The Fourth Reich (TFR)

[Sovereignty]

What's wrong with gay people?.

I think its disgusting.

I think you missed part of his post.

Note that I don't agree, I just felt I needed to point out that he already answered your question in his initial statement.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

What...? 

Ho well I guess I was wrong about you.

You mix freedom of political ideas or ideology (wich were the discussion here) with a farfetch story of cannibals.

But I will humour you. As long as the cannibal cult don't eat my sister or anyone else (thus breaking the law and making someone very angry) they can can think whathever they want. My opinion would be that they are freaks. But as long as they don't bother me, they can think whathever.

Nazism is hardly your everyday political ideology.  You think anything that doesn't harm you is harmless, and that's flawed and irresponsible.

 

[AoC]

I think people should be punished for their deeds, not thoughts. Some folk in the thread feel otherwise, and i am ok with it (i just don't want people like you should make the law and enforce it, thats worse than nazism).

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

This isn't about punishment.  The whole argument is about whether the term "Fourth Reich" is separable from Nazism.

When it comes down to opinion, mine is that Nazis are scum, so yeah, I'm gonna express it.

 

[AoC]

This isn't about punishment.  The whole argument is about whether the term "Fourth Reich" is separable from Nazism.

When it comes down to opinion, mine is that Nazis are scum, so yeah, I'm gonna express it.

Point is, Condestavel and Meister_Eder sidetracked the discussion

I think that in fictional world (Calradia), fourth reich is separable from nazis just fine. One of the points of fictional worlds like this is to use some concept without real life burden (like Sarranids are not linked to muslims in the world, or that religion plays lesser role in the setting).

Many people are scum, i'd say most of them.

 

[Skandinav]

This thread should be renamed to "Philosophical and Political Sundries".

 

[kingofnoobia]

If you are nazis, cool.
If you are not nazis, cool.

Freedom 4 all

Nazism explicitly encourages violence and discrimination. That's enough to lose your freedom of speech, in my opinion.

Now, that's quite irrelevant to the clan. I couldn't care less about the name. As long as they don't share the ideology, I won't flame them for it.

 

[Condestavel]

I think people should be punished for their deeds, not thoughts. Some folk in the thread feel otherwise, and i am ok with it (i just don't want people like you should make the law and enforce it, thats worse than nazism).

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and believes. What I can do is try to reason with, lets say, a nazi - and through debate make him see the flaw of some of his ideas.

But I would never deny him or anyone the right to to think freely. As long as that person respects others, they can beleive whatever they want. it's their right.

Thing is, with nazism it's easy to say "they are wrong, the don't deserv, they shoudn't exist". But after that, it's easy to deny other ways of thinking to others. I could say the same words to comunism. From my point of view it's undemocratic, corrupt, centralized and evil. But I won't.  I have a lot of communist friends, and we get along fine. and I enjoy very much debating with them.

 

[Skandinav]

That is Leninism, Stalinism and Maoism you are referring to. Real Communism, as Marx envisioned it, has never been achieved, and could never be said to be centralized or undemocratic.

Many of the things you mention, Condestavel ( and you too, Kingofnoobia ), could on the other hand easily be attributed to raw Capitalism.

I agree completely with the notion of Freedom of Thought, though, of course.

 

[Sovereignty]

That is Leninism, Stalinism and Maoism you are referring to. Real Communism, as Marx envisioned it, has never been achieved, and could never be said to be centralized or undemocratic.

You're my new bestest friend foreverest. So many people are victims of McCarthyist and/or Soviet propaganda, and very few have actually bothered to read the Manifesto to see what it's really about.

 

[prowler08071984]

It is almost amusing when "freedom of expression" abruptly ends when the term "nazi" enters the topic ) And some of you probably call yourselves democrats, funny also. It is clear that this guy's Reich has nothing to do with the ex-"german national socialists" but every time people begin to see red lights flashing even before someone utters the word "na.." and there goes the neighborhood. Should the word "american" become such a frightening word in the case they decide to piss-off half the world? Wait... they are already doing it but no arguments here, no? In my oppinion the "hammer and sickle" should be banned also just because half of Europe suffered because of the Soviet Union aka Winners of the Just War and new masters of smaller countries that nobody gives a damn about. Down with the nazis, hail the new oppressors! This is an old case... beeing the winner entitles you to do whatever you please, as they have. So do we not have the right to be mildly upset, to say the least, when we see symbols of the Soviet Union on t-shirts and such? We would be upset but shouldn't repress the person because it's everybody's right to express his ideas whenever and however he likes.


Don't change your Clan's name, you have the right to call it whatever you want.

 

[Taimat396]

What...? 

Ho well I guess I was wrong about you.

You mix freedom of political ideas or ideology (wich were the discussion here) with a farfetch story of cannibals.

But I will humour you. As long as the cannibal cult don't eat my sister or anyone else (thus breaking the law and making someone very angry) they can can think whathever they want. My opinion would be that they are freaks. But as long as they don't bother me, they can think whathever.

I don't like gay stuff either. I think its disgusting. But as long as they don't bother me, and don't disrespect me, they can do wathever they want.

Hey there, pretty boy. Come, stay a while...

 

[AoC]

It is almost amusing when "freedom of expression" abruptly ends when the term "nazi" enters the topic ) And some of you probably call yourselves democrats, funny also. It is clear that this guy's Reich has nothing to do with the ex-"german national socialists" but every time people begin to see red lights flashing even before someone utters the word "na.." and there goes the neighborhood. Should the word "american" become such a frightening word in the case they decide to piss-off half the world? Wait... they are already doing it but no arguments here, no? In my oppinion the "hammer and sickle" should be banned also just because half of Europe suffered because of the Soviet Union aka Winners of the Just War and new masters of smaller countries that nobody gives a damn about. Down with the nazis, hail the new oppressors! This is an old case... beeing the winner entitles you to do whatever you please, as they have. So do we not have the right to be mildly upset, to say the least, when we see symbols of the Soviet Union on t-shirts and such? We would be upset but shouldn't repress the person because it's everybody's right to express his ideas whenever and however he likes.


Don't change your Clan's name, you have the right to call it whatever you want.

Generally this.

I'd like to mention also earlier oppressors, before nazis If we would ban them, half of the world would be forbidden to use cross or other religious symbol, as it's "tainted" with bloodshed and other grave deeds (as pretty much every country).

But yeah, feel free to think that it's nazis that are the only war criminals who terrorised and harmed/killed people en masse.

 

[kingofnoobia]

I think people should be punished for their deeds, not thoughts. Some folk in the thread feel otherwise, and i am ok with it (i just don't want people like you should make the law and enforce it, thats worse than nazism).

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and believes. What I can do is try to reason with, lets say, a nazi - and through debate make him see the flaw of some of his ideas.

But I would never deny him or anyone the right to to think freely. As long as that person respects others, they can beleive whatever they want. it's their right.

Thing is, with nazism it's easy to say "they are wrong, the don't deserv, they shoudn't exist". But after that, it's easy to deny other ways of thinking to others. I could say the same words to comunism. From my point of view it's undemocratic, corrupt, centralized and evil. But I won't.  I have a lot of communist friends, and we get along fine. and I enjoy very much debating with them.

You could say that the difference between stamping nazism as wrong and other ideologies is small, but I believe that, if a certain ideology actively propagates breaking the human rights, I may consider it inhuman. Now, that may sound somewhat paradoxal, as the human rights themselves state that all humans have freedom of speech, but it's at the very least quite hypocritical that an ideology that actively breaks several of these laws could appeal to them and use them as an argument.

And what Skandinav said about communism.

 

[Foffy123]

I think people should be punished for their deeds, not thoughts. Some folk in the thread feel otherwise, and i am ok with it (i just don't want people like you should make the law and enforce it, thats worse than nazism).

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and believes. What I can do is try to reason with, lets say, a nazi - and through debate make him see the flaw of some of his ideas.

But I would never deny him or anyone the right to to think freely. As long as that person respects others, they can beleive whatever they want. it's their right.

Thing is, with nazism it's easy to say "they are wrong, the don't deserv, they shoudn't exist". But after that, it's easy to deny other ways of thinking to others. I could say the same words to comunism. From my point of view it's undemocratic, corrupt, centralized and evil. But I won't.  I have a lot of communist friends, and we get along fine. and I enjoy very much debating with them.

You could say that the difference between stamping nazism as wrong and other ideologies is small, but I believe that, if a certain ideology actively propagates breaking the human rights, I may consider it inhuman. Now, that may sound somewhat paradoxal, as the human rights themselves state that all humans have freedom of speech, but it's at the very least quite hypocritical that an ideology that actively breaks several of these laws could appeal to them and use them as an argument.

And what Skandinav said about communism.

Let's find a nazi that will do that, shall we? I don't see any nazis at all in this topic.

 

[kingofnoobia]

Let's find a nazi that will do that, shall we? I don't see any nazis at all in this topic.

I already said that I don't have anything against this clan and I don't think there are any nazi's here . We were discussing something quite different, namely how we would treat someone with nazi sympathies.

Now, that's quite irrelevant to the clan. I couldn't care less about the name. As long as they don't share the ideology, I won't flame them for it.

 

[Condestavel]

I think people should be punished for their deeds, not thoughts. Some folk in the thread feel otherwise, and i am ok with it (i just don't want people like you should make the law and enforce it, thats worse than nazism).

Agreed. Everyone is entitled to his opinion and believes. What I can do is try to reason with, lets say, a nazi - and through debate make him see the flaw of some of his ideas.

But I would never deny him or anyone the right to to think freely. As long as that person respects others, they can beleive whatever they want. it's their right.

Thing is, with nazism it's easy to say "they are wrong, the don't deserv, they shoudn't exist". But after that, it's easy to deny other ways of thinking to others. I could say the same words to comunism. From my point of view it's undemocratic, corrupt, centralized and evil. But I won't.  I have a lot of communist friends, and we get along fine. and I enjoy very much debating with them.

You could say that the difference between stamping nazism as wrong and other ideologies is small, but I believe that, if a certain ideology actively propagates breaking the human rights, I may consider it inhuman. Now, that may sound somewhat paradoxal, as the human rights themselves state that all humans have freedom of speech, but it's at the very least quite hypocritical that an ideology that actively breaks several of these laws could appeal to them and use them as an argument.

And what Skandinav said about communism.

Hypocrisy is another name for politics. All of them 
----------------------------
A bit of roleplay now.
Hey guys wazzup. I'm creating this clan called the SS based on you know what. it's not that I am a really a nazi, but I like them uniforms, and I like them panzers, and I love them U-boats. And I find some appeal to a strong society with order in this chaos we live in (lol that sounds actualy nice). But of course, I despise the holocaust, and similar stuff (killings, descrimination, all the "bad" stuff). That said, can I do this, or Am I forbidden?

Cya later dogs, and have a good sieg heil on yo ass. Fo real.

 

[Skandinav]

 

[Foffy123]

 

[kingofnoobia]

Hypocrisy is another name for politics. All of them 

That is irrelevant, isn't it?

And I disagree. Like most generalisations, it's false. There are a good deal of politicians or political groups who are genuinely motivated and willing to improve the world.