The Bannerlord Banner Poll

Are you satisfied with the current way banners are implemented in Bannerlord (everyone within a fact

  • Yes, I like that there are no color differences in the banners backgrounds and sigils.

    Votes: 75 15.5%
  • No, something must be done about Bannerlord's banners.

    Votes: 349 72.1%
  • I really don't care.

    Votes: 60 12.4%

  • Total voters
    484
Best answers
0
For some incomprehensible reason the developers at TaleWorlds think that it’s a good idea for everybody within a faction to have a banner with the exact same color scheme (faction color as the background and a yellow/golden sigil in the middle). This has led to the invariable, nearly indistinguishable atrocities pictured below:



If this way of doing banners in Bannerlord remains, it will completely eliminate that special character, that certain je ne sais quois, that particular attitude that is displayed in unique banners. The developers claim that they offer a banner editor, but I beg to differ. Choosing the shape of your sigil and nothing else about your banner, the very thing that announces your arrival and who you are, is no banner editor. At most it is a sigil editor (even that is generous). I am baffled that a game named Bannerlord has such a lackluster, rudimentary, uninspired way of implementing banners.

Currently the only defining thing about any lord’s personal banner is the shape of their sigil and nothing else. I propose that something must be done, for this cannot stand! Several members of the community have voiced their concern about the current banner format, and some have outlined logical, simple, and intriguing alternatives. Terco, for example, has proposed this:
Terco_Viejo said:
I've been thinking of a less restrictive solution and I've come up with a plausible scenario. Taleworlds tells us that the faction color prevails and is fixed; okay. However, what if we broaden the color spectrum by restricting it to the original faction? By taking faction color and broadening its spectrum through nuances, the possibilities would be greatly expanded and these would add more variety of designs if shapes were applied too.

A quick Tercosketch:



Let's take as a reference the color of the northern Empire faction for the base of the banner. The original color is purple. If we enlarge that colour by giving it at minimum the colour white and maximum black, a range of tonalities appear that could be used without losing the essence of the faction.

On the other hand we find the symbol. In principle, it is not restricted to any color; therefore, it could be given any color from the Hue palette.

The doubt I have with the system proposed by Taleworlds is as follows. And when do we create our own faction? In principle we will not be subordinate to using any fixed color other than the one we decide ourselves...

Therefore, two scenarios are presented:
As a vassal - the base color of our banner will be restricted to the color spectrum of our faction.
As ruler - free choice in the editor's Hue.

In the banner editor should appear different tools for element positioning, scaling, shape selection, symbol selection and color selection.
Personally I really like it and think it’s better than what is currently implemented (even if it is not ideal). Terco’s solution allows for more banner variation while still conforming to the developers wishes of keeping the banners background the same faction color.

I hope that something changes before early access, or at least before full release. However, I doubt that anything will change unless a large enough portion of the community also feels that the current way banners are done in Bannerlord is unacceptable and voice their disapproval. I invite all members of the community to voice their opinions.
 
Last edited:

Ford Perfect

Squire
WB
Best answers
0
I understand the developer's point of view on this particular topic, but I don't agree. This solution is basically the same as making everyone carrying the save her AND sigil too, no way I'm going to remember some subtle differences between them (when the sigils are similar as well). Plus from that screenshot it looks like the same exact banner is used for now armies, now I hope they are all armies serving the same Lord, otherwise it's just...bad. I want to see a banner and remember it, I want to see a banner and be reminded of the Lord carrying it, and I want to be able to personalize mine and be recognizable. I honestly was never confused in Warband with all the different banners and colors, I don't know why changing that, and not just expanding it.
 

Phalnax811

Sergeant
WBWF&SVC
Best answers
0
I do like when Factions are generally the same color. That said, I definitely want to see different shades/tints/fields/patterns on all factional banners. I like the cohesion but not the execution.

One color for the sigil on the same colored field (for every lord in the faction) is boring and unimaginative.  After ~10 years we shouldn't be having this conversation! #roar
 

John the Roleplayer

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Phalnax811 said:
I do like when Factions are generally the same color. That said, I definitely want to see different shades/tints/fields/patterns on all factional banners. I like the cohesion but not the execution.

[...]
Well put.

As I've said before, and sorry for repeating myself, my main concern is, that while we may tell clans apart in the overview (as pictured in the OP) by learning their devices, on the battlefield they will all look the same, maybe apart form those with shields. It would add a lot of character to the clans, if they appeared distinct on the field and would form smaller units within the larger ones of an organised army. You could do a lot of roleplaying with that, by reacting to a clan's performance in battle in many different ways.

It's good that factions have a homogeneous style, but as a compromise to keep elements of both approaches, a secondary colour, variations in shade, or simple patterns could be added to the faction colour for each clan. 
 
Best answers
0
Phalnax811 said:
I do like when Factions are generally the same color. That said, I definitely want to see different shades/tints/fields/patterns on all factional banners. I like the cohesion but not the execution.

One color for the sigil on the same colored field (for every lord in the faction) is boring and unimaginative.  After ~10 years we shouldn't be having this conversation! #roar
Agreed. It's perplexing. As of now you can't even decide what kind of field you have on your banner, the only option is solid (faction color) and a yellow sigil. So for all of the different lords and clans there will only be 8... eight different colors for banners... For the love of the gods Warband did banners better.
 

SturgiaStrong

Veteran
Best answers
0
Terco should design banners for Taleworlds  :roll:
At first when I saw video from gamescom, I have thought that all lords had single banner design. In warband I memorized different lords by their banners. So it's big disappointment for me
 

enemy_man

Knight at Arms
M&BWBNWVC
Best answers
0
I prefer how it is in Warband where every lord has their own banner. It gives some personality to the otherwise quite bland characters. Now that we have clans in Bannerlord I think it would be super nice to have unique heraldry for every clan. It just makes sense seeing as heraldry was such a big deal during medieval times.

As for identifying friends or enemies during battles and such there already exist other ways. The little icons over friendly troops in battle, the differing armor and horse designs, the colored party names and troop numbers on the campaign map etc.

I truly hope this is something the people over at Taleworlds are willing to reconsider.
 

Latannan

Recruit
Best answers
0
I like that they have the same colour. You instantly know on the singleplayermap and in battle who is ally/enemy. Developers are busy with adding/adjusting/fixing mechanics. There will be mods who change this soon after Tools are available anyways. Its kinda stupid to demand "change bannereditor !!!111" while the mechanics are not working as intended.
 
Best answers
0
Latannan said:
I like that they have the same colour. You instantly know on the singleplayermap and in battle who is ally/enemy. Developers are busy with adding/adjusting/fixing mechanics. There will be mods who change this soon after Tools are available anyways. Its kinda stupid to demand "change bannereditor !!!111" while the mechanics are not working as intended.
Definitely entitled to your opinion, but making a change to allow that the banners in Bannerlord are not indistinguishable from one another wouldn't take that much time or resources. Heck, this change could be made in less than a day. As another community member already pointed out - there are already many ways to distinguish what kingdom a party fights for, both on the overworld map and on the battlefield. Having only 8 different solid color banner backgrounds in Bannerlord seems beyond stupid to me. In my mind it defies logic. Also, as stated previously, Terco's solution would allow for the 'every member of a kingdom having the same color' in their banner parameter without resorting to everyone having indistinct banners.

SturgiaStrong said:
Terco should design banners for Taleworlds  :roll:
At first when I saw video from gamescom, I have thought that all lords had single banner design. In warband I memorized different lords by their banners. So it's big disappointment for me
I couldn't agree more with everything you said!
 

Captain Obvious

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Terco is a master of photoshop, he truly is. I think he has basically shown the perfect balance between the two ideas for banners and would do perfect.
 

Teje1997

Recruit
WBNWVCWF&SM&B
Best answers
0
Captain Obvious said:
Terco is a master of photoshop, he truly is. I think he has basically shown the perfect balance between the two ideas for banners and would do perfect.
Can't agree more.
 

Malcet

Recruit
Best answers
0
Well, if bannerlord is supposed to represent earlier medieval society than warband, then the designs are pretty historically accurate - if you look at flags and coats of arms of european kingdoms from 9-13th centuries, their banners are actually quite similar to bannerlord's - usually a simple, single-colored sigil on a plain, single-colored background or even simpler than that. Here's a few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Portugal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_León
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Castile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Normandy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872–1397)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1025–1385)
And banners from muslim countries of that time were often even more simplistic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
So if you want to blame someone for the new banner designs you'd have to blame early-mid medieval banner designers. I personally think the design is quite fitting for the timeframe that bannerlord is meant to represent.
 

SturgiaStrong

Veteran
Best answers
0
Malcet said:
Well, if bannerlord is supposed to represent earlier medieval society than warband, then the designs are pretty historically accurate - if you look at flags and coats of arms of european kingdoms from 9-13th centuries, their banners are actually quite similar to bannerlord's - usually a simple, single-colored sigil on a plain, single-colored background. Here's a few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Portugal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_León
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Castile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Normandy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872–1397)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1025–1385)
And banners from muslim countries of that time were often even more simplistic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
So if you want to blame someone for the new banner designs you'd have to blame early-mid medieval banner designers. I personally think the design is quite fitting for the timeframe that bannerlord is meant to represent.
You are talking about state's coat of arms though. And theme of thread is personal coat of arms of lords
 

Malcet

Recruit
Best answers
0
SturgiaStrong said:
Malcet said:
Well, if bannerlord is supposed to represent earlier medieval society than warband, then the designs are pretty historically accurate - if you look at flags and coats of arms of european kingdoms from 9-13th centuries, their banners are actually quite similar to bannerlord's - usually a simple, single-colored sigil on a plain, single-colored background. Here's a few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Portugal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_León
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Castile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Normandy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872–1397)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1025–1385)
And banners from muslim countries of that time were often even more simplistic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
So if you want to blame someone for the new banner designs you'd have to blame early-mid medieval banner designers. I personally think the design is quite fitting for the timeframe that bannerlord is meant to represent.
You are talking about state's coat of arms though. And theme of thread is personal coat of arms of lords
Well a state's coat of arms was the same as the king's coat of arms. If the king had such a simplistic coat of arms then it's reasonable to assume that it would be the general rule for all lords.
 

John the Roleplayer

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Best answers
0
Malcet said:
Well, if bannerlord is supposed to represent earlier medieval society than warband, then the designs are pretty historically accurate - if you look at flags and coats of arms of european kingdoms from 9-13th centuries, their banners are actually quite similar to bannerlord's - usually a simple, single-colored sigil on a plain, single-colored background or even simpler than that. Here's a few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Portugal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_León
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Castile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Normandy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872–1397)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1025–1385)
And banners from muslim countries of that time were often even more simplistic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
So if you want to blame someone for the new banner designs you'd have to blame early-mid medieval banner designers.
I personally think the design is quite fitting for the timeframe that bannerlord is meant to represent.
Keeping the design simple is definitely a good thing, both because of historic comparison and visual readability in game. The designs in Terco's composition in the OP are very nice, but somewhat complicated. It should be possible to find a compromise though, between that and the current unicolour design, by adding a simple pattern to the main faction colour for each clan.
 

Varrak

Baron
WBWF&SNW
Best answers
0
I like that banners of the lords have same color background within factions, i wish symbols over common color were a little bit strong to show differences.

Beside AI lords, we players should be able to design or own banner without any limitation of color, as terco showed in previous page. Such banner editor for players would be sweet.
 

TylerWilley04

Recruit
Best answers
0
Benjamin Bones said:
For some incomprehensible reason the developers at TaleWorlds think that it’s a good idea for everybody within a faction to have a banner with the exact same color scheme (faction color as the background and a yellow/golden sigil in the middle). This has led to the invariable, nearly indistinguishable atrocities pictured below:



If this way of doing banners in Bannerlord remains, it will completely eliminate that special character, that certain je ne sais quois, that particular attitude that is displayed in unique banners. The developers claim that they offer a banner editor, but I beg to differ. Choosing the shape of your sigil and nothing else about your banner, the very thing that announces your arrival and who you are, is no banner editor. At most it is a sigil editor (even that is generous). I am baffled that a game named Bannerlord has such a lackluster, rudimentary, uninspired way of implementing banners.

Currently the only defining thing about any lord’s personal banner is the shape of their sigil and nothing else. I propose that something must be done, for this cannot stand! Several members of the community have voiced their concern about the current banner format, and some have outlined logical, simple, and intriguing alternatives. Terco, for example, has proposed this:
Terco_Viejo said:
I've been thinking of a less restrictive solution and I've come up with a plausible scenario. Taleworlds tells us that the faction color prevails and is fixed; okay. However, what if we broaden the color spectrum by restricting it to the original faction? By taking faction color and broadening its spectrum through nuances, the possibilities would be greatly expanded and these would add more variety of designs if shapes were applied too.

A quick Tercosketch:



Let's take as a reference the color of the northern Empire faction for the base of the banner. The original color is purple.  If we enlarge that colour by giving it at minimum the colour white and maximum black, a range of tonalities appear that could be used without losing the essence of the faction.

On the other hand we find the symbol. In principle, it is not restricted to any color; therefore, it could be given any color from the Hue palette.

The doubt I have with the system proposed by Taleworlds is as follows. And when do we create our own faction? In principle we will not be subordinate to using any fixed color other than the one we decide ourselves...

Therefore, two scenarios are presented:
As a vassal - the base color of our banner will be restricted to the color spectrum of our faction.
As ruler - free choice in the editor's Hue.

In the banner editor should appear different tools for element positioning, scaling, shape selection, symbol selection and color selection.
Personally I really like it and think it’s better than what is currently implemented (even if it is not ideal). Terco’s solution allows for more banner variation while still conforming to the developers wishes of keeping the banners background the same faction color.

I hope that something changes before early access, or at least before full release. However, I doubt that anything will change unless a large enough portion of the community also feels that the current way banners are done in Bannerlord is unacceptable and voice their disapproval. I invite all members of the community to voice their opinions.

If the banner customisation looked like this, it will be really cool
 
Best answers
0
Malcet said:
SturgiaStrong said:
Malcet said:
Well, if bannerlord is supposed to represent earlier medieval society than warband, then the designs are pretty historically accurate - if you look at flags and coats of arms of european kingdoms from 9-13th centuries, their banners are actually quite similar to bannerlord's - usually a simple, single-colored sigil on a plain, single-colored background. Here's a few examples:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Portugal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_León
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Castile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Normandy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872–1397)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hungary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bulgarian_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1025–1385)
And banners from muslim countries of that time were often even more simplistic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayyubid_dynasty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid_Caliphate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid_Caliphate
So if you want to blame someone for the new banner designs you'd have to blame early-mid medieval banner designers. I personally think the design is quite fitting for the timeframe that bannerlord is meant to represent.
You are talking about state's coat of arms though. And theme of thread is personal coat of arms of lords
Well a state's coat of arms was the same as the king's coat of arms. If the king had such a simplistic coat of arms then it's reasonable to assume that it would be the general rule for all lords.
Your assertion, or should I say assumption, is inapplicable here my friend. As Mr. Strong put it, this concerns personal coat of arms that distinguish different families within a sovereign nation. Historically the devices, colors, and the very background design all signified one thing or another about a family.
 

Hopseflop

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBNWVCWF&S
Best answers
0
Benjamin Bones said:
Your assertion, or should I say assumption, is inapplicable here my friend. As Mr. Strong put it, this concerns personal coat of arms that distinguish different families within a sovereign nation. Historically the devices, colors, and the very background design all signified one thing or another about a family.
Except that he actually is in the right as far I know. Let me show you some noble family banners from the Netherlands from around this period.

Van Amstel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Amstel_family

Egmond
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egmond_family

Van Arkel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_van_Arkel

The van Amstel banner, has multiple colors, so it is not unthinkable to have more complicated banners. Sometimes a noble family combined a banner with another family which resulted in more complex banners. Nevertheless, the vast majority only have two colors.

I do not mind that only two colors are used since I don't have a preference for Calradia. the simplicity is quite clear for the player in my opinion. However, I would like to see that modders and the player do have more options.