The Famous Shield Wall

[Nosfe]

Can someone explain me why a one line deep shield wall is the favourite tactic of almost all players? When things start to go downhill like 0-3 score on battle the famous shield wall idea pops up everytime. I've seen my fair share of people forming shield walls on lower ground, people shouting "don't break the line"  when flanked and surrounded by cavalry and even under  crossbow bolt rain, shield walls against a non cavalry opponent and believe it or not shield walls with infantry without shields nor any form of spear .

I mean to ask it ingame but while I'm typing "why?" everyone is already in the shield wall. IMHO a shield wall is only good if it's deeper than 2 ranks, with a cavalry force to watch flankers and a good number of archers/xbows behind/flanks. It's not feasible to form them with 20 players.

The poll may seem off-topic but it's the only way I can explain the shield wall love.

 

[Swadius 2.0]

You really need bots for an effective shield wall. Other than that, I'd say the people whom you've played with that thought forming into a tight line in an open a good idea are idiots.

 

[faigulla]

I was in a Rhodok shield wall and we were probably 15, I was in the middle of the line and behind me there were one or two infantry/spearman with some crossbowmen shooting. It was pretty efective especially because we had our backs to protusion in the wall of a ruin. Only the front was exposed.

 

[Nosfe]

Not only people I play with, the people I play against too. The odd thing is they think it's really working. You don't win the round because you took 2 minutes to form a shield wall just to "unform" with the first cavalry charge 5 sec later, it's because the archers and cavalry in your team did better.

Dan_Grr: I'm guessing the wall did most of the work. Not the shield wall, "the wall".

 

[Frostynuggetry]

it depends on map, equipment, allies, and most important, enemy skill and faction

 

[Nosfe]

Every tactic depends on those things. It's just this one is used by allmost all situtations. I'm afraid I will see a Khergit shield wall soon.

 

[Mabons]

Of course, Shield Walls are the most stupid thing I have ever seen in the open. But put a few guys shieldwalling the entrance, can stop any pesky archers shooting in. I was personally in a Shield Wall, and even though when in it, it doesn't do much, it keeps everyone together, and thats usually when we win.

 

[Gobblecoque]

What I've never understood is that it doesn't cross the mind of some to simply turtle in a defensible building.

 

[Arch3r]

Are you one of these cavalries that just go rushing and dies, without participating it teamwork? Shield walls in plain open fields won't work, sure. But near buildings they are good because all your infantry cover each other so cavalry that try to attack one infantry in the rear gets piked by another. Same for archers/xbowmen, they're covered  from cavalry now more than just hiding in houses. Shield walls means teamwork and teamwork and skill decide who wins in M&B, and not mass cavalry or faction, equipment is just a minor part.

 

[SteveO]

We tried turtling in a defensible building once.

Turns out buildings aren't so defensible.  No room to swing about. 

Best building is the towers in village where you have one guy blocking the door and others thrusting with spears from the side, but it only works with Rhodok since they're the only ones with shields large enough to not get killed by foot shots.


I think shield walls work best when they're two or three deep.  That will stop most cav that charge in.  As it is with 1 deep they just charge from behind and keep on going.

 

[Nosfe]

Arch3r: I rarely go as cavalry, I'm mostly an archer. Shield wall - forming a line facing the same direction, holding right click- isn't equal to teamwork. Teamwork is staying together and that doesn't mean each and every player must stay in a line with a shield in hand. There must be other groups with different missons but working for the same goal.

Also I've yet to see a shield wall protecting archers from cavalry.  Cavalry protects you from cavalry, not a simple infantry line in front of you. They protect you from archers though as it's easier to shoot a 10m wide target

 

[SteveO]

Actually cavalry just distracts other cavalry.  Doesn't really protect you from it (unless they're good), just keeps them off you longer.

Archers are a much better anti-cav now (if they can aim at all) since it gets rid of the horses.  As a primarily cavalry player, I fear archers way more than I fear other cav.

 

[Aitchison]

I think it was Mabons that said before, the shield wall itself may not be the most important factor. It is the grouping of the infantry. It is an easy command for anyone to call. When someone calls it everyone knows exactly what it means. For you to say the win has nothing at all to do with the shieldwall or infantry is wrong. It can be a powerful tactic.

To the point that cavalry should kill cavalry, I think that is also wrong. What about pikes and spears? Although the animations at the moment make it a little hard, but I'm sure this will be fixed. Infantry can be just as dangerous to cavalry as they can be to infantry.

 

[Cormac BAMC]

I think it was Mabons that said before, the shield wall itself may not be the most important factor. It is the grouping of the infantry. It is an easy command for anyone to call. When someone calls it everyone knows exactly what it means. For you to say the win has nothing at all to do with the shieldwall or infantry is wrong. It can be a powerful tactic.

To the point that cavalry should kill cavalry, I think that is also wrong. What about pikes and spears? Although the animations at the moment make it a little hard, but I'm sure this will be fixed. Infantry can be just as dangerous to cavalry as they can be to infantry.

also, shield walls have this cultural thing going on, wherein everyone can picture them, but not too many people know what goes into them.

also is that varg vikernes in your avatar

 

[Archonsod]

Can someone explain me why a one line deep shield wall is the favourite tactic of almost all players? When things start to go downhill like 0-3 score on battle the famous shield wall idea pops up everytime.

As the old saying goes, if you're going to fail, at least fail spectacularly

It is the grouping of the infantry. It is an easy command for anyone to call. When someone calls it everyone knows exactly what it means. For you to say the win has nothing at all to do with the shieldwall or infantry is wrong. It can be a powerful tactic.

Not really. Biggest problem is that all the shield walls I've seen have been static, which is stupid. It basically gives the opponents the initiative, and even if somehow you could create an absolutely unassailable shield wall it would still be useless, because we're just going to go and camp the flag spawn.

 

[Lord Rust]

you cannot form shield walls in mount and blade, you can create small tight formations however.

There is a difference between the two though, and an actual shield wall is an utter impossibility in MnB.

 

[Skot the Sanguine]

Whenever we have made a shield wall on the random maps it was usually among trees.  Usually it is only held tight when getting shot at by archers from a distance.  Once the cavalry closes we usually spread out a small amount to maneuver but stay close enough to support each other.  I am guessing the ones you have seen done poorly are by those who are new at using the tactic.  It doesn't always work but usually it does for the times I have been in them.  The best was a tight double row wall of Swadian pikemen we formed on the ruin map at the farm entrance.

 

[Ati]

Too many 300 fans running around?

 

[Archonsod]

Usually it is only held tight when getting shot at by archers from a distance.  Once the cavalry closes we usually spread out a small amount to maneuver but stay close enough to support each other.

Doing that the opposite way around might be a wee bit more effective

 

[Lord Rust]

I've always been amused that people try to adopt tactics proven effective for large armies (of thousands) in games where what they SHOULD do is adopt advanced mob tactics, as that is all they have...an untrained mob, and no, shouting ORGANIZEEE on ventrilo does not make you a trained elite unit ala 300, it just makes you a loud untrained mob, and if you insist on being realistic, you should plan accordingly.

I still say the french approach is the best in warband.