The implementation of banners and standard bearers

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Askorti

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WB
assuming the guy is working 24/7/365 he's only got the same amount of time as 4.2 full time devs. no sleep, no food, no work, nothing else.
he's getting paid $0.00/ hour. and we know the developer tools weren't released till not even a year ago.

you listed a whole lot of assumptions, most of which based on some idea that having a team and a boss is somehow a detriment. (which i agree with at some level. since most mid level managers are deadweight and don't contribute to a project but that's besides the point).

Meanwhile the dev team has had 9 years to create this game. Literally titled "BANNER-lord". and the Banners were already a feature in Warband. So forgive me for assuming they had at least the competence to copy paste their own work
Where there were banners in vanilla Warband? I do not remember them.

Next thing, remember, banners, even though the game is called "BANNER-lord" are a minor feature. And there is a ton of other stuff that needs to be done in much shorter order. Next thing is, devs do not have full creative independence like modders do. A dev can't simply sit down and say "I'm gonna code some banners now". No. They have a pipeline that they have to adhere to, that obviously gets clogged up with other stuff. Again, something a modder never has to worry about.

All of the above, and probably two heaps of stuff I did not even mention or never thought about are reasons for why comparing the work of modders to the work of devs as if there was any sort of equivalency is ignorant at best, stupid when you look at it normally, and just straight up malicious at worst. Up to you where on this spectrum you stand.
 
comparing the work of modders to the work of devs as if there was any sort of equivalency is ignorant at best, stupid when you look at it normally, and just straight up malicious at worst. Up to you where on this spectrum you stand.
that's your personal opinion based on your idealized version of the world

in fact they do the exact same work. one does it as a job, gets paid and has to go by their rules and follow orders. the other does it for fun, doesn't get paid, and doesn't have to go by the rules. that's the only difference. and they have the choice to make

if i was a coder working for TW, and I truly wanted to make Bannerlord a better game at any cost. I would perhaps even quit my job and mod it full time unrestricted by rules. of course that's a self sacrifice but it will improve the game much more than staying at that job and answering to the boss men.

If i was a lead manager at TW, and I truly wanted to make Bannerlord a better game at any cost. I would play the game tons, and figure out personally what needs to be fixed, and fix them with a renewed priority list. tell the coders to get to work. rinse and repeat

But frankly from what i've observed. both coders and managers at TW prefer to make money at their jobs over making the game better. after the early release, there hasn't been much effort on their part. namely because of the money. but in reality, making the game better will result in making more money and having more job security for mount and blade 3.
as it stands though, will people want a third installment of this series? i don't.
 
the management has gone AWOL for a long time now, in the days of yore of the forums we even had Armagan himself (the head of TW) constantly engaging with the community here but these days are long past..
well yeah, since Early release and the money, there's little effort on their end.
 

klinGiii

Squire
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
the concept of "outperform" is completely irrelevant if you aren't even talking about the same activities. go back to grade school and relearn your vocabulary before
you start an argument online

Be happy that i speak to you in a language that you understand.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
It's literally the PR guy (callum) and coders, sceners etc that interact with us in the forums in their own free time, the management has gone AWOL for a long time now, in the days of yore of the forums we even had Armagan himself (the head of TW) constantly engaging with the community here but these days are long past..
I wonder if it was anything to do with all the hatred, insults and literal death threats that put him off coming here.... after making this series for 20 something years....

People are still confused why TW don't want to engage on here when there is literally a thread titled 'bannerlord was a grift' on the front page. In the UK that could be considered slander (or perhaps defamation) and is a civil offence. Seriously - post that stuff in the wrong place directed at the wrong people and you could end up in court. The reason the thread exists seems only to be to serve as a 'scape goat for discontent - which is again equally miserable.

I'm honestly shocked Taleworlds haven't done a CA - and just moved their primary social media platforms to reddit & discord.
 
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vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
I wonder if it was anything to do with all the hatred, insults and literal death threats that put him off coming here.... after making this series for 20 something years....

People are still confused why TW don't want to engage on here when there is literally a thread titled 'bannerlord was a grift' on the front page. In the UK that could be considered slander (or perhaps defamation) and is a civil offence. Seriously - post that stuff in the wrong place directed at the wrong people and you could end up in court. The reason the thread exists seems only to be to serve as a 'scape goat for discontent - which is again equally miserable.

I'm honestly shocked Taleworlds haven't done a CA - and just moved their primary social media platforms to reddit & discord.
yeah i get this, criticism is good and all but some go out of their way to be disrespectful and many devs have commented this already thankfully refusing to fall for the bait.

That aside i don't know it this in particular has anything to do with Armagan not engaging in the forums like he used to, this was one of most friendly communities i've ever seen before the release of bannerlord in EA (and if you lock the multiplayer asshats in a dungeon and throw the key away though every game with a competitive scene has those)
 
yeah i get this, criticism is good and all but some go out of their way to be disrespectful and many devs have commented this already thankfully refusing to fall for the bait.

That aside i don't know it this in particular has anything to do with Armagan not engaging in the forums like he used to, this was one of most friendly communities i've ever seen before the release of bannerlord in EA (and if you lock the multiplayer asshats in a dungeon and throw the key away though every game with a competitive scene has those)
I agree, people were very happy until the game actually came out and then their dreams and hopes just died
 
I agree, people were very happy until the game actually came out and then their dreams and hopes just died
it's not even about the state of the game at early launch, but how little effort they are making after the launch now that there are millions of beta testers giving feedback.
 
I wonder if it was anything to do with all the hatred, insults and literal death threats that put him off coming here.... after making this series for 20 something years....

People are still confused why TW don't want to engage on here when there is literally a thread titled 'bannerlord was a grift' on the front page. In the UK that could be considered slander (or perhaps defamation) and is a civil offence. Seriously - post that stuff in the wrong place directed at the wrong people and you could end up in court. The reason the thread exists seems only to be to serve as a 'scape goat for discontent - which is again equally miserable.
Armagan's last post was just days before the EA release. After that, nothing. He disappeared at the time when he just made millions from EA sales. What does that look like?
Also note that even if the players were shocked by the poor state of Bannerlord at EA, they were optimistic about Taleworlds fixing it in a timely manner.
Rant threads only started in earnest later, when it became obvious that Bannerlord won't change by much and development was very slow anyway.
 

vonbalt

Sergeant Knight
WBNWVCM&B
Also note that even if the players were shocked by the poor state of Bannerlord at EA, they were optimistic about Taleworlds fixing it in a timely manner.
Yup, i'm a victim of that, just look at my history in the forums, for some 3~4 months after release i was extremely optimistic still saying left and right they just needed more time to deliver, that was before they started rolling out the too complex/management denied/etc cards to basically 99% suggestions made by the community to improve the game..
 
"he"

Didn't "he" have to pay some devs?

Just being fair
These two amounts are at very different levels. Realistic calculations have been made (both for sales revenue and running the business) that show a hefty profit, or in TW's own words, enough money to fund years of free work on Bannerlord.
Since he is the principal owner of a company that made 100 millions, I'd say he's done very well for himself. If he's sad about forum toxicity he can always wipe his tears with 100 dollar bills.
Even if you don't make huge amounts of money, it's decent to face the music and say something about the unrealistic hype that made your great sales possible, and not slink away and leave it to underlings to bear the brunt of discontent.
 
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mujadaddy

Regular
WB
Since he is the principal owner of a company that made 100 millions, I'd say he's done very well for himself.
Sure, I just know that labor is the main expense in this enterprise, and growth isn't necessarily managed well by those that grow, in any sector.

And half of all businesses fail in the first 2 years.
 

Reiksmarshal

Sergeant Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
One of the things I would like to see is when you use the shield wall formation the troops that carry banners don't stand in the front row! They should position themselves in the back row, it is practical and they won't be arrow targets.

Banners shouldn't be that big of an impact to performance, I was running Bear my Banner mod with dozens of banners on the battle field and didn't see an impact.

Really looking forward to the bonus and the different style banners, TW really has an opportunity to spice up battlefield immersion with laying banners on thick.
 
I'm still a bit concerned about how the banners will be carried.

Having the banner in the shield slot looks really goofy and would be unwieldy. Someone else pointed out, they shouldn't be sashimono as that would be anachronistic and not fit the meta (unless TW gives us an Edo-period or Sengoku-period inspired faction :cool:).

I would be okay if every X troops (every 10?) would have their weapons replaced with a 2-handed banner / pennant - but that would need to be handled dynamically per culture. Would look weird having everyone with a generic pike and pennant/banner design.
 

MostBlunted

On probation
Really looking forward to the bonus and the different style banners, TW really has an opportunity to spice up battlefield immersion with laying banners on thick.
Yes, let´s hope the best. But I would even be happy if it would be just like the bear my banner mod, more is better of course :wink:
 
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