The disappearance of kinetic energy of the horses

[Norvell9]

When will you be able to solve the problem that spears stop the horses? This is really stupid. When a horse runs towards a soldier at a speed that humans cannot reach, the man simply raises his spear and reach it out,then all the kinetic energy of the horse disappears instantly. Do you think this is reasonable? I don't think so!And this is one of the main reasons why the cavalry is weak so far!
Can you just spend a little time on it? If so,every one would be pleased.

 

[Shun]

When will you be able to solve the problem that spears stop the horses? This is really stupid. When a horse runs towards a soldier at a speed that humans cannot reach, the man simply raises his spear and reach it out,then all the kinetic energy of the horse disappears instantly. Do you think this is reasonable? I don't think so!And this is one of the main reasons why the cavalry is weak so far!
Can you just spend a little time on it? If so,every one would be pleased.

I would love it when at least dead horses would have ragdolls enabled and could knock over/hurt other units.

 

[Stratigo]

When will you be able to solve the problem that spears stop the horses? This is really stupid. When a horse runs towards a soldier at a speed that humans cannot reach, the man simply raises his spear and reach it out,then all the kinetic energy of the horse disappears instantly. Do you think this is reasonable? I don't think so!And this is one of the main reasons why the cavalry is weak so far!
Can you just spend a little time on it? If so,every one would be pleased.

When they code horses to not run headfirst into a wall of spears. Something real horses generally DON'T do

 

[Hairy Yahoo]

Maybe when they implement AI Spear Bracing feature it's worth reconsidering to remove "spears stopping horses".
I just can't imagine how OP cav will be if they just "nerf" spears right away.

And Cav is not weak, you should flank with cav not charge a shield wall from front, that's just hollywood bs, it's not the concept of cavalry designed and used for, a successful flank just breaks the enemy morale in game so I think it reflects purpose of cav well there.

 

[jak1up]

And Cav is not weak, you should flank with cav not charge a shield wall from front, that's just hollywood bs, it's not the concept of cavalry designed and used for, a successful flank just breaks the enemy morale in game so I think it reflects purpose of cav well there.

Yes this ⬆ ...... I love my cavalry, and I don't even use horse archers....

 

[Worldsprayer]

Of interest: Cavalry was never used to just ram into infantry, or at least not preferably, because of the fact that horses are not stupid and they WONT run into a forest of spears...they know they'll die if they do. Typically cavalry was used right at the moment or just after an infantry force collided with another so that the phalanx setup had to go down/redirected. THEN cavalry would race on in. One of the major reasons that infantry historically hated cavalry was not that they got to ride or try and take the glory (though they did), it was because friendly troops very often got trampled in the process of a cavalry charge.

 

[Norvell9]

Maybe when they implement AI Spear Bracing feature it's worth reconsidering to remove "spears stopping horses".
I just can't imagine how OP cav will be if they just "nerf" spears right away.

And Cav is not weak, you should flank with cav not charge a shield wall from front, that's just hollywood bs, it's not the concept of cavalry designed and used for, a successful flank just breaks the enemy morale in game so I think it reflects purpose of cav well there.

I think you guys are mistaken about what I really mean. I mean that after a high-speed collision, even if a horse is intercepted by a spear, it should continue moving forward.(and take the spearman away (this is more in line with the laws of physics) ) Instead of twitching in place after being stabbed by a spear. I never said that the cavalry should charge head-on, but the spear will not only intercept the horse head-on.

 

[Antaeus]

If you're on a horse with high charge damage, that spear holding peasant will be bowled over irrespective of whether their spear stops you. They might even be killed by a pure blood.

Remember a horse isn't suicidal. It doesn't want to charge onto a spear. A horse rearing up at a spear, bayonet or sharpened stake wouldn't be historically unprecedented. I'm with the above. Try charging into those spear peasants when they're facing the other way. Maybe even feint at them with some other cavalry or horse archers to make them look the other way on purpose.

Think yourself lucky they haven't activated a "thrown rider" mechanic when the horse suddenly rears up when some poor peasant with a sharpened stick pokes it into their chest while they're running at 40kmph

 

[Hairy Yahoo]

I think you guys are mistaken about what I really mean. I mean that after a high-speed collision, even if a horse is intercepted by a spear, it should continue moving forward.(and take the spearman away (this is more in line with the laws of physics) ) Instead of twitching in place after being stabbed by a spear. I never said that the cavalry should charge head-on, but the spear will not only intercept the horse head-on.

I do understand your point, yes you are right that is against the law of physics but this is a game and it has to be balanced to deliver satisfying experience, to achieve that balance some weird sh*t happens..

In reality there are 2 possible scenarios that I can think of if you are charging spear infantry with cav:
1) Your horse doesn't allow you to and throw you off.
2) Your horse and the first few lines of infantry dies due to impact and sheer mass of the horse.

To implement such thing, horse should have ragdoll and act like a dynamic projectile after getting killed. This will require massive computing power, each cav charge will be cluster**** framedrop fest, consider dirt,dust,grass particle effects.

RNG factor should be added for horse rearing in relation to riding skill and breed of horse (to mimic Rider-Ride relation, I think if animal believes in you he'll follow you no matter what) there'll be lots of QQ cuz you're leaving the most epic moment, charging a line, to RNGesus.

So yeah it's possible but risky, none of the games have this kind of collision system yet, not even the smaller scale medieval games like kingdom come etc, so M&B franchise which has 1000 agents in battlefield is not likely to deliver such system. What they might do instead remove cavstopping feature of spears with the implementation of ai spear bracing but it'll be dull compared to your suggestion.

I wish someday we'll experience such stuff but it'll be 2030s I think maybe with M&B 3 ?

 

[Norvell9]

I do understand your point, yes you are right that is against the law of physics but this is a game and it has to be balanced to deliver satisfying experience, to achieve that balance some weird sh*t happens..

In reality there are 2 possible scenarios that I can think of if you are charging spear infantry with cav:
1) Your horse doesn't allow you to and throw you off.
2) Your horse and the first few lines of infantry dies due to impact and sheer mass of the horse.

To implement such thing, horse should have ragdoll and act like a dynamic projectile after getting killed. This will require massive computing power, each cav charge will be cluster**** framedrop fest, consider dirt,dust,grass particle effects.

RNG factor should be added for horse rearing in relation to riding skill and breed of horse (to mimic Rider-Ride relation, I think if animal believes in you he'll follow you no matter what) there'll be lots of QQ cuz you're leaving the most epic moment, charging a line, to RNGesus.

So yeah it's possible but risky, none of the games have this kind of collision system yet, not even the smaller scale medieval games like kingdom come etc, so M&B franchise which has 1000 agents in battlefield is not likely to deliver such system. What they might do instead remove cavstopping feature of spears with the implementation of ai spear bracing but it'll be dull compared to your suggestion.

I wish someday we'll experience such stuff but it'll be 2030s I think maybe with M&B 3 ?

maybe just like GTAV

 

[Norvell9]

I do understand your point, yes you are right that is against the law of physics but this is a game and it has to be balanced to deliver satisfying experience, to achieve that balance some weird sh*t happens..

In reality there are 2 possible scenarios that I can think of if you are charging spear infantry with cav:
1) Your horse doesn't allow you to and throw you off.
2) Your horse and the first few lines of infantry dies due to impact and sheer mass of the horse.

To implement such thing, horse should have ragdoll and act like a dynamic projectile after getting killed. This will require massive computing power, each cav charge will be cluster**** framedrop fest, consider dirt,dust,grass particle effects.

RNG factor should be added for horse rearing in relation to riding skill and breed of horse (to mimic Rider-Ride relation, I think if animal believes in you he'll follow you no matter what) there'll be lots of QQ cuz you're leaving the most epic moment, charging a line, to RNGesus.

So yeah it's possible but risky, none of the games have this kind of collision system yet, not even the smaller scale medieval games like kingdom come etc, so M&B franchise which has 1000 agents in battlefield is not likely to deliver such system. What they might do instead remove cavstopping feature of spears with the implementation of ai spear bracing but it'll be dull compared to your suggestion.

I wish someday we'll experience such stuff but it'll be 2030s I think maybe with M&B 3 ?

You are right, but you still misunderstood what I meant. I didn't want to subvert the rules of the game, but simply want to "remove the unreasonable action about spears and horses", nothing more. By the way, someone on Nexusmod has already made such a mod. I think it's great, and it clearly stipulates that the fast horse can break through the infantry, and the slow one will still be stopped by the spear. This is what I meant,not that complicated.

 

[Moton]

When will you be able to solve the problem that spears stop the horses? This is really stupid. When a horse runs towards a soldier at a speed that humans cannot reach, the man simply raises his spear and reach it out,then all the kinetic energy of the horse disappears instantly. Do you think this is reasonable? I don't think so!And this is one of the main reasons why the cavalry is weak so far!
Can you just spend a little time on it? If so,every one would be pleased.

It's about balance and not realism. What should the counter to cav be do you think? Would you prefer that every horse get killed after his first charge aswell?

 

[Norvell9]

It's about balance and not realism. What should the counter to cav be do you think? Would you prefer that every horse get killed after his first charge aswell?

Read #11

 

[Moton]

Read #11

Keep it to modds then. We dont want another warband where in the end you run around with a full cav army and stomp everything on the whole map. As I said, it's about balance.

 

[Xaerdys]

You are right, but you still misunderstood what I meant. I didn't want to subvert the rules of the game, but simply want to "remove the unreasonable action about spears and horses", nothing more. By the way, someone on Nexusmod has already made such a mod. I think it's great, and it clearly stipulates that the fast horse can break through the infantry, and the slow one will still be stopped by the spear. This is what I meant,not that complicated.

You're basically not asking for a more believable representation of physics, but for a feature of spears removed. People told you already, that this will not happen at the moment because spears at the moment are balancing cav.

Spear bracing will help (as the use of the pike did in RL). But a physically sound behaviour of horses is unlikely. Because even if a horse would charge through spears, it's no like it would do that and then just turn around to charge again. Also you would be unlikely to carry the spearman with it, but much more likely the spear. This would act as some form of obstacle, and also hurt your horse whenever it is touching something. Thats the problem with arguing with physics, you need to draw a line somewhere and defend its place.

This feature of polearms annoys me aswell, not so much in the field battle, but in horse and lance tournament rounds because at the moment, the person unhorsed is often in the better position.
But then again, it's not that much an issue for me. Other things imho should take priority right now. As this thread proves, this issues is not as much a no-brainer as it apparently seems to you.

So, for the time being, you should use the mod you mentioned.

One Question:

maybe just like GTAV

Are you talking about a GTA V or a different game?
Are there a thousand horses battling in GTA V? I mean, Hairy Yahoo said this:

[...]
To implement such thing, horse should have ragdoll and act like a dynamic projectile after getting killed. This will require massive computing power, each cav charge will be cluster**** framedrop fest, consider dirt,dust,grass particle effects. [...]
so M&B franchise which has 1000 agents in battlefield is not likely to deliver such system.

I mean, just think about 200 vs. 200 cav all acting independently.

Does GTA V do something comparable?

 

[Norvell9]

Keep it to modds then. We dont want another warband where in the end you run around with a full cav army and stomp everything on the whole map. As I said, it's about balance.

Well,that was...ruthless,I thought Warband was fine.

 

[Moton]

Well,that was...ruthless,I thought Warband was fine.

I mean M&B Warband was better then Mount&Blade in that regard but still the problem was there. I understand that if people really like cav they want them to be powerfull, that feeling probably gets reinforced by the fact that they where infact powerfull in reallity aswell. I just dont like the fact that there is one unit type that will totally wreck everything else.

But I do want them to be powerfull, dont get me wrong. They should be some of the strongest units but there has to be some balance because it's very easy for a player to use these mechanics and the AI simply cant and the result will be another game where I end upp with an army that only have cav.

 

[Norvell9]

I mean M&B Warband was better then Mount&Blade in that regard but still the problem was there. I understand that if people really like cav they want them to be powerfull, that feeling probably gets reinforced by the fact that they where infact powerfull in reallity aswell. I just dont like the fact that there is one unit type that will totally wreck everything else.

But I do want them to be powerfull, dont get me wrong. They should be some of the strongest units but there has to be some balance because it's very easy for a player to use these mechanics and the AI simply cant and the result will be another game where I end upp with an army that only have cav.

You are absolutely right! That's what I'm always talking about, I never want the cavalry to be invincible, I just simply think this BUG is not reasonable, too many people think I want to make the cavalry invincible, it's really ruthless

 

[Shun]

I mean M&B Warband was better then Mount&Blade in that regard but still the problem was there. I understand that if people really like cav they want them to be powerfull, that feeling probably gets reinforced by the fact that they where infact powerfull in reallity aswell. I just dont like the fact that there is one unit type that will totally wreck everything else.

But I do want them to be powerfull, dont get me wrong. They should be some of the strongest units but there has to be some balance because it's very easy for a player to use these mechanics and the AI simply cant and the result will be another game where I end upp with an army that only have cav.

I agree. I image for cavalry to have more glass cannon characteristics, where it is a strong force when used right (eg. charging the flank/rear) , but is more vulnerable when caught of guard, while being very expensive to raise. Bascially, a cav attack should implicate a stronger risk/reward type decision.

 

[Hairy Yahoo]

I agree. I image for cavalry to have more glass cannon characteristics, where it is a strong force when used right (eg. charging the flank/rear) , but is more vulnerable when caught of guard, while being very expensive to raise. Bascially, a cav attack should implicate a stronger risk/reward type decision.

That image for cavalry is of post-renaisaince period when shields became useless because of either the quality of full plate armor or usage of gunpowder. Infantry began using heavier two handed weapons that could both fight enemy infantry and fend off cavalry charges easily like pikes poleaxes or zweihanders. Then cav became more like a glass cannon unit, until then a cav with sword was enough to stomp on footsoldiers, mostly risk free. Just imagine even if you have ak-47 in your hand if you see 300 horses, not even with riders on them, galloping towards you, by the tremors on earth you'll start to sh*t your pants, now imagine yourself carrying a 180 cm broom with a tiny breadknife on point, do you think you pose any risk ?