Taleworlds, this is false advertising and you know it

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Younes

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Just a bunch of idiots around here, jesus christ. no wonder he wont come back. Worst community in gaming right here folks, don't understand how **** works and then when they get called out on their **** and someone is actually ****ing smarter than them, its well i cant take this anymore. Go ahead just continue your toxic hate and idiotic posts. eventually you will see what happens. but eh what do i know 25 years of gaming awhat the **** do i know right?
So i guess you can't explain how feedback that praises the game is more productive and useful then negative and constructive feedback?

Damn shame
 

Ferimer

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Explain to me how feedback that praises the game is more productive and useful then negative and constructive feedback?
Positive feedback tells the devs that they are doing something right. like have you never studied anything before?? Positive feedback can be constructive too. i.e.. hey taleworlds the shield bashing you added is much more balanced and worth having in the game now, thank you for implementing it. although it needs just a little bit more work.. sounds positive and constructive doesn't it, its a miracle
 

Kripaz

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Go to the forums on feedback and tell me how many posts are about complaints?? go ahead dont worry ill wait. and then count all the ones where they are praising? Most feedback isn't positive. its about whats wrong with the game, what someone doesn't like. its plain and simple most people that enjoy a game for how it is don't truly always bother to say something regarding it because they don't see a need for a change.
Many people are out there testing the game constantly, they don't have time to sit here on the forums, they are out there enjoying the game. if DEvs took one persons complaints seriously a game would never get balanced or fixed properly. its common sense. the features are in place for a reason, the functionality of the game is in place for a reason. All people disagree and don't see eye to eye on subjects, yet it will and always will take evidence and substantial evidence to warrant a change. They look into it and try to replicate what they are seeing and if they cannot do so on many instances then its a one off and they don't bother. When more and more people start reporting the same problem and it gains ground and creates a broken aspect that is when they begin to heavily weigh the options of, is it affecting gameplay heavily? is it important? is it breaking the game? many factors go into determining whats important. If you would like tell them to push the EA back and see what happens
There's a meaning of beta for you
 

Younes

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Positive feedback tells the devs that they are doing something right. like have you never studied anything before?? Positive feedback can be constructive too. i.e.. hey taleworlds the shield bashing you added is much more balanced and worth having in the game now, thank you for implementing it. although it needs just a little bit more work.. sounds positive and constructive doesn't it, its a miracle
"Needs just a little bit more work"

Very constructive and detailed i see.
 

Ferimer

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Positive feedback tells the devs that they are doing something right. like have you never studied anything before?? Positive feedback can be constructive too. i.e.. hey taleworlds the shield bashing you added is much more balanced and worth having in the game now, thank you for implementing it. although it needs just a little bit more work.. sounds positive and constructive doesn't it, its a miracle
or you can go into detail. sometimes when i shield bash someone it looks like it goes right through their head, is that suppose to happen? or should i report that as a bug? what about arrows going through peoples legs? like were the legs open at this moment in time? or did my ping behind to high not render what i was seeing properly?
 

Younes

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or you can go into detail. sometimes when i shield bash someone it looks like it goes right through their head, is that suppose to happen? or should i report that as a bug? what about arrows going through peoples legs? like were the legs open at this moment in time? or did my ping behind to high not render what i was seeing properly?
Sounds like what noudelle has been been doing, a small example:



Oh but hes a troll right? Noudelle is doing what you're describing.
 

Ferimer

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Not in this thread he isn't. Claiming its false advertising. and that the combat doesn't have a learning curve, you also realize that he took the quote from the blog posts that is talking about SP and not MP where balance issues will differ. But eh that's just he nature of the beast.. You people have gone ****ing stir crazy sitting inside for the last few weeks and waiting on this game for too long. instead of just being happy yall are miserable as ****
 

Younes

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Not in this thread he isn't. Claiming its false advertising. and that the combat doesn't have a learning curve, you also realize that he took the quote from the blog posts that is talking about SP and not MP where balance issues will differ. But eh that's just he nature of the beast.. You people have gone ****ing stir crazy sitting inside for the last few weeks and waiting on this game for too long. instead of just being happy yall are miserable as ****
Combat in multiplayer and singleplayer are the same. Honestly do i have to clarify everything for you?
 

JustinTime49

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Positive feedback tells the devs that they are doing something right. like have you never studied anything before?? Positive feedback can be constructive too. i.e.. hey taleworlds the shield bashing you added is much more balanced and worth having in the game now, thank you for implementing it. although it needs just a little bit more work.. sounds positive and constructive doesn't it, its a miracle
That is just plain weird. Why would I need to praise someone before I bring up a problem with their game? It's the same as saying to you;

"No offense, I like your lifestyle, but I think you should get a life".

There is a difference between constructive criticism displayed in an upfront manner, but when something is basically objectively unbalanced or broken, why would I start off saying it's fine?

Have you actually looked at Noudelle's description list? It is stuff I encounter constantly in-game, or even abuse in the game because I like winning.

mods will fix it :wink:
There are some cases where this is true, but we are talking about the literal foundation of the game.
 

Suspicious_Man

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I'm still confident that a lot of this stuff is going to get fixed, they just ran out of time and didn't want to push EA back because of how many times they've pushed the release back already. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 

flavberg

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It's actually more disappointing than it is angering to see community members fight over meaningless stuff, but it's also disappointing that nothing is quite being told as it should be. There are a lot of sides that argue about Bannerlord, but the most prominent ones are "Bannerlord needs some work" side and "Go back to Warband" side. I'm not going to get into which one has what type of people because it would just be triggering and discrediting people's opinions while praising others, which in some cases will be valid and in some cases it won't be.

What's actually wrong with Bannerlord? The core mechanics that sold the amazing and ambitious game called Warband are not as stable anymore. You have a large influx of people buying the sequel because they enjoyed the first one, and these people will buy the sequel or look forward to playing the sequel just because it's an improvement over Warband. Is it an improvement over Warband? Surely, in many regards, from performance to technology to graphics to audio design to modding tools to the engine itself to scenes to animations to models and textures and so on. But there are also some things that are not an improvement over Warband, and if you want examples, you can feel free to look up Noudelle's thread where countless of contributions have been brought. Why have these countless threads and novels written about certain mechanics? Because some people have tried them in a plethora of contexts and have concluded that they can be tweaked to work better.

These people were used to the Warband system, this is true, and it is normal for them to prefer a mechanic similar to what is familiar, but this is not why they prefer it. Many people, myself included, prefer the way some mechanics worked in Warband because they simply worked better. I kicked someone in Warband and risked a stab or someone running around me and slashing me in the back in order to get a stun and a hit on the enemy. This is not possible anymore because the kick stun is incredibly short. There is a delay on swinging, which completely destroys any sort of attempted timing while holding a swing. It also minimized the ability to pressure people into giving up defense by holding. There are various examples given in countless posts and threads made by active community members. Some of the mechanics hurt gameplay the way they are right now. The game isn't fluid. If in Bannerlord I can call bull**** over me glancing into an enemy at a completely normal angle which should produce normal damage, in Warband I cannot, because it didn't happen. The game was relatively stable in its mechanics.

Bannerlord was an ambitious game, as was Warband for its time. This game isn't Mordhau, as some people like to compare it, the combat system is more complex and requires a lot of tweaking. I don't think Taleworlds were ready to make such a complex game in such a short time, with all of the features and mechanics they planned. Game development is tough and time consuming, and poor Armagan and other developers are probably going into depression over these unstable and inconsistent issues that the game has, and early access was probably a good business decision to keep the game going, because at this point, it would probably have been given up otherwise. While I think people should understand Bannerlord has to be developed with proper feedback from the community, so should Bannerlord understand this. You cannot have hardstuck visions of a game if they're not what the community wants. Some mechanics have already been labelled as causing more harm than good, or adding nothing to the game, such as stances. There also needs to be more communication. The community is here, they give daily feedback, but the only answers we really receive is a patch changelog every couple of weeks with changes. Please, raise up the communication. Have someone from the combat team address these issues, have them talk to us, to the people who are actively trying to help this game get better. You only need one person to come and say, "hey, we did this because X" or "hey, your suggestion is really good, and we're looking into it". Someone has to give feedback, or you cause the impression that you're simply not listening.

Nobody wants a Warband 2.0, not TaleWorlds, not anyone, but as of right now, Bannerlord is not a very good candidate for the public market, and this is my honest opinion. New players are going to have a rough time in multiplayer, singleplayer will be the only thing they will really enjoy, and that's fine, as a lot of people focus on the singleplayer aspect of the game. Classes were added and the main argument was to facilitate the introduction of new players into the game. Has it, though? Sure, players don't have to choose equipment anymore, but they still have perks, and there will be a perk meta if there isn't already (although, some classes clearly have only some perks that are worth taking). Another argument was that they wanted every player to be able to pick whatever class they want, not only the "skilled" player with a lot of gold from kills, but then again, it kind of goes against the argument of "building effective teams", as new players will not usually cooperate with others because they are still learning and they want to explore the game for themselves, meaning they will choose classes based on what they feel like playing, ruining the game for themselves and for others. This will lead to them being absolutely destroyed because they went lancer and 1v1'd an enemy lancer without knowing the proper release timing on the lance and just died in 20 seconds from spawning, his experience ruined by constantly dying every time he tries this. Moreover, he's limited by gold now, so he has to go peasant class against the first wave of good enemy units. I would be surprised if the majority of these players didn't quit after their first Skirmish match. From a development standpoint, classes were a waste of time and money. Almost every single update, there has to be some sort of class or perk tweaking, because they're just never spot on, mostly due to lack of proper communication. It would have saved so much more time to just let people make their own classes with free equipment selection, like Warband's.

In any case, TL;DR, nobody wants a Warband 2.0, but some mechanics were done better in Warband than they are in Bannerlord, and this is not a singular opinion, but the opinion of many people. Do you think Warband was bad and Bannerlord was good? Good! Give arguments as to why and contribute in a healthy forum debate, but don't attack people and tell them to go play Warband, that's just petty. Communication and reaction to feedback should also be a priority from TaleWorlds to the community, especially as Early Access is coming. Tell us why you think your mechanics should work the way they do and why you think our arguments are bad, or vice-versa (which is pretty much already done). People need to see their opinions are taken into account.

In any case, sorry for the rant, but after spending so many hours of my life into enjoying TaleWorld's products and seeing this wave of disappointment and anger, I had to write something.
 

Dearmad

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your tldr is too long. wall of text with a mountain of text.

is that negative criticism helping you?
 

Squirrelfart

Squire
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Finally, an actual coherent, well-made post emerges from the most accurate virtual depiction of an exploding toilet produced by any forum.

On the topic of exploding toilets, can somebody lock this thread? It's devolved into...well, I don't know what it's devolved into anymore. Shut it down, guys, it's gone too far.

While I'm here, I would actually like to share my opinion on the topic of Bannerlord's multiplayer development. Many of the players here aren't asking for Warband 1:1 - you'll notice nobody advocates for the readdition of "complex feints" (read: sprite glitches) or something like hilting (1h, left-swing hitbox sweetspot that allowed for an instant hit). However, when people ask for more responsiveness in swing, or blocking, or even feedback regarding the stance system, they're instead asking for TW to attempt to address the fundamental concepts of the game, and use Warband as a foundation they can work with. Nobody wants the inclusion of 2h stabs that look like right swings but only if you planted your camera into the ground. They want responsive blocking and swinging, because that's what worked in Warband, yet the delays in Bannerlord seems to be less than Warband's system. Hence, TW should use Warband as a base, and attempt to improve on it from there, since their own, non-Warband idea doesn't seem to be working well.

Stances, swinging/blocking delays, etc. all are the foundation of the game, yet their inclusion into the game seems to be less stable than Warband's fundamental concepts (as most of these Warband players would agree), which is why they suggest implementing Warband features. They don't want Warband 1:1 - they think that current mechanics aren't shaping up to be as good as they could be, and suggest going to the most simple, functional solution, which is Warband, in some cases.
 

flavberg

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your tldr is too long. wall of text with a mountain of text.

is that negative criticism helping you?
There wasn't any negative criticism. I love TaleWorlds and I will continue to support them and enjoy their products, as I have Warband for over 8000 hours, but you don't have to read it, that's fine. Thank you for your reply anyway.
 

Ferimer

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This game has gone through how many engine changes? how many reiterations before they buckled in and started development. People are bashing the hell out of a beta. which is meant to test servers and battle mechanics. to imply its falsely advertised when its not even at 1.x.x.x.x is a low blow on a dev. TW has how many people working on it? Since its going into EA. instead of paying people to do it they will give them the tools to do it for free, smart move by the devs to not have to pay people to fix their game, ****ty practice but bethesda has done it for years. Community loves to mod it and it will continue to be a mod heavy game look at warband. Can any of you remember what the first MnB was like? What about Fire and sword? Warband? Napoleon? Vikings was reforged. At the end of the day i don't think acting as if a MP BETA is the core mechanics of a game is warranted. wait until EA is out or Full Release is out. They've iterated time and time again if you aren't sure of the gameplay then wait until full release, but let us the ones that actually want to be helpful and work towards a great do so instead you got people like this that when you get a new person to the forums see all the **** posting turn away. Reviews make and break a game and i know for a fact reviews by angry warband players or those that had bad experiences in Beta are going to trash this game come review time. This game will never get out of EA
 

Gunnerstrip7

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This game will get out of EA, and saying it won't is just as bad as the blind hate-mongering some people are doing because 'change bad.' Taleworlds will survive, vitriol is nothing new in the games industry. Just because the people who actually care to help the game improve aren't banging drums and screaming at the top of their lungs doesn't mean they don't exist. If anything the anti-Bannerlord circlejerk is a small minority, and I doubt they'll impact sales at all.
 

Noviix

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This game has gone through how many engine changes? how many reiterations before they buckled in and started development. People are bashing the hell out of a beta. which is meant to test servers and battle mechanics. to imply its falsely advertised when its not even at 1.x.x.x.x is a low blow on a dev. TW has how many people working on it? Since its going into EA. instead of paying people to do it they will give them the tools to do it for free, smart move by the devs to not have to pay people to fix their game, ****ty practice but bethesda has done it for years. Community loves to mod it and it will continue to be a mod heavy game look at warband. Can any of you remember what the first MnB was like? What about Fire and sword? Warband? Napoleon? Vikings was reforged. At the end of the day i don't think acting as if a MP BETA is the core mechanics of a game is warranted. wait until EA is out or Full Release is out. They've iterated time and time again if you aren't sure of the gameplay then wait until full release, but let us the ones that actually want to be helpful and work towards a great do so instead you got people like this that when you get a new person to the forums see all the **** posting turn away. Reviews make and break a game and i know for a fact reviews by angry warband players or those that had bad experiences in Beta are going to trash this game come review time. This game will never get out of EA

God can you just stop?

I've seen like 8 paragraphs of you spewing uninformed bull**** because you don't care to understand what anyone is actually asking for.
 

JustinTime49

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Can any of you remember what the first MnB was like? What about Fire and sword? Warband? Napoleon? Vikings was reforged.
This stood out to me the most out if all your BS.

Do you know why Vikings was reforged? Why mb and warband became successful and why others werent so fond of WFaS?

Only under heavy constructive criticism were many of these things polished and or rebooted, and it benefited both groups, players and devs alike. With that understanding, do you see how invested people, such as Noodle or Younes may feel when TW considers their game in it's current form of combat as superior, despite the glaring unbalanced and broken issues they try to shed light upon, only to be ignored.

I am sure we all support TW, and surely wish them the best so they can keep up these amazing products, but also try to understand how ignoring issues most devoted fans bring up might cause a rift and maybe 'backlash' such as this ****post.