The battle for Calradia. Check forums.
- 主题发起人 Arch3r
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For the time being, our troop tree is:
tier 1: Recluta dell'Armata
tier 2, infantry: Armigero
tier 2, ranged: Tiratore
tier 2, cavalry: Cavalleggero
tier 3: Gonfaloniere (standard bearer)
And for leg protection, we were thinking about the normal native leather boots, which offer little protection (thus balancing the armor) and fit well with the breastplate.
tier 1: Recluta dell'Armata
tier 2, infantry: Armigero
tier 2, ranged: Tiratore
tier 2, cavalry: Cavalleggero
tier 3: Gonfaloniere (standard bearer)
And for leg protection, we were thinking about the normal native leather boots, which offer little protection (thus balancing the armor) and fit well with the breastplate.
Ya know I do think limiting tier 2, ie what will be standard infantry to only leather armour is a bit crazy. I am pretty sure the standard armour for your average soldier in the middle ages involved metal.
I am not that big a fan of all the other restrictions either. I like the potential for upgrades that has been brought in but you can easily devise a system for upgrades which does not include so many arbitrary restrictions.
I was hoping for a wide variety of interesting troops though and this seems to be getting restricted un-necessarily. Sure it might be easier to balance if you force everyone to follow these rules but I liked the potential for originality.
PS
Nike, he meant leg protection given by that armour. I think
I am not that big a fan of all the other restrictions either. I like the potential for upgrades that has been brought in but you can easily devise a system for upgrades which does not include so many arbitrary restrictions.
I was hoping for a wide variety of interesting troops though and this seems to be getting restricted un-necessarily. Sure it might be easier to balance if you force everyone to follow these rules but I liked the potential for originality.
PS
Nike, he meant leg protection given by that armour. I think
You wanted Infantry with board shields, heavy plate armour, two-handed swords, bastard swords and pistols with bullets all for one class...try to be original with these rules.Plazek 说:Ya know I do think limiting tier 2, ie what will be standard infantry to only leather armour is a bit crazy. I am pretty sure the standard armour for your average soldier in the middle ages involved metal.
I am not that big a fan of all the other restrictions either. I like the potential for upgrades that has been brought in but you can easily devise a system for upgrades which does not include so many arbitrary restrictions.
I was hoping for a wide variety of interesting troops though and this seems to be getting restricted un-necessarily. Sure it might be easier to balance if you force everyone to follow these rules but I liked the potential for originality.
PS
Nike, he meant leg protection given by that armour. I think
Can a clan choose to have only ONE class? I mean we're mercenaries, we wont have troops with us, we wont have towns/villages/castles... we will just be mercs... only one class, maybe two (archer/xbowmen)
I believe I wanted that to be our best as in tier 3 unit. No need to get snarky Arch3r.
I did not even want guns until YOU suggested I test them to see if they will fit into the mod.
Furthermore I only wanted plate armour if it was possible, you were yet to mention anything about armour when I designed the class.
I designed that troop with all the limitations you had described then. So there is no reason to complain that I had made a troop that might be OP when it was designed following your rules.
Besides we are in a beta test phase are we not, so arguably the best thing I could do to test this mod would have been design the best possible class. So we could then improve balance and THEN impose limitations for actual evidenced reasons.
I guess I thought we were going to be making a nicely balanced mod and that if I took plate armour it would have significant disadvantages with regards to movement speed, or cost on a kingdom level.
Not to mention that flintlock pistols are extremely inaccurate, really slow to reload compared to a X-bow or a bow and would probably have much more limited ammo(and perhaps restrictions in aquiring them in campaign).
Not forgetting that a board shield by my imagining would probably have low resistance, and speed so as to be poor in melee probably also with no higher than average health.
Oh and I decided to keep 2h swords even when I spoke to you about what we were doing with bastards. So you should know full well that my last iteration of that troops had no mention for bastard swords.
So would this troops even be overpowered? It would only have 2h swords so would be pretty useless in close quarters, inside buildings, alleyways or even just in a tightely packed melee. It would have heavy plate armour so would be slower than most troops and considering how pistols are inaccurate at any considerable range after a shot or maybe 2 enemy troops would easily be able to force it into melee. Sure it has a large board shield but it cannot use it in melee (only has 2h weapons) and it would have low resistance so be vulnerable to the amrour piercing x bows that plate would also be vulnerable to.
When I was discussing the creation of this class the other 22nd higher ups thought it would be a failure but because it has mention of guns plate and big swords you seem to think it will be all powerful when although each of these pieces of equipment has large strengths they also each have large drawbacks.
You can imply that all I want is to make extremely unbalanced troops and that is why I don't like your new restrictions but that would be a fallacy.
Besides you reeling of some string of things does not add any reasons for why your new limitations are in fact a good thing.
You are yet to explain why standard infantry will be limited to leather.
Also why standard archers ar elimited to cloth.
Both of which fall more readily into the category of clothing rather than armour. Which in my opinion makes no sense for tier 2 soldiers. Where mail and higher should be standard for infantry and heavy leather or even light mail standard for archers.
@ Arcas as you will be a clan of mercenaries rather than simple individual mercenaries which have to use Urists merc tree you will be able to design your own troops. If you want to limit yourselves to one class only I am sure that will not be a problem. You will at least be able to choose only one class to use even if you have to provide 3 or whatever.
I did not even want guns until YOU suggested I test them to see if they will fit into the mod.
Furthermore I only wanted plate armour if it was possible, you were yet to mention anything about armour when I designed the class.
I designed that troop with all the limitations you had described then. So there is no reason to complain that I had made a troop that might be OP when it was designed following your rules.
Besides we are in a beta test phase are we not, so arguably the best thing I could do to test this mod would have been design the best possible class. So we could then improve balance and THEN impose limitations for actual evidenced reasons.
I guess I thought we were going to be making a nicely balanced mod and that if I took plate armour it would have significant disadvantages with regards to movement speed, or cost on a kingdom level.
Not to mention that flintlock pistols are extremely inaccurate, really slow to reload compared to a X-bow or a bow and would probably have much more limited ammo(and perhaps restrictions in aquiring them in campaign).
Not forgetting that a board shield by my imagining would probably have low resistance, and speed so as to be poor in melee probably also with no higher than average health.
Oh and I decided to keep 2h swords even when I spoke to you about what we were doing with bastards. So you should know full well that my last iteration of that troops had no mention for bastard swords.
So would this troops even be overpowered? It would only have 2h swords so would be pretty useless in close quarters, inside buildings, alleyways or even just in a tightely packed melee. It would have heavy plate armour so would be slower than most troops and considering how pistols are inaccurate at any considerable range after a shot or maybe 2 enemy troops would easily be able to force it into melee. Sure it has a large board shield but it cannot use it in melee (only has 2h weapons) and it would have low resistance so be vulnerable to the amrour piercing x bows that plate would also be vulnerable to.
When I was discussing the creation of this class the other 22nd higher ups thought it would be a failure but because it has mention of guns plate and big swords you seem to think it will be all powerful when although each of these pieces of equipment has large strengths they also each have large drawbacks.
You can imply that all I want is to make extremely unbalanced troops and that is why I don't like your new restrictions but that would be a fallacy.
Besides you reeling of some string of things does not add any reasons for why your new limitations are in fact a good thing.
You are yet to explain why standard infantry will be limited to leather.
Also why standard archers ar elimited to cloth.
Both of which fall more readily into the category of clothing rather than armour. Which in my opinion makes no sense for tier 2 soldiers. Where mail and higher should be standard for infantry and heavy leather or even light mail standard for archers.
@ Arcas as you will be a clan of mercenaries rather than simple individual mercenaries which have to use Urists merc tree you will be able to design your own troops. If you want to limit yourselves to one class only I am sure that will not be a problem. You will at least be able to choose only one class to use even if you have to provide 3 or whatever.
Elric_de_Melnibone
Knight at Arms
I have to agree with some of Plazeks' points, but especially with these two.
I think tier 2 soldiers should get mail armor.
Also, I was planning to add gunpowder based high tier mercenaries(Arquebusier(tier 4), Sharpshooter&Harquebusier(both tier 5))
and some bandit classes with crude guns, so I got no problem with them.
Actually firearms nicely fill the gap between bows and crossbows with their ability to reload while moving.
Furthermore they are far from from being overpowered with their low accuracy and the delay to shoot.
Also, I was planning to add gunpowder based high tier mercenaries(Arquebusier(tier 4), Sharpshooter&Harquebusier(both tier 5))
and some bandit classes with crude guns, so I got no problem with them.
Actually firearms nicely fill the gap between bows and crossbows with their ability to reload while moving.
Furthermore they are far from from being overpowered with their low accuracy and the delay to shoot.
Sent the item list.
Tomorrow, the stats.
Tomorrow, the stats.
Under current rules if it has metal in it might as well be plate. Think of tier 3 as metal armour rather than plate.
Tier 2 is leather.
I also forgot to mention how classing all metal armour in the same class is ridiculous on its own.
There is a vast vast difference between full plate armour and a breastplate, let alone full plate and a mail shirt.
Also I believe right now you are allowed only 1 single tier 3 class. So this means pretty much all troops will be made up of people in cloth and leather. As only the tier 3 class is allowed actual armour.
Tier 2 is leather.
I also forgot to mention how classing all metal armour in the same class is ridiculous on its own.
There is a vast vast difference between full plate armour and a breastplate, let alone full plate and a mail shirt.
Also I believe right now you are allowed only 1 single tier 3 class. So this means pretty much all troops will be made up of people in cloth and leather. As only the tier 3 class is allowed actual armour.
As he said at the top of that post it is a concept and it is still a beta. I will be surprised if it does not.
Tier 1 as cloth is fine.
Tier 2 as padded cloth -> light leather is not.
compared to
Tier 3 all metal.
The scope of tier 3 is massive. The strengths of plate etc are far far greater than those of some crappy mail shirt. Yet padded leather versus padded cloth they are both pretty sucky. The scale of difference is much less.
We either need to make at least 5 tiers of armour. Or alteratively change Tier 2 to say padded cloth -> mail then tier three is mail+.
Or drop the material restriction and make it an armour rating restriction.
Maybe one faction has loads of breast plate armour but they are some retarded barbarians who cant make it well so it has an armour rating equivalent to that of well made mail. Of course the model and textures would have to fit. I do not want plate armour that has the armour rating of cloth so that your militia can look badass.
Tier 1 as cloth is fine.
Tier 2 as padded cloth -> light leather is not.
compared to
Tier 3 all metal.
The scope of tier 3 is massive. The strengths of plate etc are far far greater than those of some crappy mail shirt. Yet padded leather versus padded cloth they are both pretty sucky. The scale of difference is much less.
We either need to make at least 5 tiers of armour. Or alteratively change Tier 2 to say padded cloth -> mail then tier three is mail+.
Or drop the material restriction and make it an armour rating restriction.
Maybe one faction has loads of breast plate armour but they are some retarded barbarians who cant make it well so it has an armour rating equivalent to that of well made mail. Of course the model and textures would have to fit. I do not want plate armour that has the armour rating of cloth so that your militia can look badass.
Hethwill
Master Knight
Plazek has some insight here.
The access to high end armour may not the be the fighting style of some "groups". Imagine ZHG, all archers, or the Khans, they won't use plate for sure, so what they want the "treasury" for !? There must be equivalents to spend treasury in all equipment range.
Say if you spend tier 3 armor, you couldn't buy tier 3 horses, or weapons. The point is, each group finding it's own way up the equipments tiers and using whatever equipment becomes available, through control of territory and facilities gaining access to it and selecting the most adapted to their style, and that doesn't mean high end armor always.
In a further note, the merchants should have a 50% impact on availability of supplies.
The access to high end armour may not the be the fighting style of some "groups". Imagine ZHG, all archers, or the Khans, they won't use plate for sure, so what they want the "treasury" for !? There must be equivalents to spend treasury in all equipment range.
Say if you spend tier 3 armor, you couldn't buy tier 3 horses, or weapons. The point is, each group finding it's own way up the equipments tiers and using whatever equipment becomes available, through control of territory and facilities gaining access to it and selecting the most adapted to their style, and that doesn't mean high end armor always.
In a further note, the merchants should have a 50% impact on availability of supplies.
