Test of melee weapons for each factions

[Gorvex]

What does "PH" means ?

Judging by the environment where it's mentioned (Pendor Bladesman compared to D'Shar Ghazi Dervish, stating that '6' is useless), it must be Power Throw (PT) skill, as Pendor Bladesman don't have throwing weapons, as opposed to Ghazi Dervishes. And both units have 6 in Power Throw. Which brings me to the conclusion that an errata happened: PH instead of PT.

 

[Dusk Voyager]

I guess it's relevant enough, so I hope you don't mind a bit of necroing. While browsing the dev forum yesterday, I saw some posts suggesting that the bastard 1h/2h damage penalty is 15% rather than 35%, and decided to post this:

1h/2h in POP

As 2h
- on foot  dmg full, speed full
- on horse dmg -15%, speed -25%

As 1h
- on foot  dmg -15%, speed -15%
- on horse dmg -15%, speed -15%

BTW you have condensed values in the spreadsheet->notes-> columns AV-CU

Based on this post, using unsuitable melee weapons (2h or polearm) with one hand (with shield or mounted) gives these penalties, ignoring the speed and assuming the target has no armor and the formula hasn't changed since then (still not set-in-stone ratios for actual opponents wearing armor):

- if it's a polearm, 0.852 = 0.72 approx. aka 28% raw_damage reduction
- if it's a 2h weapon, 0.85*0.9 = 0.765 aka 23.5% raw_damage reduction

Despite that, I remember people going on and on about 35% penalty on Taleworlds forums (at least for Native), which could be explained by normal opponents wearing armor, therefore reducing the damage and increasing the penalty rate. Considering the speed penalty and higher reduction/soak factors on PoP, it should be even higher. The lower penalty rate makes sense if quite a lot of attacks make obscenely high amounts of "raw/pre-adjustment damage", limiting the actual damage to the clamped values, though.

What do you think?

PS. For example, let's say someone is swinging a 45 dmg 2h weapon around on foot and without a shield. He has 7 Power Strike, 350 points in 2h proficiency (STR is almost irrelevant):

Base dmg                                            = 45
clamp(hold_bonus, 1.0, 2.0) * 0.5 + 0.5 = 1.5 max
proficiency * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85            = 1.375
power_strike * 0.08 + 1.0                      = 1.56

product                                                = 144.7875

If the speed bonus is 200%, the result will be multiplied by 4, but clamped for exceeding 500 (579).
If the soldier is swinging it from horseback/with a shield, it makes 443 (11.4% less than 500).

 

[Lag'ier Barlida]

I guess it's relevant enough, so I hope you don't mind a bit of necroing. While browsing the dev forum yesterday, I saw some posts suggesting that the bastard 1h/2h damage penalty is 15% rather than 35%, and decided to post this:

1h/2h in POP

As 2h
- on foot  dmg full, speed full
- on horse dmg -15%, speed -25%

As 1h
- on foot  dmg -15%, speed -15%
- on horse dmg -15%, speed -15%

BTW you have condensed values in the spreadsheet->notes-> columns AV-CU

Based on this post, using unsuitable melee weapons (2h or polearm) with one hand (with shield or mounted) gives these penalties, ignoring the speed and assuming the target has no armor and the formula hasn't changed since then (still not set-in-stone ratios for actual opponents wearing armor):

- if it's a polearm, 0.852 = 0.72 approx. aka 28% raw_damage reduction
- if it's a 2h weapon, 0.85*0.9 = 0.765 aka 23.5% raw_damage reduction

Despite that, I remember people going on and on about 35% penalty on Taleworlds forums (at least for Native), which could be explained by normal opponents wearing armor, therefore reducing the damage and increasing the penalty rate. Considering the speed penalty and higher reduction/soak factors on PoP, it should be even higher. The lower penalty rate makes sense if quite a lot of attacks make obscenely high amounts of "raw/pre-adjustment damage", limiting the actual damage to the clamped values, though.

What do you think?

Hmm personally speaking I think the penalty calculate is not that important, there are too many things on paper need to cook up together to judge for a weapon, like speed and reach are not always “the more the better”, 2h, or 1/2h item are awful on paper, but not awful for actual game.

Like knight of Falcon is obviously better than Ravenspear because of their 2h sword.

 

[Leonion]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,346233.msg8453920.html#msg8453920
This and below.

The damage penalty is applied to raw damage. Armor has nothing to do with it.
35% might have been true in the past but it no longer is.

 

[Dusk Voyager]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,346233.msg8453920.html#msg8453920
This and below.

The damage penalty is applied to raw damage. Armor has nothing to do with it.
35% might have been true in the past but it no longer is.

I dare say it turns out it was never true in the first place.

 

[lconracl]

The part in which you are quoting me - it is based on my "real battle" tests (multiple ones, checked all weapon types + few flags).