Taleworlds, where is the Transparency & Communication? :(

[Wulfrik The Wanderer]

It's the age of the internet and instant-communication, there's no reason any development studio, no matter how small, shouldn't be able to provide us with clear communication. I'm not expecting a reply to every forum thread, but asides from manually searching for one or two posts from Callum/Mexxico, we have no idea what to expect.

We don't need a fully fledged roadmap, maybe just a weekly post telling us what each department is currently working on? Instead of replying to individual posts with dev updates, why not create one Sticky post so all can see?

 

[Gambles]

I wouldn't mind some kind of weekly or bi-weekly pinned thread on what they're currently working on beyond beta etc.

Oddly enough they do seem to give out this information somewhat regularly but it's often in a reply to a random post somewhere on the forum as opposed to some place that people can see when they first jump on. I think having something like that may answer a lot of the redundant question threads we get on here that pertain to "When is _____ being fixed!?"

 

[crimsonfilms]

Every company has a different philosophy for communicating. Apple, for example, is notoriously silent for all of their software and hardware development. Even when patching software they provide the bare minimum. Yes, their customers love them - the highest approval.

I have beta tested several major software before. Some provided constant feedback including road maps, some don't. There was NO correlation between the quality of the software upon release.

I think the demand for constant feedback is caused by a younger crowd expecting immediate gratification (where is the patch today mentality) and having an open forum.

If they decide to host a forum, they should communicate a bit more.

For roadmaps, I'm not sure that is going to help. You will still see posts about "a modder can fix this in 1 day, why can't you?". The roadmap constantly changes. And will only cause more resentment from people expecting X to come out in Y.

 

[Wulfrik The Wanderer]

Every company has a different philosophy for communicating. Apple, for example, is notoriously silent for all of their software and hardware development. Even when patching software they provide the bare minimum. Yes, their customers love them - the highest approval.

I have beta tested several major software before. Some provided constant feedback including road maps, some don't. There was NO correlation between the quality of the software upon release.

I think the demand for constant feedback is caused by a younger crowd expecting immediate gratification (where is the patch today mentality) and having an open forum.

If they decide to host a forum, they should communicate a bit more.

For roadmaps, I'm not sure that is going to help. You will still see posts about "a modder can fix this in 1 day, why can't you?". The roadmap constantly changes. And will only cause more resentment from people expecting X to come out in Y.

I think we all know Apple is only successful due to Brainwashing Ads/Commercials, Peer pressure tactics, taking advantage of children, and a host of other dirty and immoral activities like owning foreign industrial sweat shops to buying out Politicians! But hey! You can buy this plastic Monitor-stand for only $1300!

 

[kanzy]

Spoiler

 

[BitterAsteroid]

You could just wait for full release?

 

[Nekolacek]

You could just wait for full release?

And what for would communication be for after the game is already released?
This timeframe is the most crucial for the playtesters to actually get to communicate with the devs

 

[Depressinho]

actually there is a reason, because some people will go ape**** if they dont get what promised exactly when promised

 

[R4MPZY]

Taleworlds, It's the age of the internet and instant-communication, there's no reason any development studio, no matter how small, shouldn't be able to provide us with communication. I'm not expecting a reply to every forum thread but asides from manually searching for one or two posts from Callum and other members, we have no idea what to expect.

We don't even need a fully fledged roadmap, maybe a weekly post telling us what each department is currently working on?

Look at Star Citizen's roadmap and Dev blogs, Robert Space Industries is purely transparent due to community funding, so people will dump loads of money into the game and keep faith in the developers. Bannerlord is not community funded but why should that stop our community from receiving a similar treatment?

Star Citizens roadmap to a 28.000€ bundle?

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

actually there is a reason, because some people will go ape**** if they dont get what promised exactly when promised

Who gives a **** about the mentally challenged minority? The majority of the community here wants assurance and answers from TW, they're not getting it because the devs are afraid they're gonna trigger some 10 retarted children? As OP has said, there is no excuse for them not to communicate their plans with us other than them not having plans themselves.

 

[Shemaforash]

Taleworlds, It's the age of the internet and instant-communication, there's no reason any development studio, no matter how small, shouldn't be able to provide us with communication. I'm not expecting a reply to every forum thread but asides from manually searching for one or two posts from Callum and other members, we have no idea what to expect.

We don't even need a fully fledged roadmap, maybe a weekly post telling us what each department is currently working on?

Look at Star Citizen's roadmap and Dev blogs, Robert Space Industries is purely transparent due to community funding, so people will dump loads of money into the game and keep faith in the developers. Bannerlord is not community funded but why should that stop our community from receiving a similar treatment?

They're following the path they followed in the alpha and beta testing, forums seems to be just for milking free QA and bugreports. Forgotten

 

[crimsonfilms]

I think we all know Apple is only successful due to Brainwashing Ads/Commercials, Peer pressure tactics, taking advantage of children, and a host of other dirty and immoral activities like owning foreign industrial sweat shops to buying out Politicians! But hey! You can buy this plastic Monitor-stand for only $1300!

LOL. Possible. Nevertheless, objectively their products are well-engineered. You may not agree with their philosophy but there is a reason so many tech companies follow Apple's lead (Samsung, Razer, Adobe, LG, etc.). I'm not an Apple but fan but my point still stands, "open communication" does not guarantee development success. Often it is just to pacify customers.

And what for would communication be for after the game is already released?
This timeframe is the most crucial for the playtesters to actually get to communicate with the devs

And this brings up to my point of forums attracting high noise to signal ratio. 90% of users are not accustomed to providing timely feedback with precise unemotional language (see both posts above this as perfect examples). This is not a shot at users of this forum, this is true of 90% of any open forum for any product. Even niche high-end professional products suffer from this. It takes so much time and energy to wade through the posts. Any criticism must be evaluated, identified, diagnosed, somehow quantified, and form an action plan. Now try doing that for every post you see here, including memes, trolls, etc and you can see how limiting communication can be an attractive method.


If people are serious about helping any developer, ask them to provide real names. Watch what happens. Accountability in open anonymous forum is a one way street.

 

[Shemaforash]

(see both posts above this as perfect examples). This is not a shot at users of this forum, this is true of 90% of any open forum for any product.

Most of the negativity stems from poor communication on TaleWorlds half, as the feedback from closed testing and beta was actually mostly positive and helpful. Until we realized the best strategy to get answers from TaleWorlds was to make petty replies because they would answer that and ignore the rest of the thread. It doesn't have to be this way, but it is.

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

Now try doing that for every post you see here, including memes, trolls, etc and you can see how limiting communication can be an attractive method.

I welcome you to visit the "Feedback & Suggestion" forums once in a while. I can count a dozen threads which that fit the criteria.

 

[Kahpya]

"open communication" does not guarantee development success.

I can see your point with an emphasis on the "not guarantee" part of the sentence, but honestly, if that is your stand on the matter then I can argue nothing is. The thing is that from a statistical point of view, the development of software is more likely to not succeed when there's no communication between the developers and the "stakeholders" (meaning us). Which, of course, doesn't translate to a successful product but it does increase its chance of becoming one.

Often it is just to pacify customers.

Of course, it is. Though, respectively, that is just one of many things it does. It also provides valuable insight into the consumers' minds. What kind of mechanics are they looking for? Does our internal Roadmap align with the common players' vision of the game? which only furthers my previous point, it gives the product a better chance of becoming a success.

It takes so much time and energy to wade through the posts. Any criticism must be evaluated, identified, diagnosed, somehow quantified, and form an action plan.

That is why most threads aren't going to be read on these forums. Simply because they don't meet the developers' criteria for having enough interest for the common player. That doesn't mean they don't do it for those they deem important enough. And they will evaluate all the trolls and not so constructive post in the threads, but over time they learn that some user-names simply doesn't come with anything remotely constructive, which means they can easily skip them over, and focus on the other posts instead.

Accountability in open anonymous forum is a one way street.

Is this in the context of haters and trolls on the forums? if so, I agree, to some extent it is. There're ways to negate the impact with the proper use of the "report system", and diligence from the users of the forum. Now we can always debate the meaning of "proper use" in this context. But then again lets not. As you already stated, most threads aren't going to be read by developers, so does it really matter?

 

[Wulfrik The Wanderer]

I can see your point with an emphasis on the "not guarantee" part of the sentence, but honestly, if that is your stand on the matter then I can argue nothing is. The thing is that from a statistical point of view, the development of software is more likely to not succeed when there's no communication between the developers and the "stakeholders" (meaning us). Which, of course, doesn't translate to a successful product but it does increase its chance of becoming one.


Of course, it is. Though, respectively, that is just one of many things it does. It also provides valuable insight into the consumers' minds. What kind of mechanics are they looking for? Does our internal Roadmap align with the common players' vision of the game? which only furthers my previous point, it gives the product a better chance of becoming a success.


That is why most threads aren't going to be read on these forums. Simply because they don't meet the developers' criteria for having enough interest for the common player. That doesn't mean they don't do it for those they deem important enough. And they will evaluate all the trolls and not so constructive post in the threads, but over time they learn that some user-names simply doesn't come with anything remotely constructive, which means they can easily skip them over, and focus on the other posts instead.


Is this in the context of haters and trolls on the forums? if so, I agree, to some extent it is. There're ways to negate the impact with the proper use of the "report system", and diligence from the users of the forum. Now we can always debate the meaning of "proper use" in this context. But then again lets not. As you already stated, most threads aren't going to be read by developers, so does it really matter?

+1

 

[BitterAsteroid]

And what for would communication be for after the game is already released?
This timeframe is the most crucial for the playtesters to actually get to communicate with the devs

The point is that people for some reason are expecting an update every single day and are complaining about the fact that the Devs are not "acknowledging" their concerns when this game is in an EA form and I personally am respecting what they release when they release it. I have posted in the forums with what seems like rants but they are actually suggestions for the devs and also to see if anyone else is experiencing the problem that I am. I think what people should be doing is beta testing and reporting issues and suggestions to the devs instead of just spouting "BROKEN GAME" literally 1 and a half months into the Early Access release.

 

[Midnitewolf]

I have to admit it would be nice for there to be a list of planned features that is not in the game yet. I mean I believe a lot of the mods that we have are just things that will be added or fixed eventually anyway. Also, it would be nice to know for the modders so they could focus on mods that add features to the game that aren't planned to ever be added by Taleworlds. Right now though, we have no idea what is working, what is not and what may or may not be added down the road. For example, I personally can only speculate/hope that there is going to be a much more robust city management mechanic above and beyond just "upgrades" we have now. However, We really don't know if that is something they might actually add down the road or if it is going to by up the modders to expand on that mechanic.

 

[crimsonfilms]

I can see your point with an emphasis on the "not guarantee" part of the sentence, but honestly, if that is your stand on the matter then I can argue nothing is. The thing is that from a statistical point of view, the development of software is more likely to not succeed when there's no communication between the developers and the "stakeholders" (meaning us). Which, of course, doesn't translate to a successful product but it does increase its chance of becoming one.


Of course, it is. Though, respectively, that is just one of many things it does. It also provides valuable insight into the consumers' minds. What kind of mechanics are they looking for? Does our internal Roadmap align with the common players' vision of the game? which only furthers my previous point, it gives the product a better chance of becoming a success.


That is why most threads aren't going to be read on these forums. Simply because they don't meet the developers' criteria for having enough interest for the common player. That doesn't mean they don't do it for those they deem important enough. And they will evaluate all the trolls and not so constructive post in the threads, but over time they learn that some user-names simply doesn't come with anything remotely constructive, which means they can easily skip them over, and focus on the other posts instead.


Is this in the context of haters and trolls on the forums? if so, I agree, to some extent it is. There're ways to negate the impact with the proper use of the "report system", and diligence from the users of the forum. Now we can always debate the meaning of "proper use" in this context. But then again lets not. As you already stated, most threads aren't going to be read by developers, so does it really matter?

In no shape or form, we are "stakeholders". We are as much as a stakeholder as a coffee drinker is a stakeholder of Starbucks.
There is no statistical evidence, that I know of, which implies "good forum communication equals development success."

Games are mass media products. It is not designing a dishwasher or toilet or TV. It is creating a work that is closer to books, movies, or music. And there have been works that have succeeded in spite of zero mass input and there has been failures that have been focus-grouped to death.

I do want to state since the developer opened this forum, it is inevitable that they provide some form of feedback. That being said, it doesn't really change how good or crappy the game will be. It is just a bottle of milk for the loudest.

 

[kweassa]

5 million copies sold, and with the influx of new gamers we get to deal with this shi*.

10~12 year veteran fans are staying calm and patient, and the newbies screaming entitlement.

**sigh**