The Idea of Wars Having Specific Goals

[stevepine]

Even the Crusades had goals (capture and hold Jerusalem for example).

Imagine if Battania went to war with the aim of pushing back the Khuzaits to a certain point on the map... and if you significantly contributed to achieving something like that... then you would gain favour and glory with all of the Battanian Lords.

Imagine being able to do this with your own Kingdom later on. You are able to set a certain city as your war goal. With a reward of some kind for achieving it.

I just think it would add some depth to the game. What do you guys think?

 

[Lord Irontoe]

Yeah, I think most players would want this. The question is whether the ai can ever be smart enough to choose sensible war goals, since all they seem to do now is to go after whatever the weakest target is. But even Warband had war goals to a certain extent. You could look at the diplomacy screen and see that one faction was at war with another one to reclaim a certain fief or to check their expansion. We don't have any of that in BL.

 

[sniparsexe]

Casus Belli, World Tension, Warmonger. We need these. Civilization 6-ish Warmongering / Casus Belli systems would work really well, merge these 2 with a world tension system and you have a great system.

I'll explain what I mean shortly.

Casus Belli, declaring wars without a reason should have consequences. There can be 5 Casus Belli's.

1. Target kingdom attacked one of your allies (Afaik, they have plans to add an alliance system)
2. Target kingdom holds one of your castles / cities
3. Target kingdom attacked something that belongs to your kingdom (Caravan, villager, village etc.)
4. Target kingdom is a warmonger

World Tension, declaring wars should add some points (percentages) to a list, if World Tension gets maxed, basically Calradia will fall (Everyone will fight with each other, no trades etc.) to lower the World Tension you should be able to do some quests, trade agreements etc.

If you declare war without a reason, you will add more points to the World Tension limit, if you declare war with a reason (Casus Belli reasons) you will add few points. (Or casus bellis can have different World Tension rates, if they attacked one of your allies and you declare war on them you won't add points to the World Tension list but if they hold one of your castles / cities you will add some points) (I made a detailed post about this once, here)

Warmonger, if you add too many points to the world tension list (or surpass a limit) you will become a Warmonger. The enemies will have a reason to declare war on you, they will maybe stop trading with you.

It is cool, right? But it ain't gonna happen. TW is trying to make this game very easy, they are trying to simplify everything so ain't gonna happen (and adding this complicated features at this point would break the game so hard, modders???)

 

[danEN]

What makes them decide to declare war currently? I'm not sure but this is definitely something I'd like to be a known factor in the game, it would give some actual directive.

Also factions declaring war for what seems to be no reason makes it feel very artificial, it doesn't feel like there's any relationship between factions.

 

[7heTexanRebel]

What makes them decide to declare war currently?

I would put money on it being a purely random dice roll, maybe some weight from the kingdoms proximity but not enough to stop sturgia and aserai from being at war close to the start of the some of my games

 

[danEN]

I would put money on it being a purely random dice roll, maybe some weight from the kingdoms proximity but not enough to stop sturgia and aserai from being at war close to the start of the some of my games

As Irontoe said it seems to be just down to faction strength, but surely it can't just be that basic. It would explain the a lot of the problems though, like snowballing.

 

[black_bulldog]

There is never any indication at least to the player as to why a faction is going to war. I would hope that at some point TW would give at least some indications why things are happening. But I doubt something like this is even on their radar because I don't ever recall seeing a dev discuss this.

 

[Apocal]

I would put money on it being a purely random dice roll, maybe some weight from the kingdoms proximity but not enough to stop sturgia and aserai from being at war close to the start of the some of my games

Daily chance per clan of someone proposing war. War votes happen in accordance to their usual reasoning.

 

[stevepine]

Yeah, I think most players would want this. The question is whether the ai can ever be smart enough to choose sensible war goals, since all they seem to do now is to go after whatever the weakest target is. But even Warband had war goals to a certain extent. You could look at the diplomacy screen and see that one faction was at war with another one to reclaim a certain fief or to check their expansion. We don't have any of that in BL.

WelI, I didn't even know warband had that to be honest. But then I am reasonably new to the mount and blade games. Started a couple of years ago with warband, which felt like such a solid and well rounded game. I know we are still in EA... but I find it really odd that bannerlord has surged ahead in some areas but , development wise, it is still a million miles from even getting the basic cohesive functionality of warband. Oh well... we will see.

 

[vonbalt]

Wow...I didn't even know warband had that to be honest. But I am reasonably new to the mount and blade games. Started a couple of years ago with warband, which felt like such a solid and well rounded game. I know we are still in EA but I find it really odd that bannerlord has surged ahead in some areas but , development wise, it is still a million miles from even getting the basic cohesive functionality of warband. Oh well... we will see.

Yeah warband had war goals more or less as different reasons for going to war (even if a bit on the simple side), a faction could declare war to curb another faction's power if they felt it was growing too strong and threatening, reclaim territory lost in previous wars and random border incidents that would make factions more likely to make war against each other.

 

[Apocal]

Yeah warband had war goals more or less as different reasons for going to war (even if a bit on the simple side), a faction could declare war to curb another faction's power if they felt it was growing too strong and threatening, reclaim territory lost in previous wars and random border incidents that would make factions more likely to make war against each other.

I still remember one Swadian town literally every faction had a claim on (Dhirim?).

 

[Gandamula]

And what about frontiers? I even can understand where a kingdom start, there are mixed settlements, the armies can walk free to invade a far neighborhood, its weird.

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

What makes them decide to declare war currently? I'm not sure but this is definitely something I'd like to be a known factor in the game, it would give some actual directive.

Also factions declaring war for what seems to be no reason makes it feel very artificial, it doesn't feel like there's any relationship between factions.

Money. Kingdoms declare wars to smaller/weaker ones, so they can raid and extort some peace tribute.

 

[five bucks]

And what about frontiers? I even can understand where a kingdom start, there are mixed settlements, the armies can walk free to invade a far neighborhood, its weird.

Border controls weren't really a thing in the 1000s. On the other hand, it would be really good if castles automatically generated patrols in an area around them to detect bandits and enemy armies roaming in their territory (I think someone's suggested this before).

 

[Askorti]

World Tension, declaring wars should add some points (percentages) to a list, if World Tension gets maxed, basically Calradia will fall (Everyone will fight with each other, no trades etc.) to lower the World Tension you should be able to do some quests, trade agreements etc.

This... makes absolutely no sense for a game set in the fantasy version of 1000-1100's. What is your rationale for such a ridiculous mechanic to be inserted into the setting? Why should Sturgia declare war on the Aserai just because the Khuzaits and the empire fought a lot of "lawless" wars?

 

[Revverie]

Big yes, BIG YES JUST ANYTHING THAT GIVES DYNAMISM TO THIS GAME DO IT PRINT IT

 

[five bucks]

This... makes absolutely no sense for a game set in the fantasy version of 1000-1100's. What is your rationale for such a ridiculous mechanic to be inserted into the setting? Why should Sturgia declare war on the Aserai just because the Khuzaits and the empire fought a lot of "lawless" wars?

Agreed, the concept of 'world tension' doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

 

[Defury]

Target kingdom holds one of your castles / cities

Make that "target kingdom holds castles / cities of your culture". Then all (civil War) Empire factions have always valid Casus Belli against the other Empire Factions.

 

[Iberian Wolf]

That would be great, although I doubt it's gonna happen at this point of development.

I can see a few advantages if we had something like justified wars(would require a "trigger", but no relations penalty with the other factions) and a random declaration of war (some factions can ally against you)

-More flavour to each faction (for instance, the Khuzaits or the Aserai would not have the penalty above for being a tribe confederation); it could prevent snowballing to a certain degree; and historically speaking, it makes sense, and gives a bit of personal touch to the wars (War for Epicrotea; etc)

In order to trigger a justified war, there could be a mix of random events and player actions and conditions like

- Fief governed by a faction of a different culture
- Execution of a noble from a powerful house
- Kidnapping a lady-in-waiting
- Religious reasons
- Claim (fabricated or not) on a certain fief

One can dream, but it would be very interesting to mod some of these...

 

[Fell]

They SHOULD institute some of the reasons for war present in Warband (reclaim lost territory that was theirs in the first place), to curb the rapid rise in power of a bordering neighboring kingdom (become too strong, too fast with some other factors). It currently seems too random.