pioneered ahead with technology no one knew what to do with, but they're going to make a game with it anyway.

And it's not as though this concept is obsolete. Games like Spec Ops: The Line and Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice have flawed game play mechanics, but have character and stories that set them apart from other games in their respected genres.

Doing something new is not always the best road. In fact, very often it's doing the same thing, but with style.
 
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They gave us a barber... What else could you ask for?

No, in all honesty this is a horrendous game for the price paid for. It's dreadful, one of the most un immersive games I have ever played. I will not be purchasing anything from TW in the future.
Ehh, I'd disagree for the initial play through which for me was around a 100hours (less then a dollar an hour of entertainment I can live with). That's why I think it has such a good rating on steam. There is enough surface level immersion the most people will fill in the blanks with there imagination. But once you've consumed that single crumb, yes the games ture nature comes out and you can see how truly vapid it really is.

Oh, but I agree never again will I purchase a TW game. I have already stopped 4 friends from getting this one.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
On this note, the dialogue system is just non-existent and I hope the devs are working on it, for example you bring actual dialogue in it. There's clearly intended spots for it but no dialogue
Considering that personality traits are still only half-implemented, what little dialogue and persuasion there is doesn't function - since you need things like Valor and Calculating to accomplish certain checks.
  • You have to complete 60+ish quests in order to level Honor (a few specific quests - mind you - not just ANY quest).
  • You have to complete the Deal With Poachers quest peacefully 40+ times to level Mercy.
  • In order to level Calculating, you have to persuade LOL ONE HUNDRED CLANS to join you (and presumably pay each one accordingly). Literally nothing else influences this trait.
  • Leveling Valor is nearly impossible - it requires winning many, many combats where you're grossly outnumbered.
  • It is unclear whether it's possible to level Generosity.
  • You can level dishonor instantly by executing non-dishonorable NPC's and cruelty by raiding villages and cowardice by fleeing battle and greed by starving your party.
There's nothing about improving NPC interaction in their SP roadmap (see also some informal comments here). Taleworlds people see the game as a battle simulator with few RPG elements, which is not what RPG-minded people want Bannerlord to be.
You'll have to wait for mods.
It's honestly insulting that the devs would even put these features in the game if they don't plan on actually implementing them. The one guy who had a mod to fix personality traits gave up at some point and TW implemented a patch that did maybe half of what he did (namely fixing the bug where personality traits reset to zero right after character creation).

They gave us a barber... What else could you ask for?

No, in all honesty this is a horrendous game for the price paid for. It's dreadful, one of the most un immersive games I have ever played. I will not be purchasing anything from TW in the future.
From your lips to the devs' ears, brother.

I had really low expectations going in to BL last year... but they've plumbed far below my worst imaginings. This is a broken, buggy, stuttering looter-farming simulator with a budget version of Mordhau awkwardly tacked on to it. Also a reasonably pretty excel spreadsheet with the option to call one of the columns your wife.

I've gotten pretty decent at BL combat and I can safely say it's not remotely engaging or tactical or fun, nor does it resemble any combat IRL. The boring routine of block, hit, spam attack, feint, rotate and shield bash... meh? It's like DDR with grunting.

Some people HATED the combat in Kingdom Come, but that had easily 10 times more depth than BL's.

Without mods, BL is about as fun as punching yourself in the gonads. With mods, it's barely as good as vanilla WB.

I cannot believe I waited years for this, nor can I describe the visceral hatred I feel for the SOON fanbois who've been enabling the devs for the past year.. especially those who have the gall to say that "nobody" is complaining about these things when literally 92.88% of the userbase left within 2 months of release and never came back.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
It is unclear whether it's possible to level Generosity.
It is definitely possible to level Generosity. I gained that trait after a few years.
You can level dishonor instantly by executing non-dishonorable NPC's and cruelty by raiding villages and cowardice by fleeing battle and greed by starving your party.
Executing someone is the only one that potentially gives you a negative trait because it is set to -1000 and that was because the dev responsible didn't want players doing it.
 

bonerstorm

Veteran
It is definitely possible to level Generosity. I gained that trait after a few years.

Executing someone is the only one that potentially gives you a negative trait because it is set to -1000 and that was because the dev responsible didn't want players doing it.
Generosity seems to be tagged to keeping morale at 90+ for several years and literally nothing else budges it.

Actually you lose Honor in a bunch of different ways. Execution is instant negative, but failing or even succeeding in the "wrong" way at certain quests will neg Honor (violent end to the Daughter quest,, for instance).

I understand the reason why they disincentivized executing nobles in general, but it really strains credulity at certain points - like with criminal minor factions.

If I capture the entire membership of the Hand or the Embers (who are criminal bandit groups), why the hell am I forced to sell them for ransom instead of keeping them in prison forever or - ideally - taking off their damn heads???
 

Aurex

Regular
WB
As of now, instead of being a game it's a barely working tech demo for a medieval battle simulator. Not even a good one at that.
There's no care whatsoever, no talent and no interest shown for anything *but* the combat, and even that is nothing to be amazed of.
It's as if they were annoyed at our disappointment, went into full avoidance mode with that tone deaf anniversary post "Everything is great, we made great progress, thanks for your Jester awards on Steam" and decided to just half-arse the rest of the year until they can slap a "Finished" tag on the game, take it out of EA and let the modders work to make it half-decent... and without the tools they need to make it so.

You know the Skinner's meme from the Simpsons? That's my general feeling towards TW right now.
 

Ser Jon

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
A lot of what you bring up is exactly why I keep going back to Warband. That should not be my immediate response to its successor. Nothing feels meaningful. It's crazy to think that a game that looks as dorky as Warband does can incite that but not Bannerlord, made a decade later with a superior engine.

There's nothing about improving NPC interaction in their SP roadmap (see also some informal comments here). Taleworlds people see the game as a battle simulator with few RPG elements, which is not what RPG-minded people want Bannerlord to be.
You'll have to wait for mods.

Well that just increased my disappointment by a ton. ☹️
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Generosity seems to be tagged to keeping morale at 90+ for several years and literally nothing else budges it.

Actually you lose Honor in a bunch of different ways. Execution is instant negative, but failing or even succeeding in the "wrong" way at certain quests will neg Honor (violent end to the Daughter quest,, for instance).
Oh, I wasn't saying that is the only way to lose Honor -- my post originally said "instantly" and it was lost somehow. It's the only one that instantly traits you though. Everything else is like -50 at most.
I understand the reason why they disincentivized executing nobles in general, but it really strains credulity at certain points - like with criminal minor factions.

If I capture the entire membership of the Hand or the Embers (who are criminal bandit groups), why the hell am I forced to sell them for ransom instead of keeping them in prison forever or - ideally - taking off their damn heads???
It has been brought up before and the dev who did it is (or was...) pretty active on the forums.
 

dirtshrimp

Veteran
WBNWVC
It is the effect of procedurally generating everything. It all feels the same and immediately takes you out of the world. The strict adherence to these generic historical cultures also makes the game lose personality, and it feels like there is nothing in common with warband's calradia. It is like a completely different place. Hopefully Taleworlds has plans to flesh out the game, and doesn't intend for it to be some generic framework for mods.
 

Gurkhal

Sergeant
I have no problem with a focus on the fighting. The game is a sandbox, not an RPG, and the combat system is the core part of the game. RPG elements are auxiliary aspects to that. Thus I see no problem in getting the game's basic elements fixed before moving on to supporting features.

And as has been said above. Warband's greatest strength was its numberless mods. So I think it will be with Bannerlord to fix various itches for RPG, other time periods etc. that people might want.

***

@dirtshrimp I actually feel the opposite. The fact that things are grounded in a history and not in random fantasy elements makes the game more immersive to me. And there's plenty of stuff in common with Calradia, its just that Calradia in Warbands has seen he empire collapse and 200 years of change affect it.
 

Rungsted93

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SVC
TW sadly doesn't want to make the game into a RPG... I mean heck something as simple as childbirth makes no sense. There should be a dialogue option if you're in the same keep as your wife to spend the night together, only then would there be a chance of her becoming pregnant.
Not only is it more immersive, but it gives an incentive to actually enter a scene + it gives more control to the player so you don't end up with 10 children.

Additionally why didn't an intern spend a couple of weeks creating a bunch of custom companies with interesting back stories and dialogues? They could have 20-30 of these and then have the random ones fill in.
 
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