Textures

[Freakwave]

After installing 512*512 textures and fooling around with the ingame settings i took a look at the PL files and i noticed that some files are saved as DTX3 and 5.

I learned from here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=143321&highlight=DXT
that those formats use more memory than DTX1.

Some gains can still be made in memory usage if these files are to be converted. I am willing to do that.
Another question is since some are scaled down from 1024 to 512 others are not. I can do both (and 256) at the same time if i only i know which are and which are not allowed to have that conversion.

 

[DerHerbst]

This is very interesting...I wonder how many texture files in Brytenwalda are "needlessly" DXT5 when they could/should be DTX1?  Thank you for posting this thread!  I hope that it eventually helps to make Brytenwalda less memory intensive while retaining the quality of the artwork...

隐藏

I've noticed lot of "pro" skinners don't seem to know the difference between a DXT1 and DXT5 .dds/texture

I've seen several major skin packs where all the texture files that should be saved as DXT1 are saved as DXT5, whcih creates an unneeded alpha channel that doubles the used video memory for that one skin.
This can waste a HUGE amount of video memory and cause crashes in large battles.

DXTbmp is a great way to make sure the skin is saved in the proper format.

If the alpha channel is all white, it's a DXT1.



If the alpha channel is grey scale shaded, like the areas around bow quivers, helm visors, axes, etc, then it's a DXT5.

DXTbmp will also save a shaded DXT5 alpha as a DXT1 with alpha, which has a pure black and white alpha channel.

For a archer militia skin for example, only the bow quiver is represented in the DXT5 alpha channel, grey scaled.

If you save it as a DXT1 with alpha, it decreases the video memory usage by half, but the unit will show more jaggedy around the quiver on the battlemap, since the shading around the quiver has been removed and changed to just black and white, but with AA turned on, the difference is barely noticeable. It's a question of detail vs performance.

Normal map textures and blood/dirt overlay textures are always DXT5s, so they use a significant part of a battle's video memory.

DXT3 dds use TWICE the memory of a DXT1 and both support at the most a pure black/white alpha channel.

DXT3's have no place or need in MTW2 modding, except to needlessly waste video memory! And YES I am seeing them in stratmap textures!

I can answer any questions here or PM me..

Martin can also answer more technical questions at his FORUM

Enjoy!

 

[Freakwave]

Bryt textures are all DTX1, well almost all, i checked and found one shield with DTX5 could be more.

 

[DerHerbst]

Ah that's too bad...

Well I'm getting a new gaming-designed PC soon anyway...only a couple weeks more of laggy Brytenwalda!

 

[Freakwave]

Further investigation reveals that a significant amount of the 2634 (with some leftovers i think) textures in brytenwalda can be converted to DTX1 textures due to a completely white alpha channel. Some textures like the ocean and river and ground and wall textures for example that are loaded frequently. Not forgetting initial startup of the mod itself.

I need to know from the modders if i have the go ahead.

 

[NacroxNicke]

I don't know too much about dds formats and stuff, so the DXT1 thingy could work, when making the texture packs I remember that I didn't changed any format, I kept all in the original form, so I could take a look about DXT1/3 stuff if someone hasn't done it yet.

I could even make a list with the DXT3 DXT5 textures, leave the normal and speculars map from it, and then convert them to test what happens

Also, some .ogg/.mp3 files in the sound.txt could make the game less stable too.

About the rescaled, the settings in M&B gets scaled too, so if you play with 50% in default (1024x1024), it's the same quality as playing with the 512x512 pack in 100%, but you use less RAM Memory

The ones that aren't rescaled are the menu pictures ones, the borders ones, and the map icon ones. Also, the particles ones can't be rescaled or they will be show wrong in the game.

EDIT: Those numbers are wrong, as the number of textures in Brytenwalda are 2145

EDIT2: 2145 Textures, 86 DXT3 Textures, 181 DXT5 Textures, 1878 DXT1a Textures, there are some wrong textures in DXT5 and DXT3, but not all of them (some armours, maybe that overloads the engine a little)

I still think that the sound thing lower stability, I will test it

EDIT3: Almost forgot, the normal and specular textures have half of the resolution of the default texture, so if a sword uses 1024x1024 (DXT1a), their normal and specular are 512x512 (DXT3). I think that it's made like that to save some ram when loading

 

[Freakwave]

I just took a look at total texture count and that was what the number said. Not all are from this mod. Its hard to say which, so i might end up converting textures that won't need converting. If you could identify those that would be helpful. Are they being loaded on initial game startup too? Because that would mean another speed increase if they were to be removed.

Yes the ones with a black and white alpha channel like bushes and trees i was not planning on touching. So the amount of textures from PL that can be converted is smaller than i initially hoped. But still ground and wall textures can still be converted. I already gone ahead and indentified most if not all in brytenwalda texture folder that can be converted. There are about 100-150 (rough estimate) that have an all white alphachannel saved as DTX3 /5 respectively.

I have no knowledge of the sound part. This texture thing is just something that i recalled from Medieval 2 Total War. DTX1 textures use half the memory space. Besides most textures are DTX1, its just bringing them inline with the others at a hopefully noticable speed increase.

I hope i am not interfering with your work, im just trying to help.

 

[NacroxNicke]

Take easy, I'm trying to not sound rude but as I speak spanish and my english is limited it is a little harder than it seems

I could make a list of the -native- brytenwalda textures that use DXT3 and DXT5 and send it to you, because I don't know what ones are wrong and stuff, or even upload a rar with the textures separated in folders

I also play with PL but that count was without those textures, only the ones of the 1.391 version (I will add the ones from the patch now too)

Greetings!

 

[Freakwave]

Ok that would be great. I was just being carefull because indeed its hard to have a conversation when english is not your native language(for me neither). 

I can look at all three 1024/512/256 texture sizes and PL for Brytenwalda just let me know and or send me the files.