Terrain and Tactics

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Syrion

Recruit
I recently downloaded (and subsequently registered) the game, and find it excellent in terms of mechanics and potential. It's certainly one of the best shareware games I've ever seen, probably the best in ten years. (The real golden age of shareware being Apogee, of course.) That said, I've got some suggestions which I feel would improve the game and make it more interesting.

Terrain
Currently, the terrain generator seems to be rather primitive. It produces decent terrain for fighting, but there is no unity: in every area of the map, it generates what is essentially a square of terrain bounded by a ring of mountains. This is a little odd, especially given the engine's strength regarding terrain. What I suggest is that the terrain be generated (and tweaked to the developers' satisfaction) via a set of algorithms based on realistic terrain, at high resolution; the "overworld" map could be created as a low detail version of this same map. Put the terrain creation algorithms within the game itself and store the seeds, and the download will remain small (though the installation will take longer, of course).

What are the benefits of this method? For one thing, the land would now be predictable based on your location on the world map. The world map, furthermore, could be more detailed. (Vegetation and other terrain modifiers could be added as other layers, also according to algorithms if you like.) If you're interested in the sort of terrain generation I have in mind, check out the World Machine. This program can be used in concert with the more famous Terragen for spectacular results, and I think its methods could be duplicated for Mount & Blade.

Tactics
Besides improved terrain generation and coherence, tactics are another issue I see. You have little or no control over where you appear, and so your tactical choices are limited, no matter how good your character may be at tactics. I suggest that, before a fight starts, you should see a tactical map where you can assign units tasks. Crossbowmen, for instance, might be directed to line themselves up along a cliff, firing down upon enemies. Knights and infantrymen could be given separate orders, and so on. For playability's sake, the level of detail in tactical control would have to be diminished within the actual fight, but this is realistic.

This scheme adds significance to the tactics skill and to charisma. Higher levels of tactics would result in improved maps, with higher terrain detail and information about enemy placement, and so forth. Tactical commands within the battle would become secondary--and their effects could be determined by charisma. A truly charismatic commander could lead his troops anywhere, and be obeyed instantly; someone lacking charisma could command something tiny and be unheeded. To prevent charisma from being the "deal-breaker," though, one could acquire "authority" through victories. An authoritative commander--however ugly, scarred, and unfortunate in circumstances of birth he might be--could lead his band effectively.

If this proposal is adopted, I suggest that the presentation of the tactical map should be in the form of a low-detail, archaic-style topographical map. Some modern conventions could be used, like elevation demarcations consisting of clustered circles, but the accuracy could be randomly distorted, based once again upon your tactics skill. Units could be presented as three-dimensional markers like chessmen, but this isn't crucial.

Anyway, feel free to discuss and debate these proposals. I hope they meet with approval from the powers that be, because I truly feel they can improve the game's presentation and polish.
 
Actually, one complaint I have about the terrain in combat (apart from that horrible seam where the sky wraps around ;)) is that at times, when there's a river or such in the combat area, if you follow it along, it just... stops...
I mean, it's like the world suddenly ends. :p
 
I've actually been wondering if the tactics skill actually did or anything or not. As far as I can tell it tells one that the battle is more in one's favor, but doens't make the battle ACTUALLY more in your favor...
 
Tactics increases the number of units you have at the field at the beginning of each "round". For every two points in tactics, you get one extra unit. Normally, extra troops are just held in reserve. In general, a high tactics score will let you outnumber the enemy.

[edit] The number that it gives you saying that the battle is in your favor is just how many more units you're fielding than the enemy. The battle isn't necessarily in your favor, say if you've got peasants and they have knights. It just gives an idea of the numbers advantage. [/edit]
 
Incorrect, it takes into account quality too - I've had an advantage of 4 even with a low tactics rating for my character when fighting against troops twice my numbers.
 
Hrm, then I guess I'm off base, at least about that "advantage" line. I still stand by what I said about the effects of the tactics skill, though.
 
I like the terrain thus far.. but yes it could add a whole new level of gameplay to the combat if beefed up.

For instance, if it was implemented that the terrain displayed on the map was constant for the battle grounds... if you see a bridge crossing a river, fight a battle there the bridge and river will ALWAYS be there.

Then you could setup ambushes.... wait until the caravan gets on the bridge and let at them with a slew of arrows.... things like that.

Block up one side of the bridge with some guards, shields locked... they have no retreat... :D

Great stuff, hopefully it will hpapen
 
a combination of tactics/leadership/charisma should give your army actual combat bonunses, like more damage and stuff, to reflect their eagerness to fight on your side. and as someone mentioned, the amount of men you can feild at a time should be directly related to your tactics/leadership/charisma as well, and absolutely nothing else. maybe start with a minimum of 4-5 men at a time when you just start out so you can still have a chance, but as you advance more, you will have to choose between being a good leader or a good warrior, or a little of both.

as for terrain, it would be sweet id there were more diverse types rather then just plains/hills. like forests thick with trees, making it impossible for calvary to maunevour, or swamps/moors.

the one idea proposed by syrion, about a overhead view of the battlefeild before a battle to be able to stratigally place units is absolutely awesome.
it would be nice if you could actually choose what units of yours to feild as well, rather then it just being random as well.
 
rather than make a new topic i'll post here, as its kind of tactics related


i'd like to see the AI factions, or army types in general work together a bit more, i'd like to see a Swadian war party chasing some Vaegirs across the map only for any vaegir units in range to try and take them on all at once, to even the odds in there favour
 
Yeah, it seems kind of dumb when 2 parties of say 30 units each are running from a part of 50 units, just because they're outnumbered individually. It's not a big deal, but could make things more realistic if they did team up against their persuer.

This may require far more coding than it's worth, though. AI things like that seem to be a little tricky.
 
i agree with the terrain thing, mostly because i went in to a battle once i had 20 they had 18. When the battle half my troops started in a river and the other half started on a cliff above the. No biggie other then the fact my troops on top charged off the cliff and i lost 3 of them to the fall, then i moved and fell off the cliff, being to steep to climb. It knocked my horse out and lamed it. :cry:
 
I'd like it if there were more features on the battle maps.  Bridges, huts, farm fields, fences and stone walls, roads and paths, etc.  Also, it seems like, the way maps are now, most battles play out the same way -- regardless of the map.  It all flows from your preconceived battle strategy that accords with your playstyle.  But there should be something unique about the maps, that throws something else into the mix, and forces you to rethink how you go about things.  Make it more of a strategic thing than a tactical thing.  What exactly that could be...  :P
 
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I agree. this should, and hopefully, will be added. thing is though, that the AI doesn't handle anything in it's path (eg buildings) very well....

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Good work on ressurecting this thread :D :D :D
 
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