The Eagle and the Wolves original thread.

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Dudro

Knight at Arms
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really? I found it incredible interesting and fun to read.  Best of the who series is the last book though.
 

Bloid

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
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Not that the first one was bad, it was decent; I just like other stuff better.
 

Gwenndolau

Regular
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Bernard Cornwell's Arthur trilogy would be a good read for info on this period as well the books are based from the late 5th to early 6th century, and if you haven't thought of it religion was a major issue in the period sort of a forgotten crusade almost
 

Mad Skillz

Baron
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Gwenndolau said:
Bernard Cornwell's Arthur trilogy would be a good read for info on this period as well the books are based from the late 5th to early 6th century, and if you haven't thought of it religion was a major issue in the period sort of a forgotten crusade almost
Religion will probably play a very minor part in this mod, although there may be some conflict with NPCs over religion.
 

Bloid

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The OP Dudro said this is going to be based on another Arthur series, "A Dream of Eagles/Camulod Chronicles". And fictional treatments of religion in the Arthurian period tend to vary. If I recall correctly, Cornwell said in the afterword of the first book of his "Warlord Chronicles", the religous situation (basically multi-faith conflict) was more conjecture than anything.
 

Spongly

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Great mod idea! I've been hoping for someone to do this for a while. The great thing about this period from a modders perspective is that almost everything is conjecture.

I personally wouldn't worry too much about splitting up Angles, Saxons and Jutes - those distinctions are relatively artificial anyway. The invaders were always divided into innumerable small tribal and clan groupings, but the Britons called all of them "Saxons" and they seem to have called themselves "Englisc" if a collective noun was needed. In the 400s the only important kingdoms of these people are Kent (the Cantware) and Sussex (the Suth Seaxe). Northumbria, Anglia, Wessex and all the others are not founded properly until the 6th century.

The Britons will probably be most like late Romans in the lowlands of southern Britain, and a little more "tribal" the further north and west you go. Powerful kingdoms included Gwynedd in north Wales, Powys in central Wales and parts of western England, Dumnonia in Devon and Cornwall and Rheged in the north west around Cumbria.

The Picts might have been close to a unified kingdom in this period. or certainly were by the 6th century. The Irish were supposed to be fairly unified in the 5th century under Niall of the Nine Hostages, at least in legend. In Britain they are mainly settling Dal Riada (modern Argyll) and Demetia or Dyfed (South west Wales).

Where and what is "Camelod" in these books by the way? A Roman city or a fort?

Good luck with the modding and if you need any historical info I'd be happy to dig it out for you.
 

Dogtits

Veteran
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Really look forward to this mod, a time period I have a great interest in. I would offer assistance but I have no skill or capability...

A quick question to those in the know, what happened to the Durotriges? Coming from Dorset this matter has been concerning me for a while. Would I be right in thinking they had been absorbed by Dumnonia by the 5th century? If so did this happen under Roman rule?
 

Dudro

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Spongly said:
Where and what is "Camelod" in these books by the way? A Roman city or a fort?
Camulod is right below Cambria at the beginning of the Cornish peninsula.  At least in the books.  Then at the end of the penis nsula will be the faction of Cornwall, who will be constatly at war with Camulod.
 

Kolba

Dudro, could you show us some screenshots from mod? I'm just curious how it looks. :razz:
 

Dudro

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As much as I would like to, I'm to much of a noob to do something like that, so you'll all have to wait until Ruthven gets the screenshot of the map for me :cry:
As for screen shots of battles, they'll have to wait for a little bit.
 

Mad Skillz

Baron
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Dudro said:
As much as I would like to, I'm to much of a noob to do something like that, so you'll all have to wait until Ruthven gets the screenshot of the map for me :cry:
As for screen shots of battles, they'll have to wait for a little bit.
I PMed you a guide on how to take a screenshot. look there and figure it out.
 

Dudro

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Troop trees:

                                                                               
mercenary:        farmer-----watchman------caravan guard---------mercenary Eirish swordsman---------galloglas
                                              \            \
                                                \              ------------------------mercenary Sarmatian------------mercenary Sarmatian_lancer
                                                \                                              \
                                                  \                                            -----------------------------mercenary_Sarmatian_horse_archer
                                                  \
                                                  ----mercenary crossbowman-------vet. crossbowman---------mercenary sniper.
                                                         
                                                        German light infantry-----German heavy infantry------------vet. German heavy infantry
                                                               
Romano-British:

Coastal Levy-------recruit-------------legionary--------trained legionary-----------vet legionary
                \          \
                \      light cavalry------heavy cav.----------trooper
                  \
                  -------- skirmisher--------bowman--------vet. bowman

Roman:

auxilia-----------foeditari infantry----------limentii---------pseudolimentii--------------auxilia palatiner 
    \                  \
    \                  comitatense-------------vet.comitatense-----------millarian comitatense
      \   
      skirmisher----levantia----vet.levantia 
          \
          auxilia skirmisher-----sagittarius----vet.sagittarius
                    \
                scholae----------imperial German bodyguard         

Eirish:   

eirish clansman-------eirish footman--------trained footman--------eirish warrior-------------eirish galloglas
                                  \                                                        \
                                    \                                                        ----eirish spearman-------------vet.eirish spearman
                                    \
                                      ----skirmisher--------------bowman---------------vet.bowman.

note:this troop tree goes for all three eirish factions

Saxon:

saxon clansman-------footman-----------trained footman----------warrior------------champion axeman
                              \                          \                              \
                                \                          \                              ----------champion swordsman
                                \                          \
                                  \                          -----raiding horseman-----------vet raiding horseman
                                  \
                                    ---archer------------vet. archer------------champion archer


Cambrian/Pendragon:

Pendragon clansman----------footman------warrior----------veteran warrior-----------champion
          \                                                  \
            \                                                  ----light horseman-----------chiefs guard
            \
              ----archer----------trained archer-----------vet archer-----------master archer

note: Pendragons are the only ones to have the long bow, a brand new invention, which is going to be the second best bow in the game.

Cornwall:

Cornish recruit-------footman-------trained footman---------infantry-----------kings guard
        \                        \
          \                        ---skirmisher--------archer----------veteran archer
          -------watchman

Note:  The watchman is the mercenary troop, due to the massive amounts of mercenary armies Cornwall uses in the novel.


pictish hillman-----pictish footman-------pictish warrior----------pictish woad-------pictish champion
              \                                                                              \
              \                                                                              -----pictish warlords guard(mounted)
                \
                ----pictish skirmisher------trained skirmisher---------vet. skirmisher

Northumbria:

recruit------footman--------trained footman-------guard----------------royal guard
                    \                    \
                      \                    ---archer------chosen archer
                      \
                        \
                          ----danish mercenary----------danish warrior---------danish wolf warrior

Militia troops tree:

armed peasant------militia------------trained militia------------veteran militia----------militia guard
                                \                                  \
                                  \                                  ---------militia horseman
                                  \
                                      \
                                      --------militia archer-------------veteran militia archer
                     


                               






 

Spongly

Knight
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To be honest, watchmen and caravan guards are probably out of place in this mod, while Galloglasses are later medieval Hebridean mercenaries. Crossbows were probably fairly rare in this period as well, although a few carved Pictish stones do seem to show Picts using them.
 

HockerTJ

Sergeant
WBM&BVC
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I loved this series when I first read it. But I don't recall much crossbows if any in the books, the biggest bit was the pendragon long bows.

This is a great time frame to set a mod as there really isn't too much reliable history to cover the dark ages so it kind of gives a free hand to do as you will, and the setup that the books lays out is pretty useful and believable. So good luck and I'll be looking for screen shots. Do try and keep to the story demographics though.
 

Kolba

Yes, crossbows weren't common in Dark Ages. You can replace crossbowmen with archers or skirmishers. Galloglasses were Hiberno-Norse mercenaries from the mid 13th century to the end of the 16th century. They existed earlier, maybe even in 9th century but the first record of galloglasses was in 1259, when Prince Aed O'Connor of Connaught received a dowry of 160 Scottish warriors from the daughter of the King of the Hebrides.

You should seriously change mercenary troop tree, because it's too similiar to Native one.

Regards,
Kolba
 

Dudro

Knight at Arms
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HockerTJ said:
But I don't recall much crossbows if any in the books, the biggest bit was the pendragon long bows.

Do try and keep to the story demographics though.
It doesn't matter to me if crossbows weren't used in the books, because I know they were used.  I just need variety

The story will be the same, in a sense, its just that I'm kind of mushing the timeframe together, So its like while Arthur is high king, Merlyn is a general, not yet a leper.

As for Kolbas request I think I might change that troop tree around.
 

HockerTJ

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Well you could always use different types of bows with the pendragon as a special top tier archer and make some other lower level archers...

considering that a lot of the warrior types didn't look highly upon archers during that time, you could use javelins and what not...
 
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