The class and perks system is unable to cover all game modes sufficiently

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Guratz

Recruit
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A good example is the voulgier in siege/skirmish/tdm compared to the voulgier in captain. the Voulgier typically costs 120 points in the latter, and you can pick up a sword and shield instead of a voulge. Incredibly useful in siege/skirmish/tdm, as the sword is well balanced for dueling and the shield is useful for blocking arrow. It essentially makes you a sergeant but with less armour, which is a good deal since sergeant is a big 160 points cost, saving you 40 points. In captain, voulgiers still have the sword and shield perk. The problem arises when you realise voulgiers only have 1 more soldier than sergeants. There is no reason for you to get the shield in this scenario almost ever. You will always be better off picking the sergeants or just staying with the normal voulgier by picking the "more armour" perk.

Captain needs its own unique tweaked class and perk system. Replacing with a axe might be better or just give them an extra soldier or 2 as a perk
 

vfkaseke

Regular
WB
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A good example is the voulgier in siege/skirmish/tdm compared to the voulgier in captain. the Voulgier typically costs 120 points in the latter, and you can pick up a sword and shield instead of a voulge. Incredibly useful in siege/skirmish/tdm, as the sword is well balanced for dueling and the shield is useful for blocking arrow. It essentially makes you a sergeant but with less armour, which is a good deal since sergeant is a big 160 points cost, saving you 40 points. In captain, voulgiers still have the sword and shield perk. The problem arises when you realise voulgiers only have 1 more soldier than sergeants. There is no reason for you to get the shield in this scenario almost ever. You will always be better off picking the sergeants or just staying with the normal voulgier by picking the "more armour" perk.

Captain needs its own unique tweaked class and perk system. Replacing with a axe might be better or just give them an extra soldier or 2 as a perk
There's been talk of one more perk that's mode dependant being added for a while in the community. This would help by quite a bit.
 

jon01

Knight
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I don't know if this is related to your point exactly, but people outside Captains were requesting better "middle infantry" for each faction, so TW changed/buffed the Vlandian Shock Infantry, yet this wasn't what anyone asked for specifically, and I think it ended up as a failed attempt at a band-aid fix.

I can imagine what people wanted as decent "middle infantry" was basically what you can afford for 1000 gold as infantry in Warband (i.e. 1h sword, decent shield, polearm, middle armour, middle helmet). Otherwise, maybe something similar to the Wildling would have sufficed? Basically, a troop that isn't as expensive as heavy infantry, isn't as buffed as heavy infantry, yet is much more reasonable than the recruit infantry.

Yet, it seems they can't make an entirely new troop for any given faction, with the rigid class system (another reason it's terrible), so they tried turning the Shock Infantry into a decent "middle infantry" for Vlandia, which I don't think worked out well at all.

The real issue is just how pathetic the recruit infantry is. It's terrible as a minimum loadout. It doesn't even work as a joke loadout (similar to playing naked), because it's not a customisation by the player, it's a prebuilt troop made by TW, and it's forced on the player like a slap in the face sometimes, which is terrible for new players.

It would definitely serve Siege/TDM better if recruit troops were improved into something more reasonable, while Shock Infantry can be nerfed (along with the removal of crushthrough).

In any case, I agree with you that the modes should be split. It's been brought up plenty of times since beta well over a year ago, and people responded very negatively to the class/perk system since early 2018, due to the horrible impact it would have on MP overall.
 

Alkix

Recruit
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One reason you might take the voulgier with sword and shield over the sergeant in captain mode is for the increased run speed, if you want a better chance of chasing archers down.
 

Guratz

Recruit
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One reason you might take the voulgier with sword and shield over the sergeant in captain mode is for the increased run speed, if you want a better chance of chasing archers down.
you'd still be too slow to chase archers as putting your shield up slows you down
 

Guratz

Recruit
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I don't know if this is related to your point exactly, but people outside Captains were requesting better "middle infantry" for each faction, so TW changed/buffed the Vlandian Shock Infantry, yet this wasn't what anyone asked for specifically, and I think it ended up as a failed attempt at a band-aid fix.

I can imagine what people wanted as decent "middle infantry" was basically what you can afford for 1000 gold as infantry in Warband (i.e. 1h sword, decent shield, polearm, middle armour, middle helmet). Otherwise, maybe something similar to the Wildling would have sufficed? Basically, a troop that isn't as expensive as heavy infantry, isn't as buffed as heavy infantry, yet is much more reasonable than the recruit infantry.

Yet, it seems they can't make an entirely new troop for any given faction, with the rigid class system (another reason it's terrible), so they tried turning the Shock Infantry into a decent "middle infantry" for Vlandia, which I don't think worked out well at all.

The real issue is just how pathetic the recruit infantry is. It's terrible as a minimum loadout. It doesn't even work as a joke loadout (similar to playing naked), because it's not a customisation by the player, it's a prebuilt troop made by TW, and it's forced on the player like a slap in the face sometimes, which is terrible for new players.

It would definitely serve Siege/TDM better if recruit troops were improved into something more reasonable, while Shock Infantry can be nerfed (along with the removal of crushthrough).

In any case, I agree with you that the modes should be split. It's been brought up plenty of times since beta well over a year ago, and people responded very negatively to the class/perk system since early 2018, due to the horrible impact it would have on MP overall.
It's definitely related to what I was saying and you raise some good points. I focus more on captain because I play it more but tdm/siege/skirmish needs tweaking just as much. the recruits, especially the Vlandian Peasant and the Empire Recruit and absolute garbage and hell to play as (Vlandian Peasant has no good one handed weapon at all, and has to rely on the billhook most of the time. The Empire Recruit has to rely mostly on their javalins to do noteworthy damage, because they've been forced into the skirmisher class build, which makes them just an inferior aserai skirmisher. their 1 handers aren't terrible but their other gear is.)
 

Ling*

Sergeant at Arms
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Captain needs its own unique tweaked class and perk system.
+1 @AVRC Please consider this. This is what the multiplayer community wants, both sides agree on this. If I ran a poll it would get 99% support. Separate the class and perk balances between the modes. Captain should have its own unique classes and perks. What is the big issue with this????