The Fourth Reich (TFR)

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Part of Nazi propaganda or not, the denomination is - while misused by the Nazi's and avoided by most modern historians - not so very far-fetched. Nazi Germany was, though very short-lived, comparable to the German Empire and HRE in many aspects ( which it sought to mimic ), and just because a term is coined during the time of a regime, even if it furthers the goals of said regime, it shouldn't necessarily be so entwined as to always be in connection with this ( only if it has other functions of course ) - though naturally it often is.

I think that, and despite its past as a political term more than a historical, the primary reason for it ( or of course a modernized version with a higher degree of scientific compliance as the original use is quite vague ) not to be commonly accepted in science today is because it was coined during the Nazi regime and not so much because it, if depoliticized, lacks usefulness.

I still say that the term "Reich" is irretrievably intertwined with the idea of German superiority and right to rule, and thus irretrievably Nazi.

 

[Skandinav]

I would beg to differ, Scientia Excelsia, if anything it is the numeration that is irretrievably intertwined with Nazi Germany.

"Reich" like the Scandinavian "rige/rike/rika" means simply "realm" or "empire", and the German Empire was for example also known as the "Kaiserreich" in Germany.

Edit :
Where do you connect the idea of German superiority and right to rule with the term "Reich" I wonder, are you perhaps thinking of the German colonies and the notion of "Lebensraum" ?

Established mid-20th century race ideologies didn't distinguish between nationalities btw, so it was not a question of "German" superiority, but rather "Germanic" or "Nordic",  and has as such nothing to do with Germany as a state.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Actually, we agree, but what is the "Fourth" Reich but a furthering of the same trend of numeration?  It's the same as calling yourself the "heir" of German Imperialism, and was invented by the Nazis to further their Germano-centric (Just made that up) propaganda.

However, even if Cam was to simply call his clan "The Reich", it would inevitably be associated with Nazism.  The English language is a language of strong contextuality, and it holds a long grudge.

 

[Skandinav]

Oh, I agree completely, and never argued to the contrary.

 

[Spec]

Just look at this thread...

People DO connect the name with Nazi Germany. If you don't want people to think that, change the name. If you don't mind, fine, call yourself Fourth Reich. Or actually, at least translate it. Fourth Empire still means the same, but at least it's not that direct.

 

[Foffy123]

You can't please entire crowd Who cares about people who lost relatives to the 3rd Reich ? Death is death. Many people lost their lives to a sociopath's regime (be it hitler or any other guy).

There is difference between knowledge of the past and condemnation of the past. Today's people randomly condemned few symbols of 3rd Reich but they use it's heritage.

Who cares about people who lost relatives to the 3rd Reich? Maybe those who did loose somebody? You're just totally lacking respect for anyone else. You could have obviously KNOWN that people might be offended if you use this name, and yet you use it. And you keep using it and are defending it although it would not be that bad to change it simply.

Unfortunately you seem to be walking into a discussion/debate without any knowledge of the facts.

First of all, AoC has nothing to do with the clan and I have no idea who he is.
Second of all, I'm not changing the name. I'm still interested to see what people have to say about it.
Third of all, you speak as if I have no idea what's happened regarding Nazi Germany. My grandfather was on the Berlin wall, I'm pretty sure he's told me a thing or two about what's happened and how horrible it is. Now, admittedly I haven't lost anybody in World War II.

I have a question for everyone talking about losing relatives in the war. How many of you actually knew those relatives? How about remembering them? Were you old enough to have any attachment to them? Did it really affect you firsthand? I don't know how many 30+ people play Warband, and that's why I'm asking.

 

[Mastermind]

Unfortunately you seem to be walking into a discussion/debate without any knowledge of the facts.
First of all, AoC has nothing to do with the clan and I have no idea who he is.
Second of all, I'm not changing the name. I'm still interested to see what people have to say about it.
Third of all, you speak as if I have no idea what's happened regarding Nazi Germany. My grandfather was on the Berlin wall, I'm pretty sure he's told me a thing or two about what's happened and how horrible it is. Now, admittedly I haven't lost anybody in World War II.
I have a question for everyone talking about losing relatives in the war. How many of you actually knew those relatives? How about remembering them? Were you old enough to have any attachment to them? Did it really affect you firsthand? I don't know how many 30+ people play Warband, and that's why I'm asking.

Then I understand even less why AoC is defending it with such eager.

Anyways, I've not really lost my grandfather to the war but the things he suffered as a war captivity broke him. Doesn't contribute anything to the subject though as he was captured by Sowjets (I'm german). He also told me a few things about the war.

And if your grandfather really was on the Berlin Wall, I highly doubt that this showed him a lot about Nazis as it was built 1961 (after the war) by the DDR 

 

[MaHuD]

Just look at this thread...

People DO connect the name with Nazi Germany. If you don't want people to think that, change the name. If you don't mind, fine, call yourself Fourth Reich. Or actually, at least translate it. Fourth Empire still means the same, but at least it's not that direct.

I aggree, or change "fourth" into german as well.
Now it just looks like it has been done on purpose.
OP dude is prob a Nazzzi. How sad.

 

[Orion]

I have a question for everyone talking about losing relatives in the war. How many of you actually knew those relatives? How about remembering them? Were you old enough to have any attachment to them? Did it really affect you firsthand? I don't know how many 30+ people play Warband, and that's why I'm asking.

They would have to be over 65 years old, actually. World War 2 ended in '45. Given that most people don't remember anything that happened before they were about two or three years old, I guess they would have to be at least 68 years old in order to be directly emotionally affected by the loss of someone during World War 2.

Then again, there are those who served in World War 2 and didn't die there, but might have died from complications resulting from injuries sustained during the war. If we keep looking at all the "ifs" "ands" or "buts" we're going to stray too far from the topic at hand and get caught up in trivialities.

 

[Condestavel]

If you are nazis, cool.
If you are not nazis, cool.

Freedom 4 all

 

[Meister_Eder]

If you are nazis, cool.
If you are not nazis, cool.

Freedom 4 all

How's that supposed to work?

 

[Condestavel]

If you are nazis, cool.
If you are not nazis, cool.

Freedom 4 all

How's that supposed to work?

Just believe what you want to believe, and let others believe what they want to believe. Keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.
It's self explanatory.

 

[Meister_Eder]

If you are nazis, cool.
If you are not nazis, cool.

Freedom 4 all

How's that supposed to work?

Just believe what you want to believe, and let others believe what they want to believe. Keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.
It's self explanatory.

Self explanatory and naive. Nazis are pretty much the opposite of "Freedom 4 all". Give Nazis the freedom to do what they want and there won't be much freedom for anyone, soon. Nazis are usually the ones who tend to express their opinions unasked, often in a very physical way.
The OP named his clan "The Fourth Reich", knowing where the 3 Reich ideology comes from. Nobody asked him to give his clan a name with a Nazi connotation. But he did and he published it on this website, so he obviously asks for a reaction. I'm glad to see that the reaction is mostly negative.

 

[_HIV_]

You Meister_Eder are a funny funny man ... you make me lol

 

[Condestavel]

If you are nazis, cool.
If you are not nazis, cool.

Freedom 4 all

How's that supposed to work?

Just believe what you want to believe, and let others believe what they want to believe. Keep your opinions to yourself unless asked for them.
It's self explanatory.

Self explanatory and naive. Nazis are pretty much the opposite of "Freedom 4 all". Give Nazis the freedom to do what they want and there won't be much freedom for anyone, soon. Nazis are usually the ones who tend to express their opinions unasked, often in a very physical way.
The OP named his clan "The Fourth Reich", knowing where the 3 Reich ideology comes from. Nobody asked him to give his clan a name with a Nazi connotation. But he did and he published it on this website, so he obviously asks for a reaction. I'm glad to see that the reaction is mostly negative.

Ho so you're a nazi. cool.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

I....don't follow your reasoning.

 

[Condestavel]

If not respecting (and by respecting i don't mean in any way agree but rather live and let live because everyone is intitled to his opinion) other peoples views is a "nazi trait", so people who don't respect someone who believe in nazi believes, are falling to that same trait.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

That...is so flawed.  I suppose it's okay to let a cannibalist cult run through your streets because they deserve respect for their feelings about how your little sister tastes with parsnips?

 

[Condestavel]

What...? 

Ho well I guess I was wrong about you.

You mix freedom of political ideas or ideology (wich were the discussion here) with a farfetch story of cannibals.

But I will humour you. As long as the cannibal cult don't eat my sister or anyone else (thus breaking the law and making someone very angry) they can can think whathever they want. My opinion would be that they are freaks. But as long as they don't bother me, they can think whathever.

I don't like gay stuff either. I think its disgusting. But as long as they don't bother me, and don't disrespect me, they can do wathever they want.

 

[Grunar]

What's wrong with gay people?.