The dev is beating around the bush

Users who are viewing this thread

MP numbers have dropped off significantly since the release, and a lot of them have already migrated back to warband which is seeing a playercount resurgence as of late.

If what you say is true (and i have no reasons to doubt it), it means that they blew away a lot of their resources for nothing?
Yes, I blame the development of MP (in a SP game) for the terrible state SP has been pushed out.
 
Don't expect a major feature release until summer... enjoy the early access so many of you requested repeatedly... "Please I prefer to play a broken game than wait one more year" Okay, here's your broken game, I'm enjoying it while I try to send every crash report, make suggestions and patiently wait for devs news.

You all should change your complaints to a suggestion format after proper testing, if you are not testing properly and only going to rant over and over I think you should use reddit or even facebook.

The game will be released in 2021, remember that.
 
To be honest, TaleWorlds in general seems like a pretty cool place to work, with almost no deadlines to meet, and a 'done when it's done' mentality. I can't imagine stress is a big feature there!

i agree. With financial support from the government, subsides, and amazing vacation package it must be a great place to work.
 
A game being developed for 8, likely 10+ years now, is a massive letdown. That means somewhere along the way they screwed up majorly, and have released early access because they ran out of funding due to poor decision making/implementation. They are not a small "indie" studio, they have over 100 employees IIRC. Surely if the gold standard, CD Project Red, can make a game as flawless as Witcher 3 with ~100 people, they can make a game in 8 years that merely runs on most people's PC's without crashing. How can a single, newbie developer make an early access game on Steam that, while sucking, doesn't cause this many crashes and bugs?

Many can't even load the fricking game or play for any normal amount of time without crashing. That isn't a normal timeline by any stretch of the imagination. Outside of the obvious performance (or non-performance entirely) issues, the game is so basic you have to wonder what exactly they've been doing all this time.
To be fair computers have changed a lot in 8 years. 144, 4K, etc were developed under that time frame. It’s what happens when it takes a decade to develop a game. Every time they were done technology was way better so they had to scrap it and start over. The perfect way to get that free government money and commit hours to a game that never gets developed.

They have no time constraints and work on their time. Imagine a job where you could submit your work whenever you feel like it?
 
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...come-source-or-not.414500/page-2#post-9360704

Nope. This comes with the territory. They see something that may be effecting the game so they make a change to it to see if it undoes the effect. The effect was that Caravans were not being attacked as often as they should have been. Did they make too big of a change? Sure, and that HAPPENS...this is why the game is in early access, to figure this **** out.

Wait. Are you saying that mods improve games? No...way...
Huh? That is so silly.

You know they didn't bother to test this change on the beta and just released to the live release, so there is no wonder there are so much backlash and memes about it. Again, this isn't anything new, and I've personally seen it happening since the beta.

Also, you do realize not a single mod tool has been released for the game, and it's only been out for a few weeks. I don't know what you're trying to prove with that "Are you saying that mods improve games?" sarcasm, because that shouldn't be the case, especially since it's EA. We have dedicated mods surrounded on fixing the basics of BL, nevermind the ones that in general add so much to the game experience.

Look, I don't care how long it takes TW and whatnot, but they are now turning to 'let modders fix it' mentality, which is so dangerous for any game company, as we will see less thought out and innovative features.
 
To be fair computers have changed a lot in 8 years. 144, 4K, etc were developed under that time frame. It’s what happens when it takes a decade to develop a game. Every time they were done technology was way better so they had to scrap it and start over. The perfect way to get that free government money and commit hours to a game that never gets developed.

They have no time constraints and work on their time. Imagine a job where you could submit your work whenever you feel like it?

I agree on the technology changes, but it's their job (and Nivida, Intel, and AMD, etc.) to make sure their product can run on it. Jobs where there is no time constraint are typically failed projects for good reason. No pressure to do anything makes people lazy and complacent. The "I'll get it done tomorrow attitude" is never something you hear from successful people and companies. I understand taking a little bit longer, but you don't think an entire decade for a game that looks like a moderately upgraded pre-existing game is a letdown? We might as well just give them a free pass for another 5 years so they can chill. Pressure is good, otherwise nothing gets done.
 
All of the foresaid stuff isn't even specific to defending TW or any other game company.
When did I talk about the modders solving critical bugs? I clearly stated modders can fix what TW mess up but not stuff like critical bugs, MP bugs or whatever more content TW wants the base game to have. Nowhere have I stated I believe modders will be able to fix server-sided bugs or critical engine bugs. As per your rhetoric that modders create what lies in their personal interest ...they're the players, they probably play the game more than the developers. They know what we want. If you read the Beta forums you know how frequent it was that TW just override a bunch of factual and sensible ideas, suggestions or opinions just because it didn't lie in their path.

As an earlier respondent said, TW do fix a lot of minor bugs and they do tweak a lot of stuff with these almost daily patches. However, as another user argued in some forgotten thread; it would also be possible to believe that TW deems the game close to finished because of their behavior, and there's no intention of adding more content since they're so focused on these minor tweaks which seem to mess up the game more than fixing it.
 
As an earlier respondent said, TW do fix a lot of minor bugs and they do tweak a lot of stuff with these almost daily patches. However, as another user argued in some forgotten thread; it would also be possible to believe that TW deems the game close to finished because of their behavior, and there's no intention of adding more content since they're so focused on these minor tweaks which seem to mess up the game more than fixing it.
That's just a baseless assumption though. How do we know they are just focused on minor tweaks?
What we do know is that lots of features are missing and that they intend to implement them over the next year. Just because we see mostly crash and bug fixes (and some tweaks) currently, it doesn't mean they aren't working on these features. Last time I checked they had ~100 employees, it's entirely possible that the majority is working on more substantial updates coming over the next weeks / months.
If we don't see big improvements in the next few months I'll start to get worried, but right now it seems that patches are mostly about getting the game to run for most people and addressing some low hanging fruits.
 
They have no time constraints and work on their time. Imagine a job where you could submit your work whenever you feel like it?
The reason why it's good for games to take loans in order to develop, because the bank has an expert board looking at the prospects and likelihood of the idea/project being a success, and you're on a time restraint to pay those dinars back. A lot of kickstarter games where you donate in order to (hopefully) receive the game that is promised are never fulfilled, even less so has all the features which were promised.

The second thing about game development is to be aware of games that are self-published. Today there's a lot of crappy games on Steam made by whoever, with purchased third-party textures or models, and the game code itself might be configured to scrape your computer clean off personal details when you run them. Publishers also keep track of the time, since they want the game to be published in order to get their investment money back, but they also offer the game developers support with PR and most of the time, also equipment/rent costs.

TaleWorlds didn't take a loan as far as we know, and they're self-published after leaving Paradox Interactive. They've run off Warband earnings and Turkish state funds since 2012. They often play down the amount but it doesn't get rid off the fact that it's basically free money. Another known reason is the redoes, both because of having to develop a game that's up to today's standards, but also because of going back on decisions and ideas (whatever those may have been as the game still got the basic bandit camps and a story that a wattpad user could've received five dinars for writing).

I find the dev blog from 17/08/17 laughably in terms of them implying games that are done on deadlines are bad, and games made by love are great. Also the irony of releasing the game into Early Access and having previously stated; ''We don’t believe in releasing a game before it is ready just because we might miss the hype...For example, some companies have publishers, shareholders, investors and owners who press for a release date, even if it means cutting content from a game.''
 
That's just a baseless assumption though. How do we know they are just focused on minor tweaks?
What we do know is that lots of features are missing and that they intend to implement them over the next year.
Do we truly know that? I haven't seen an ordered list by a TW employee here on the forums, nor anywhere else explicitly listing the ''lots'' of features that would be missing. Take dedicated server files for granted, but as for single-player they previously implied they had disabled features/mechanics. We were told smithing would not be in-game, anything surrounding children/family was nowhere to be seen, and that it'd be a very basic interaction with clan management and castle/town-building, but those features were all activated and in-game upon launch, only with some minor stuff not being completely done. So as far as we actually know, it might very well just be the minor tweaks and bug fixes to these previously told ''disabled features'' that's left to finish before the game is gold, which they stated would be within this year.
 
Do we truly know that? I haven't seen an ordered list by a TW employee here on the forums, nor anywhere else explicitly listing the ''lots'' of features that would be missing. Take dedicated server files for granted, but as for single-player they previously implied they had disabled features/mechanics. We were told smithing would not be in-game, anything surrounding children/family was nowhere to be seen, and that it'd be a very basic interaction with clan management and castle/town-building, but those features were all activated and in-game upon launch, only with some minor stuff not being completely done. So as far as we actually know, it might very well just be the minor tweaks and bug fixes to these previously told ''disabled features'' that's left to finish before the game is gold, which they stated would be within this year.

Check the steam page.
 
Well all of you are wrong... but right at the same time.

It all evolves around budget.

As soon as you release a game and charge money for it... you will get people demanding things. That is as natural as then seeing the cash rolling in. You can't have one without the other. Unless you are North Korea where you can execute non-compliant people with an AA cannon.

8 years is a long time, however depending on how much work you have to do + additional work that is caused by bad design choices and poor/indecisive management decisions... suddenly 8 years is not that big of a time frame. And in those 8 years you have to feed all those people that slave for you. Plus all those BS HR team-buildings and other corporate stupidities (yes I'm an engineer in a corp, how can you tell?). Money is just draining away.

I wonder how much this release was really "we are ready to do it" and "let's do it because we need fresh money rolling in". Who knows. It is a hard shot to call if you are the one having to call it.

What happened happened we have an EA. It is decent to a degree, I had quite some fun hours in it I must say. There are people that are happy with what they got, there are people that want more.

There is a problem however. How to deliver more? The thing is publicly available and people are doing youtube play troughs in attempt of raking that advert money in. In essence dirty clothes are being aired and anything you do to it people will judge it. Noone cares it is EA. They say they do but go ahead and break their save progress introducing new features, ending their campaign progress and they will want to impale you Vlad style.

So how do you roll out the changes without breaking too many eggs? But hey, who cares, the game got released, it crashed Steam payment processing... MONEYYYY... Bankruptcy avoided, loan-sharks are fed and bonuses are paid out.. who cares about pissed off devs and people that bought the game. They can walk it off. Suddenly people that are calling shots can afford calling stupid shots again and off we go, the cycle continues until money starts running low again.

It is like Game of Thrones without those two idiots screwing up the last couple of sessions. All the twists and turns and convolutions and politics and corporate back and forth. And unfortunately there is no god of tits and wine either.

So yeah you are all right and all wrong at the same time.
 
Check the steam page.
You do realize the Steam store page state precisely what I was implying about only minor stuff being left to fix? According to the Steam store page, all that's left to fix is additional language localisation, some voice overs, some quests might be missing, more unique towns and then some stuff about the multi-player with the addition of actual ranked matches (+ dedicated server files which they state nothing about, but I hope they're focusing on before the MP community dies entirely). The rest is basically in-game already or obvious statements such as balancing, and the focus on balance is what my original post was all about.

I still remember how the Steam store page looked back in 2017 and up until this year. There was supposedly a section about in-depth diplomacy which got removed entirely, likely because that's not their intention anymore. Now the overall Steam store information outside of the Early Access notice has been changed into tl;dr: ''Woah! You can ride into battle with a sword in your hand!''. Anyway, hello Armagan.
 
You do realize the Steam store page state precisely what I was implying about only minor stuff being left to fix? According to the Steam store page, all that's left to fix is additional language localisation, some voice overs, some quests might be missing, more unique towns and then some stuff about the multi-player with the addition of actual ranked matches (+ dedicated server files which they state nothing about, but I hope they're focusing on before the MP community dies entirely). The rest is basically in-game already or obvious statements such as balancing, and the focus on balance is what my original post was all about.

I still remember how the Steam store page looked back in 2017 and up until this year. There was supposedly a section about in-depth diplomacy which got removed entirely, likely because that's not their intention anymore. Now the overall Steam store information outside of the Early Access notice has been changed into tl;dr: ''Woah! You can ride into battle with a sword in your hand!''. Anyway, hello Armagan.
Add all the features that are called incomplete on the steam page and I wouldn't call it minor tweaks.
 

idk for some reason i thought you are saying that modders implementing something express what people desire the most, no idea where it came from xd. But you still mention it, so i must repeat myself that if modder makes something it doesnt mean community wants it. Maybe only popular ones.

If you read the Beta forums you know how frequent it was that TW just override a bunch of factual and sensible ideas, suggestions or opinions just because it didn't lie in their path.
Oh well thats good to hear, meaning TW has some vision of the game. Im glad to know that if reddit goes mad about some bull**** that doesn't mean TW gonna go full retard just to please the mob. Maybe i look at it through the pink goggles but lol do you really expect me to read all the beta forum?
 
Add all the features that are called incomplete on the steam page and I wouldn't call it minor tweaks.
I don't care for Russian or Chinese localisation, do you? There's already a German community localisation. I wouldn't be surprised if community localisation is done before TW localisation. So let's not make a joke out of ourselves and call that a major feature.

Adding all-unique towns is a minor detail in my opinion, the game is fully playable from that perspective. This is again something TW could've asked the community to help with, as it's mostly finished. However, it's a minor issue and not something critical, unless you'd like to call it a truly game-changing major update? Towns and castles are also something that's already in-game, thus it's an existing feature, and probably not in your ''lots of features''-list, right?

I can go on, but the easiest thing would be for you to quote all those features that apparently only your eyes are able to spot. Mine are probably getting old and blurry as I am the old age of 25. So yeah, I'm still looking for the ''lots of features''-list you were talking about. You appear to deem my interpretation of the Steam store page information unjust, so will you be able to provide a non-bias list so I can clearly see what major features are upcoming and aren't already in-game currently being tweaked and balanced?

It kinda feels like I am arguing against myself even when I'm not the one having the burden of proof currently. Editing current features is supposedly called tweaking, balancing and bug-fixing, and not a lack of major features. They are not disabled nor upcoming, but very much in-game. It's not difficult to comprehend the difference. You were talking about ''lots of features''. Quote them? That shouldn't be difficult for you.
 
I understand where you're coming from but this is still a very bad mindset for a developer to have. If a player has to install a dozen mods just to get a balanced game experience then something is seriously wrong. Bethesda for example has relied on this mantra for years and now their most recent game has been a never-ending disaster of magnificent proportions.
Also the barrier for entry for modding is now higher than ever. The old module system was terrible, but it allowed non-coders like myself to easily implement changes and add new scripts. C# is a lot more complex, and the graphics system basically requires you to read a physics paper to understand. We're going to see a smaller number of more in-depth mods rather than a plethora of fixes.
Finally and I think most importantly, it takes a superhuman amount of autism to want to fix the hundreds of issues in this game in one go, however the only way to fix many of these issues is to do it all at once. Entire mechanics need to be overhauled and no small limited-scope mod is going to that.

100% agree with this. Honestly I find it baffling that some people seem to think that mods are the solution to basic gameplay features being missing or broken. Sure, it will work for you as a temporary fix, but it does not mean that those should not be fixed in the base game asap.

I honestly don't even think people should use mods yet if they want to provide reliable feedback on the game. If you are just playing for your personal enjoyment, then sure, go ahead. But providing feedback on a modded game really isn't a good way to push development forward.
 
Back
Top Bottom