The Coalition Wars - End of the Snowballing Problem

[Tulag]

The Coalition Wars

This game still suffers from snowballing problem. Thanks to developers' high efforts it's been reduced but it's still a problem. I suggest if a faction grows or gets stronger than other factions. There should be coalition formed against them. Other weaker factions neighboring them will stop warring eachother and form a coalition against and fight against that strong faction until it gets weakened and pushed back to their original lands.
When that strong nation gets weakened enough "The Coalition" will disperse and neighboring factions can keep warring eachother again.
I know this would be a major change, but looks like the only solution that will protect weak factions and city states against powerful factions.

If this gets implemented, city states' lifespan will be even longer and they even can expand into small kingdoms. To check my other thread about city states: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/independent-city-states.437539/

Let me express myself better at the map down below. Imagine that Khuzait and Vlandia expanded and caused other factions to get small and weak. There has to be coalition formed against these massive major powers. Then coalition war will start and will not end until that faction that formed coalition against gets weakened and pushed back.

Let's say that Sturgian coalition forces captured Amprela that belonged Northern Empire before. The settlement will go directly to Northern Empire even though Sturgians captured it.
And when Northern Empire forces captures Tyal that belonged Sturgians before, settlement will directly go to Sturgians.

Coalition against Khuzait Khanate:
-Principality of Sturgia
-Northern Empire
-Southern Empire
-Aserai Sultanate

Coalition against Kingdom of Vlandia
-Western Empire
-Principality of Sturgia
-Kingdom of Battania
-Aserai Sultanate

And there's no way they can win a war against coalition. That will be the end of snowballing problem.

 

[Moton]

This is something I've also been talking about. Let AI's form none offensive pacts and even ally themselves with eachother. If you also give new factions a chanse to rise through rebellion this could become a really cool and dynamic world with endless replayability value. Not sating it already isn't a dynamic and cool world but this would improve it endlessly.

 

[Tulag]

This is something I've also been talking about. Let AI's form none offensive pacts and even ally themselves with eachother. If you also give new factions a chanse to rise through rebellion this could become a really cool and dynamic world with endless replayability value. Not sating it already isn't a dynamic and cool world but this would improve it endlessly.

I believe that TaleWorlds is capable of doing all these. They just need time. This may not be implemented today, tomorrow or next month. But I'm sure we will see this next year. If this gets implemented to the game, this game will be a treasure.

 

[Tulag]

@mexxico Can you take a look when you're available? Is this doable? If it is doable then when will we have this perk? Thank you.

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I like the idea (some other users have commented about it too) and I would add the opposite effect to the equation. The larger a faction is, the more world power I mean; the greater the chance of civil war and splintering.

It is quite unlikely that something like this would be introduced in Bannerlord Native, however the sum of Separatism + Revolutions + Shattered Kingdoms + Houses of Calradia + Allegiance Overhaul would be an interesting terrain to play on IMO.

 

[danEN]

It's a good idea but I think it should only be an option once a single faction owns like 60% of the map or so, otherwise no faction would ever become a power. Alliances definitely need adding though.

 

[stevehoos]

They won't do it. I'd stop wasting your time with these great suggestions.

 

[vonbalt]

They won't do it. I'd stop wasting your time with these great suggestions.

Don't listen to him people, if we can't make the devs implement those atleast we'll make them wake up at night from nightmares from this forum

 

[stevehoos]

Don't listen to him people, if we can't make the devs implement those atleast we'll make them wake up at night from nightmares from this forum

 

[Antaeus]

Is snowballing still a problem in 1.5.7 or are we just rehashing old narratives?

I'm not sure we've had enough time to know if snowballing is still a problem. That said, more complex diplomacy and alliances are always welcome.

 

[Apocal]

Is snowballing still a problem in 1.5.7

In the sense that one faction conquers the entire continent in five or ten years: no.

In the sense that the content gets divided between two stable mega-factions: no.

In the sense that one faction is big enough after two decades to fight and win two wars at once: no.

In the sense that the Khuzaits almost always do well and beat the Northern Empire eventually: yes.

 

[Antaeus]

In the sense that the Khuzaits almost always do well and beat the Northern Empire eventually: yes.

Which is ironic for me, as in my current game, the Northern Empire has literally pushed the Khuzaits back onto the steppe. They have succeeded in this because my Western Empire has taken Sturgia which has the net effect of protecting their exposed flank. They have pushed them all the way from Poros - where the Khuzaits were at one point - this is why I ask if we know for certain whether it is still a problem in 1.5.7. We haven't had a lot of time to gather real evidence and my experience contradicts your opinion.

My theory has always been that the Khuzaits benefit from player interactions and the three way struggle in the empire as much as they have benefited from the speed/cavalry buff.

Still, as I said, better diplomatic relationships and alliances would be welcome. With the right diplomacy in place, I can envisage a situation whereby the Empire becomes largely undefeatable. The historic precedent would be the Roman crisis of the third century, when the broken elements of the Empire successfully held off enemies that the Empire as a whole couldn't because it reduced the complexity of logistics. Only once the frontiers had stabilised, was it possible for the empire to again forcefully reunite the itself.

 

[Sh1mbo]

this is a really bad idea, what happens if the khuzait form a coalition with another OP faction?? this could be worse than current snowballing

 

[Cornelis]

I believe that TaleWorlds is capable of doing all these. They just need time. This may not be implemented today, tomorrow or next month. But I'm sure we will see this next year. If this gets implemented to the game, this game will be a treasure.

great post you made I assume that Taleworlds is going somewhere along the lines of this along in development because we do have the three empires trying to merge together in the story line with the dragon banner so idk maybe alliances we will find more about alliances alliances would be a critical part of bannerlord I just hope they don't become a burden to fight maybe alliances/coalitions could have cohesion like the armies and break down in relation over time as to not become too powerful

 

[Tulag]

this is a really bad idea, what happens if the khuzait form a coalition with another OP faction?? this could be worse than current snowballing

Already strong factions won't be able to join coalitions. Only weak states

 

[LuisPocho]

I also believe that snowball shouldnt be slowed down, but instead it should be fought by the rest of the factions. With no snowball the game can turn really repetitive, a complete stall that can only be finished by the player. A disaster.

There is a lot of way to stop snowballs at some point (civil wars would be the best one imo).

Also, the momment the snowballing starts can be manipulated. For example I would like to see factions start really really weak; weak enough so they cant even take a town.... then with time, events, laws, techs, traditions etc factions could get stronger and stronger and more agresive. A bit like the final momments of the roman empire, first raids, then migrations, then invations, then usurpations.

 

[Apocal]

And there's no way they can win a war against coalition. That will be the end of snowballing problem.

You missed out on the earlier time when the snowballing faction could (and did!) beat the living **** out of the next four, all at once.

My theory has always been that the Khuzaits benefit from player interactions and the three way struggle in the empire as much as they have benefited from the speed/cavalry buff.

I don't think that is the case. In formally comparing results between tests and stated player experiences doesn't show much discrepancy -- obviously throwing out the more fanciful, hysterical or outright BS accounts with no evidence -- while the players that did report limited Khuzait snowballing almost universally (in previous patches) emphasized their key role in limiting the Khuzait expansion.

Obviously a player could influence things so the Khuzaits win harder but I don't think it was a key factor.

 

[HugoTheFrenchMan]

You missed out on the earlier time when the snowballing faction could (and did!) beat the living **** out of the next four, all at once.



I don't think that is the case. In formally comparing results between tests and stated player experiences doesn't show much discrepancy -- obviously throwing out the more fanciful, hysterical or outright BS accounts with no evidence -- while the players that did report limited Khuzait snowballing almost universally (in previous patches) emphasized their key role in limiting the Khuzait expansion.

Obviously a player could influence things so the Khuzaits win harder but I don't think it was a key factor.

Unless you directly try to stop khuzait expansion by beating armies they will hardly stop. So did they emphasize that they stopped them directly or just starved cities or got lords for factions they're fighting.

 

[vonbalt]

If i remember correctly warband had a system like this no (or was it in diplomacy)? When a kingdom started to get too strong 2 or 3 others would declare war on it basically at the same time to "curb that threatening realm's power" in a sense that it had became a threat to the geopolitics of Calradia so everyone banded together to stop it and restore balance.

 

[Sigaretovic]

It could be a good suggestion, but i get the feeling it's not adressing the cause of the issue.

The cause is that khuzait is overpowered or has too much benefit from its cultural trait (speed bonus). The AI can form coalitions all you want, but i guarantee you that most of the times it will be a coalition against the khuzait.

That's why i don't believe this will solve the problem. To be honest i would like it that most play throughs a faction becomes dominating, as long as there is a healthy spread in the factions that become the dominators.

@Antaeus : n=1 doesnt count my friend.