Taleworlds, this is false advertising and you know it

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rawrager

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Holy shiet guys, these MP elite club people are right. Taleworlds should delay the game again in order to further optimize the combat aspect of Bannerlord. After all, multiplayer small-scale pvp is the most important part of bannerlord and should be given the most priority and resources. **** singleplayer, campaign coop, pvp large scale army battles, modding, Bannerlord dont need those low skill, low IQ game modes. These MP elite club people pay more money than us singleplayer plebs and their enjoyment are more important, so what they want should be given more attention and priority.
 

aekilju

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Holy shiet guys, these MP elite club people are right. Taleworlds should delay the game again in order to further optimize the combat aspect of Bannerlord. After all, multiplayer small-scale pvp is the most important part of bannerlord and should be given the most priority and resources. **** singleplayer, campaign coop, pvp large scale army battles, modding, Bannerlord dont need those low skill, low IQ game modes. These MP elite club people pay more money than us singleplayer plebs and their enjoyment are more important, so what they want should be given more attention and priority.
That's real cool except no one said that
 

Gibby Jr

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Holy shiet guys, these MP elite club people are right. Taleworlds should delay the game again in order to further optimize the combat aspect of Bannerlord. After all, multiplayer small-scale pvp is the most important part of bannerlord and should be given the most priority and resources. **** singleplayer, campaign coop, pvp large scale army battles, modding, Bannerlord dont need those low skill, low IQ game modes. These MP elite club people pay more money than us singleplayer plebs and their enjoyment are more important, so what they want should be given more attention and priority.
a very strange summary and deliberate misinterpretation of what people are saying.

combat is crucial to MP and SP, not to any "elite club". ideally it should be easy to pick up, so that anyone can enjoy it, but also have enough depth that players can keep improving and improving with it. obviously TW have given SP far more attention, and rightly so; the frustration that many have is that they are not asking much of TW, but TW refuse to give even that small bit. they have purposefully put more effort and attention into MP and have stated an interest in supporting their 6v6 skirmish mode more actively than they ever did for Battle in Warband, yet they have simultaneously disillusioned many of their current and former competitive players by designing these systems in their own way and without significant input from those communities. it is confusing that they actively want it to be bigger and want to put more resources into it, yet refuse to acknowledge many of the features that made MP good in Warband (like gear selection and responsive, no-delay combat), and instead regard Warband MP as a failure. it is confusing to me that anyone would think of a game that has thousands of unique MP players per-day 10 years after release as a failure.

i haven't seen anybody argue that SP should get fewer resources, or that anything other than "elite MP" is worthless or isn't needed. that's a dumb as **** argument to make. nobody has suggested that, nobody with a brain would suggest that. what people are asking for is good combat that builds on the core foundations of the systems in Warband, rather than something which shakes them up and exchanges them for an arbitrary sense of "accessibility".
 

agustin242536

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a very strange summary and deliberate misinterpretation of what people are saying.

combat is crucial to MP and SP, not to any "elite club". ideally it should be easy to pick up, so that anyone can enjoy it, but also have enough depth that players can keep improving and improving with it. obviously TW have given SP far more attention, and rightly so; the frustration that many have is that they are not asking much of TW, but TW refuse to give even that small bit. they have purposefully put more effort and attention into MP and have stated an interest in supporting their 6v6 skirmish mode more actively than they ever did for Battle in Warband, yet they have simultaneously disillusioned many of their current and former competitive players by designing these systems in their own way and without significant input from those communities. it is confusing that they actively want it to be bigger and want to put more resources into it, yet refuse to acknowledge many of the features that made MP good in Warband (like gear selection and responsive, no-delay combat), and instead regard Warband MP as a failure. it is confusing to me that anyone would think of a game that has thousands of unique MP players per-day 10 years after release as a failure.

i haven't seen anybody argue that SP should get fewer resources, or that anything other than "elite MP" is worthless or isn't needed. that's a dumb as **** argument to make. nobody has suggested that, nobody with a brain would suggest that. what people are asking for is good combat that builds on the core foundations of the systems in Warband, rather than something which shakes them up and exchanges them for an arbitrary sense of "accessibility".
Go back to warband the game doesnt need to change to be apealing for you guys, you have to understand that.
 

yzzdxrdh

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hey ,if you want to warband, you just go to it ,and do not post any negative words to our forums . You know there days the virus are too serious ,and some people are dying ...if your word does harmful to the release ,you make a big mistake ! and you will regret .so please stop the negative words .Please awake ,it is 2020 now ,warband you may like very much ,but today its graph is awful ,and not liked by everyone,and Talesworld need money ,please let us buy bannerlord so they can get enough money to make it better !
 

Gibby Jr

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Go back to warband the game doesnt need to change to be apealing for you guys, you have to understand that.
how is this an argument? why do you play any new game? by your logic, people should just play the original game that they like and never new ones or sequels.

how is saying the game should not change valuable? Bannerlord has a number of flaws with its combat system, some more controversial than others, but just by viewing noudelle's thread I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples that you actually agree with - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-issues-and-inconsistencies-megathread.389699/

your mindset is literally 'GAME GOOD GO PLAY OLD GAME IF U DON'T LIKE'. ???. i mean what even...
 

agustin242536

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how is this an argument? why do you play any new game? by your logic, people should just play the original game that they like and never new ones or sequels.

how is saying the game should not change valuable? Bannerlord has a number of flaws with its combat system, some more controversial than others, but just by viewing noudelle's thread I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples that you actually agree with - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-issues-and-inconsistencies-megathread.389699/

your mindset is literally 'GAME GOOD GO PLAY OLD GAME IF U DON'T LIKE'. ???. i mean what even...
Who says the combat is a flaw??? That is subjetive i like te combat.
If the game dont like you dont play it simple as that. Bannerlord is a new game with new things not a game to please everyone
 

aekilju

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Who says the combat is a flaw??? That is subjetive i like te combat.
If the game dont like you dont play it simple as that. Bannerlord is a new game with new things not a game to please everyone
If you actually looked into that thread you would see that there are plenty of objective flaws with the combat right now.
 

yzzdxrdh

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how is this an argument? why do you play any new game? by your logic, people should just play the original game that they like and never new ones or sequels.

how is saying the game should not change valuable? Bannerlord has a number of flaws with its combat system, some more controversial than others, but just by viewing noudelle's thread I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples that you actually agree with - https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/combat-issues-and-inconsistencies-megathread.389699/

your mindset is literally 'GAME GOOD GO PLAY OLD GAME IF U DON'T LIKE'. ???. i mean what even...
though this have many problems, Taleworld just Early Access.we should help them to modified it.I want singleplayer and I think most of us want it ,it does not effect more in singleplayer mood
 

Gibby Jr

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Who says the combat is a flaw??? That is subjetive i like te combat.
If the game dont like you dont play it simple as that. Bannerlord is a new game with new things not a game to please everyone
i did not say that the combat is objectively bad, i said that if you click on the link i gave - which you clearly didn't - you would find some examples of problems, issues and controversies that exist with the combat system. i said that you would find some on there which you'd probably agree are problems and should be fixed or changed.

i don't dislike Bannerlord as it is, i want it to be better. there are flaws with it, pretending that it is a masterpiece just because you have waited a long time for it is delusional. the combat in particular is very rough at the moment, just click on the link i gave in my previous post and see for yourself. many issues have been fixed already since the beta began in Summer last year, but that doesn't mean it is perfect.

you suggest that if i don't like it i should quit and never play it? this section wasn't set up for feedback, but the beta section is literally there for people to communicate problems and suggestions to the devs. but right, instead of doing that everyone should take your advice and just quit if there is something they don't like...
 

agustin242536

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i did not say that the combat is objectively bad, i said that if you click on the link i gave - which you clearly didn't - you would find some examples of problems, issues and controversies that exist with the combat system. i said that you would find some on there which you'd probably agree are problems and should be fixed or changed.

i don't dislike Bannerlord as it is, i want it to be better. there are flaws with it, pretending that it is a masterpiece just because you have waited a long time for it is delusional. the combat in particular is very rough at the moment, just click on the link i gave in my previous post and see for yourself. many issues have been fixed already since the beta began in Summer last year, but that doesn't mean it is perfect.

you suggest that if i don't like it i should quit and never play it? this section wasn't set up for feedback, but the beta section is literally there for people to communicate problems and suggestions to the devs. but right, instead of doing that everyone should take your advice and just quit if there is something they don't like...
Easy men i already recognize my mistake i read that and i agree with you i thought that you dont like the combat system and want to be redone or something like that
 

Kribble118

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Eeeeh this isn't flaming. I'll keep posting genuine feedback threads in the future, but I felt a strong need to call out Taleworlds on this blatantly false statement that I don't even think they believe.

Is it actual false advertising? No
Is it bull****? Yes
im confused as to how you're so sure they didn't say that because they implemented some if not most of the changes you've been asking for, into the ea release?
 

Jackuuy Gaming

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I haven't played the beta yet but everyone should just relax and wait until the alpha comes out get a feel of how the game is and post their concerns in a constructive manner , being respectful and constructive not toxic in replies
An awesome community taleworld forum it is but enough is enough I can't stand this lol
If u purchase alpha and dont like it refund it
If you have feed back be constructive regardless if you enjoyed it or not
 

Caius_III

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It's actually more disappointing than it is angering to see community members fight over meaningless stuff, but it's also disappointing that nothing is quite being told as it should be. There are a lot of sides that argue about Bannerlord, but the most prominent ones are "Bannerlord needs some work" side and "Go back to Warband" side. I'm not going to get into which one has what type of people because it would just be triggering and discrediting people's opinions while praising others, which in some cases will be valid and in some cases it won't be.

What's actually wrong with Bannerlord? The core mechanics that sold the amazing and ambitious game called Warband are not as stable anymore. You have a large influx of people buying the sequel because they enjoyed the first one, and these people will buy the sequel or look forward to playing the sequel just because it's an improvement over Warband. Is it an improvement over Warband? Surely, in many regards, from performance to technology to graphics to audio design to modding tools to the engine itself to scenes to animations to models and textures and so on. But there are also some things that are not an improvement over Warband, and if you want examples, you can feel free to look up Noudelle's thread where countless of contributions have been brought. Why have these countless threads and novels written about certain mechanics? Because some people have tried them in a plethora of contexts and have concluded that they can be tweaked to work better.

These people were used to the Warband system, this is true, and it is normal for them to prefer a mechanic similar to what is familiar, but this is not why they prefer it. Many people, myself included, prefer the way some mechanics worked in Warband because they simply worked better. I kicked someone in Warband and risked a stab or someone running around me and slashing me in the back in order to get a stun and a hit on the enemy. This is not possible anymore because the kick stun is incredibly short. There is a delay on swinging, which completely destroys any sort of attempted timing while holding a swing. It also minimized the ability to pressure people into giving up defense by holding. There are various examples given in countless posts and threads made by active community members. Some of the mechanics hurt gameplay the way they are right now. The game isn't fluid. If in Bannerlord I can call bull**** over me glancing into an enemy at a completely normal angle which should produce normal damage, in Warband I cannot, because it didn't happen. The game was relatively stable in its mechanics.

Bannerlord was an ambitious game, as was Warband for its time. This game isn't Mordhau, as some people like to compare it, the combat system is more complex and requires a lot of tweaking. I don't think Taleworlds were ready to make such a complex game in such a short time, with all of the features and mechanics they planned. Game development is tough and time consuming, and poor Armagan and other developers are probably going into depression over these unstable and inconsistent issues that the game has, and early access was probably a good business decision to keep the game going, because at this point, it would probably have been given up otherwise. While I think people should understand Bannerlord has to be developed with proper feedback from the community, so should Bannerlord understand this. You cannot have hardstuck visions of a game if they're not what the community wants. Some mechanics have already been labelled as causing more harm than good, or adding nothing to the game, such as stances. There also needs to be more communication. The community is here, they give daily feedback, but the only answers we really receive is a patch changelog every couple of weeks with changes. Please, raise up the communication. Have someone from the combat team address these issues, have them talk to us, to the people who are actively trying to help this game get better. You only need one person to come and say, "hey, we did this because X" or "hey, your suggestion is really good, and we're looking into it". Someone has to give feedback, or you cause the impression that you're simply not listening.

Nobody wants a Warband 2.0, not TaleWorlds, not anyone, but as of right now, Bannerlord is not a very good candidate for the public market, and this is my honest opinion. New players are going to have a rough time in multiplayer, singleplayer will be the only thing they will really enjoy, and that's fine, as a lot of people focus on the singleplayer aspect of the game. Classes were added and the main argument was to facilitate the introduction of new players into the game. Has it, though? Sure, players don't have to choose equipment anymore, but they still have perks, and there will be a perk meta if there isn't already (although, some classes clearly have only some perks that are worth taking). Another argument was that they wanted every player to be able to pick whatever class they want, not only the "skilled" player with a lot of gold from kills, but then again, it kind of goes against the argument of "building effective teams", as new players will not usually cooperate with others because they are still learning and they want to explore the game for themselves, meaning they will choose classes based on what they feel like playing, ruining the game for themselves and for others. This will lead to them being absolutely destroyed because they went lancer and 1v1'd an enemy lancer without knowing the proper release timing on the lance and just died in 20 seconds from spawning, his experience ruined by constantly dying every time he tries this. Moreover, he's limited by gold now, so he has to go peasant class against the first wave of good enemy units. I would be surprised if the majority of these players didn't quit after their first Skirmish match. From a development standpoint, classes were a waste of time and money. Almost every single update, there has to be some sort of class or perk tweaking, because they're just never spot on, mostly due to lack of proper communication. It would have saved so much more time to just let people make their own classes with free equipment selection, like Warband's.

In any case, TL;DR, nobody wants a Warband 2.0, but some mechanics were done better in Warband than they are in Bannerlord, and this is not a singular opinion, but the opinion of many people. Do you think Warband was bad and Bannerlord was good? Good! Give arguments as to why and contribute in a healthy forum debate, but don't attack people and tell them to go play Warband, that's just petty. Communication and reaction to feedback should also be a priority from TaleWorlds to the community, especially as Early Access is coming. Tell us why you think your mechanics should work the way they do and why you think our arguments are bad, or vice-versa (which is pretty much already done). People need to see their opinions are taken into account.

In any case, sorry for the rant, but after spending so many hours of my life into enjoying TaleWorld's products and seeing this wave of disappointment and anger, I had to write something.
Now that is a quality post.

your tldr is too long. wall of text with a mountain of text.

is that negative criticism helping you?
Be useful and go play somewhere else.

Also, reading Ferimer's posts left me with two braincells.

a very strange summary and deliberate misinterpretation of what people are saying.

combat is crucial to MP and SP, not to any "elite club". ideally it should be easy to pick up, so that anyone can enjoy it, but also have enough depth that players can keep improving and improving with it. obviously TW have given SP far more attention, and rightly so; the frustration that many have is that they are not asking much of TW, but TW refuse to give even that small bit. they have purposefully put more effort and attention into MP and have stated an interest in supporting their 6v6 skirmish mode more actively than they ever did for Battle in Warband, yet they have simultaneously disillusioned many of their current and former competitive players by designing these systems in their own way and without significant input from those communities. it is confusing that they actively want it to be bigger and want to put more resources into it, yet refuse to acknowledge many of the features that made MP good in Warband (like gear selection and responsive, no-delay combat), and instead regard Warband MP as a failure. it is confusing to me that anyone would think of a game that has thousands of unique MP players per-day 10 years after release as a failure.

i haven't seen anybody argue that SP should get fewer resources, or that anything other than "elite MP" is worthless or isn't needed. that's a dumb as **** argument to make. nobody has suggested that, nobody with a brain would suggest that. what people are asking for is good combat that builds on the core foundations of the systems in Warband, rather than something which shakes them up and exchanges them for an arbitrary sense of "accessibility".
Again, I agree with Gibby.

Still waiting for constructive criticism from the people asking for the thread to be closed or telling us to go back to Warband roflmao.

Excuse us if we want to help the devs to make this game great, we had fun and played for more than ten years, we created tournaments, threads, ways of streaming and HUD for streamers, we created mods, maps, rules, managed to get our own competitive scene with incredible teams of admins and incredible players ( people don't seem to realize the amount of skills some people have on this game ) this community lived for ten years and it's still alive today ( WNL8 finals coming ), I mean, some people even created a whole system of ****ing matchmaking that is still active and working in order to play competitive matches during the day,... Taleworlds even organized a Lan tournament because even them witnessed the interest a big part of their community had for multiplayer despite the game being 7 - 8 years old when it happened, I mean just look at threads like the Athenaeum https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/the-athenaeum.384825/ or The Pantheon https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/the-pantheon.387209/. Of course we want that **** to ****ing rock and of course we're taking it seriously. And I'm pretty sure in the end, we all played the singleplayer before throwing ourselves in the multiplayer, so why the **** would we have to confront the two ? The feedbacks provided are helping everyone, whether they want to play in singleplayer or in multiplayer.
 
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Tuco

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You do realize you are playing a beta, and going into Early Access which has the following line "If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development". Combat in warband took how many years to balance?
From my experience, developers will only tweak detailed yet critical mechanics like are described in the combat issues thread if the playerbase makes noise about it. Players have a keen sense of gameplay mechanics that developers never get (for a variety of reasons), so developers need help realizing these issues. If players don't make noise, it gets deprioritized in favor of fixing more tangible bugs or adding new features or making new games.

So if you want combat to get tighter, make some noise.

 

Dabos37

Sergeant Knight
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for these people who constantly complain about the current Bannerlord combat state, just yo clarify if I am understanding their complains rightly:

- Attack delay: it is not really an attack delay, the "problem" is animation delay, right? I mean, It is not that you click and character takes some time to start the attacks, It is really about the animation is different than in Warband, right? This is at least what I understood after reading this threat: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/delay-on-release-of-swings-thrusts.387326/

- Block delay: Same or similar than attack delay, right? It does not feel good because you want blocking being instant indifferently of the animation, right?

If It is the case, I disagree with calling these things "delays". A delay is when you perform and action and the character takes some time until It starts to perform It. I want to clarify this because there are people who do not have access to the beta and you are maybe confusing them.

Concerning chambering, yes, It is sad that It is still not useful to use. I hope that this can get fixed soon.
 
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