The approach to MP has failed, and what could be done to revive it

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VicbossOG

Regular
Brandis' post hinges on the "If", which yours doesn't have.
I stopped reading after that because my post indeed has an 'if' right here.

'Five bucks, that guy has failed so many times in his life, we wonder **if** he will be incompetent in the future and fail again.'
 

five bucks

Knight
I stopped reading after that because my post indeed has an 'if' right here.

'Five bucks, that guy has failed so many times in his life, we wonder **if** he will be incompetent in the future and fail again.'
Stopping reading seems to be a bad habit of yours. The placement of the if is important. Where it's placed in OP's sentence it doesn't imply incompetence was the reason Bannerlord's current model has failed. When it's placed in your sentence it directly implies incompetence was the reason for failure.

OP's argument is saying "I want X to happen through my idea, which will only not work if TW is incompetent" - therefore, OP is not saying TW is incompetent, because he is arguing for his idea.
 

Namakan

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Going F2P would make MP a hellscape with people constantly getting new accounts to evade punishments.

Sell MP at 15€, maybe 10 on a sale every once in a while coinciding with a F2P weekend. Not sure what to do about SP pricing, lowering it a tad and still including MP would probably be the best?

I'm not sure new factions or new classes wouldn't be too much, but maybe they can do something like a rotation.
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
TW doesn't care about it. Adding skins or battle pass won't make the game any better.
You're right that TW doesn't seem to care. I am sure that some devs care, but the higher ups seem like they don't care. I'm guessing that's because from a business perspective, there's not much reason to care about MP.

MP is treated like a slapped on component to SP, and the priority list seems to be simply checking boxes of what needs to be in MP based on a plan made a while ago. Thanks to the efforts of Nin3, the combat parameters and game balance were adjusted and improved over time, but always in small increments. And at least in the case of combat parameters, literally held back by SP hardcoding for the ridiculous swing radius and I'm sure other things as well.

At the moment, it seems like the 1.7.2 MP patch is completed, but has been held back by SP for weeks now. This is just speculation of course, and it isn't impossible that some horrific MP bugs were discovered that are slowing down SP. But I'm guessing it's the other way round.

A cheaper, separate MP, would allow more autonomy and more focus on MP. In other words, encouraging TW's overall approach to the game to focus more on MP instead of being an afterthought.

How is Brandis a forum moderator when he says things like this, "If TW is incompetent and would only hire/assign incompetent people to MP, then yes, obviously F2P would fail in the same way the original approach has. "

Your level of tact is as incompetent as you believe their game design to be.

As five bucks pointed out, "if" is critical to that sentence. It was a hypothetical in response to someone else's comment.

To clarify: my opinion is that MP devs have overall been good, but due to lack of resources, can't do much. That's obviously complete speculation. Nin3 could have browsed Reddit all day and made random interns do his work, however, we can be fairly certain that's not the case.

I'm intentionally saying that public-facing devs have been fine, while blaming unnamed "higher ups."

Also, forum moderators are not affiliated with TaleWorlds.

Going F2P would make MP a hellscape with people constantly getting new accounts to evade punishments.

Sell MP at 15€, maybe 10 on a sale every once in a while coinciding with a F2P weekend. Not sure what to do about SP pricing, lowering it a tad and still including MP would probably be the best?

I'm not sure new factions or new classes wouldn't be too much, but maybe they can do something like a rotation.
Yeah that definitely would be a problem with F2P. $5 to $15 would maybe be a good range.

I think most factions have a quite a bit of room for new classes. There's a lot of archtypes to be explored, and enough weapon/perk diversity to keep adding new ones before factions feel too similar.
 

OurGloriousLeader

Grandmaster Knight
I don't know if it's all that complex. Mods will within a month have the SP equipment system and combat stats implemented (some are already working so maybe even less time) and use battle or similar.

Rather than keep fighting this and balancing classes/factions that will instantly be abandoned by a core group of MP, they should just accept this and implement it along with the release of custom servers, thereby mitigating the fracturing of the playerbase that is going to occur when without this, 50% of everyday players move to the CRPG mod (or whatever proves the main mod).

Of course, they won't do this, but this is what they should do - along with some basic improvements to combat etc that has been badly needed for years now, and again will likely be fixed within a month by modders when finally put in their hands.
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
I don't know if it's all that complex. Mods will within a month have the SP equipment system and combat stats implemented (some are already working so maybe even less time) and use battle or similar.

Rather than keep fighting this and balancing classes/factions that will instantly be abandoned by a core group of MP, they should just accept this and implement it along with the release of custom servers, thereby mitigating the fracturing of the playerbase that is going to occur when without this, 50% of everyday players move to the CRPG mod (or whatever proves the main mod).

Of course, they won't do this, but this is what they should do - along with some basic improvements to combat etc that has been badly needed for years now, and again will likely be fixed within a month by modders when finally put in their hands.
That definitely seems like what will happen. Mods will have many things players want and the novelty of being outside of TWs hands will be appealing.

However, for the purpose of a large competitive scene, I think mods are restrictive. Like many on here, I play new medieval combat games as they come out, and I'm sure many of them have tryhard communities that "fix" the combat from their perspective on their own servers/mods.

Which they might have. But from my perspective, if the base game is meh, then I won't stick around. There's also the problem that getting good at the mechanics of a mod that only a tiny community plays, and plays prolifically at that, doesn't feel rewarding and is very hard to get into. Like I'm not going to sink 4k hours into a MORDHAU combat mod so I can say, "wow I'm better than 15 active players!"

My hope in the past, and currently, is that if a combat mod and competitive mode/ruleset comes out that's widely popular, that TW embraces it and makes it the official ranked mode to help prevent fracturing. From my perspective, official ranked is the best pipeline to get new players into a competitive scene, and is what most new players will default to trying if they're curious about competitive.
 

cruzader79

Regular
Ignoring the mainstream, if someone's interested in medieval combat, Mordhau is $30, For Honor is $15, Conqueror's Blade is F2P, and Chivalry 2 is $40.
they are all trash, believe you me, I won them all, they got old real fast.

Bannerlord is rarely updated
true, they MUST separate SP from MP updates

Mods and custom servers won't save the scene
Also true, many people are waiting for this, but I don't see a significant increase in pop, in fact it would be very thin, many server with very few people on them or just one full like what is currently happening with GK_NA_Battle.

Sell MP for $0 to $10.
won't happen, they already have the money of our copies.

Generate Revenue off New Content
Agree, but like I said they already have our money and apparently don't want more..

They should be doing this year events, like halloween, introduce skeleton armies and other fantasy races, make it very limited.

XP weekends

Loot boosters

and you nailed it here, PERSONAL BANNERS

make helmets and shoulder armour optional

add morphs to the faces so people who want role play goblins or orcs, can


this engine is pure gold it is sad that is almost abandoned
 

Ruthven

Baron
WBM&BVC
I think it could work with some restrictions

-f2p players limited to official servers only
-f2p players cannot buy skins
-muted by default
-able to buy MP standalone for 10-20usd
 

Roy1012

Archduke
However, for the purpose of a large competitive scene, I think mods are restrictive.
There will never be a competitive scene with Bannerlord. It’s too far gone. A game that came out 3 years ago can’t have a competitive scene when it never did in the first place. Maybe a revival of a cult following that once was (I have no doubt NW competitive could return if it was attempted), but for a game that nobody or plays, it will be an uphill battle to get any traction going.
 

Byas

Sergeant
WBNW
Mods and custom servers won't save the scene
I honestly think this is the only way to actually get Bannerlord to Increase MP playerbase & potentially gain popularity, granted it would take alot of work. Maybe an overhaul mod heh

Idea:
Stronghold Mod

This would be similar to Persistent World except the ability to Create/Destroy Castles & Structures with summoning /commanding A.I.
3 main resources: Wood, Stone & Metals.

Each faction of course will have it's own unique buildings,troop types and equipment. Maybe MP Boardgames/Create own weapon/equipment.

Inspired by the old RTS game called Stronghold / Str.Crusader.
Food/Housing Creates Peasants > Serfs > Etc. creating an economy to build an offensive / defense army.

An overhaul on the commanding system to make it like singleplayer but maybe with even more options.
Make the online mode have 200 - 400 players / 10,000 A.I. heh ( I know these are probably unrealistic numbers but I think having a high player count on a server could do wonders but probably challenging)
Destructive castles/Buildings meaning if it's built it can be destroyed or partially destroyed using siege equipment.
Different Regions of maps or maybe a massive landscape. All with Resources and biomes that could be in use.

I know chadz from DonkeyCrew had the idea of making the stronghold mode with his game 'Of Kings and Men' later known as 'Melee Battlegrounds' after the game failed due to publisher/developement woes he's now on Last Oasis (which is a fun game)

It's hard to make a MP RTS that is also 3rd person action combat but maybe in the future it can be done well & fun to play.

anyway..
The Current direction of this game is hm right now 120 players. But I also dislike the whole buy 'customization' and Perk stuff.
Badges I don't mind.
 

Terco_Viejo

Spanish Gifquisition
Grandmaster Knight
What the OP is proposing, in my opinion, is throwing in the towel in its maximum expression.

Everything is in Taleworlds' hands, whether it is to continue in free fall or to try to correct the course and try to recover by carrying out drastic manoeuvres. Redemption is undoubtedly achieved first by accepting and considering the root of the problems and secondly by tackling them head on.

Why has Bannerlord MP failed? The answer is scattered throughout hundreds of comments during the almost 3 years of testing.

What makes Warband different from Bannerlord? The former is fun and stable and the latter is not.

What does Bannerlord need to be fun and stable? Mainly to fix two root problems that have been talked about ad nauseam; combat system and server stability. Fixing those is vital and is mainly 75% of the fiasco factor of what we have right now.

With the combat system working at 100% and acceptable server stability, the loss of player volume would not have been so dramatic.

The new class system model applied across all modes does not work, this is an irrefutable fact. It has also been discussed ad nauseam; keep skirmish and Captain Mode with the Bannerlord system but bring back the Warband system or create a 2.0 version that will be welcomed by the community.

Waiting so long to bring out dedicated/custom servers was a miscalculation that has also reduced player volume; however, despite its importance, the above is of greater urgency.

In short... to make the game a f2p by-product with all the bland paraphernalia that the OP comments on in his initial post is to give the game a Hollywood-sized "Failed Game" label.

If Taleworlds doesn't accept all that and promote that philosophy/vision change.... it won't matter if the game is free and decorated with ribbons and coloured lights; if it's not fun, the player won't play it.
 

Roy1012

Archduke
With the combat system working at 100% and acceptable server stability, the loss of player volume would not have been so dramatic.

The new class system model applied across all modes does not work, this is an irrefutable fact. It has also been discussed ad nauseam; keep skirmish and Captain Mode with the Bannerlord system but bring back the Warband system or create a 2.0 version that will be welcomed by the community.
Pretty much all that matters imo. The other stuff is important but without these, its pointless. IDK how they can't understand that.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Selling the MP component separately from the SP makes alot of sense to me. I play a fair bit of Halo infinity MP; and I have no interest at all in the SP regrettably,

I'm not comfortable with the idea of battle-passes frankly... but otherwise; I agree with these points.


they are all trash, believe you me, I won them all, they got old real fast.

Chivalry is the best of the bunch when it comes to M&B opposition; but it is extremely simplified. It's fun and looks nice but there isn't much going on under the surface.

Mordhau is mechanically interesting but is ruined by exploitation (which the devs don't fix) and by having the single most toxic community in the history of video gaming. We are talking about a game which has a full set of female character models, cosmetics, VA ready to go - but the community forced the dev's to remove it as 'unrealistic'. Nevermind the fact that game has Vikings fighting Landsknect - but no; "Women ruin the immersion" .
 
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AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
No, that was and will always be League of Legends. It was actually the original point at which "toxic" first started being used as a vague catch-all term for "people doing things I don't like."
You do make a strong-case. LoL did actually remove chat from the game at one point.

Still - as far as I'm aware - I don't think even LoL players have demanded the removal of all females from the game.
 

five bucks

Knight
You do make a strong-case. LoL did actually remove chat from the game at one point.

Still - as far as I'm aware - I don't think even LoL players have demanded the removal of all females from the game.
People asking for ahistorical women fighters not to be put into a history-inspired game for reasons of personal immersion or preference, while you may disagree and have reasonable arguments against it, is nowhere near the same level of the constant intentional game throwing, insults, targeted harassment, slurs and death threats I saw people do to each other on a constant basis in League of Legends.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
People asking for ahistorical women fighters not to be put into a history-inspired game for reasons of personal immersion or preference, while you may disagree and have reasonable arguments against it, is nowhere near the same level of the constant intentional game throwing, insults, targeted harassment, slurs and death threats I saw people do to each other on a constant basis in League of Legends.
Let's be clear - that it also true of Morhau :ROFLMAO:.

But to be fair - I do think you win. LoL's is renowned for this.
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
Great topic, mate @Brandis. The proposals are very relevant and reasonable, and the approach to their justification is logical and academic, in general.
I was especially impressed by the directions you suggested for spending loot. After all, the developers spent a lot of time creating this very good system (loot), but its potential is currently being used extremely poorly. At least I really miss the directions for using the pile of loot I have accumulated (and this is a very large pile, 100k+).
 
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