Pentagathoos
Squire
It does appear that sometimes the enemy of my enemy is actually a bit of a ****.
TaleWorlds News: New News Necessary for the OT Neophytes
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Squire
Elon's doing some things right.
Russian space chief warns Elon Musk of consequences for providing Nazis of Ukraine with Starlink internet
Russian space chief has threatened Elon Musk of consequences for helping Ukraine armed forces and Nazi Azov Battalion with internet connectivity via his company Starlink. | OpIndia News
www.opindia.com
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There are over 10,000 starlink terminals operational in Ukraine. The Azov regiment isn't using all of them.Supporting neo-Nazis?
How Elon Musk’s Starlink Got Battle-Tested in Ukraine
Fast-expanding satellite broadband services are proving decisive during war and other emergencies.
foreignpolicy.com
SpaceX's Starlink has 150,000 daily users in Ukraine
Ukraine's vice prime minister Mykhailo Fedorov tweeted that Elon Musk's Starlink was providing 'crucial support' for the country's infrastructure and 'restoring the destroyed territories'.
Yeah, by this logic everyone who has sent any kind of aid to Ukraine is also a Nazi supporter. It doesn't quite hold up, because Azov is the only group of any considerable size and even then they are still quite a small portion of the Ukrainian National Guard. There are thousands of Ukrainians for each Azov member, and they've got homes to defend.Supporting neo-Nazis?
But they are not fighting for democracy. They do like nationalism and race theories though.
If Nazis could be made to fight for a democracy every country would have their SS corps. Not just the country we can't criticize right now.
A Czech journalist spent some time and his opinion basically was that the unit is not really built on anything race-related, but rather on very intensive anti-russism. My point though is that an army naturally attracts radicals and that a country can not afford to eliminate radicals from its ranks in a bad weather. Does the Azov fight for the right side? Yes. Is it the most important consideration? Also yes.
Whatever they believe, they are defending their homeland from foreign invaders. If my country is invaded, I hope all its citizens will rally to its defence irrespective of their political persuasions.But they are not fighting for democracy. They do like nationalism and race theories though.
If Nazis could be made to fight for a democracy every country would have their SS corps. Not just the country we can't criticize right now.
Aw, ****. MadVader beat me to it. Well, it should be obvious that I didn't mean that ALL Ukrainians were Nazis; that would kinda be ridiculous. I got the feeling the guy in the article specifically reproached Musk for supporting the Azov battalion, but I may have misinterpreted.
Still.
Well, a couple of points here:
- the enemy of the (current) enemy isn't either a friend or a "good guy", in the side of "right"; Nazis (and neo-Nazis, extreme rightists, extreme leftists and any dangerous extremist of any persuasion) are not "good guys", period. That's not even up for debate.
- a Nazi fighting for Democracy? Really, Ben?
Still.
Well, a couple of points here:
- the enemy of the (current) enemy isn't either a friend or a "good guy", in the side of "right"; Nazis (and neo-Nazis, extreme rightists, extreme leftists and any dangerous extremist of any persuasion) are not "good guys", period. That's not even up for debate.
- a Nazi fighting for Democracy? Really, Ben?
That reads suspiciously pro-Nazi. Again, not in the sense of "people shouldn't defend their homes", but somehow, I get from it something along the lines of "eh, it doesn't matter if they are five-star turds, killing people for years just because they don't agree with their religion, skin colour or opinion, because NOW they are defending their homes". Maybe I am wrong and read way too deep into this.
These people are also defending their country from Roma, Muslims, Jews, communists, people of Russian ethnicity, and non-whites in general. They do a lot of defending!
Maybe. I doubt that many of them will survive the steelworks. So we'll never know.These people are also defending their country from Roma, Muslims, Jews, communists, people of Russian ethnicity, and non-whites in general. They do a lot of defending!
You are. My political leanings are liberal/socialist.
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What makes this so silly to me is that NATO has gone to war and destroyed entire countries in very recent history on the pretense of eliminating foreign extremism. The official story of NATO interventionism and moralistic finger-wagging over the last 30 years has been about spreading and enforcing liberal ideology. So when the most organised military / political force in Ukraine is openly fascist, it exposes the entire thing as a sham.
I actually agree that an army naturally attracts insane people and you often have to ignore them during a war. Every military in Europe probably has similar proportions of (closeted) Azov-like people in their ranks. But the fact that my own government is going out of its way to send billions of my tax pounds to these people and pretend they aren't Nazis is just insane hypocrisy, considering that if there were Azovites in the UK they would be jailed or extradited.
Our UK government (along with the USA & Russia) signed the 1994 Budapest Memorandum supposedly supporting Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in exchange for their nuclear disarmament. You might want to read it. https://www.securitycouncilreport.org/atf/cf/{65BFCF9B-6D27-4E9C-8CD3-CF6E4FF96FF9}/s_1994_1399.pdf
While the Russians have broken their pledges and blocked moves in the security council, we (in the UK) still owe Ukraine some support for the pledges we made.
Ukraine might not have needed Azov bedfellows, if they had retained a nuclear deterrent against Russian imperialism.
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Jacob, you are not from a country that has any historical experience with Russia nor any experience with foreign occupation, widespread destruction and war crimes, being a puppet state, oppression and human rights abuse or with authoritarianism as such. I am. To quote very fitting Jeremy Irons' line from Margin Call: "this is it. This is it!"
I don't care if Ukraine deploys hamsters on unicycles. As long as they can point the guns to the right direction, let's give the hamsters whatever they need. I get the reluctance to arm the Ukrainians before the invasion as noone thought the Russians would be crazy enough to invade and secondly there was an expectation that the Ukrainians would collapse in a week, with the guns being seized by the Russians. Withdrawing aid from Ukraine military on moral grounds at the present time, especially with such a clumsy excuse as that there are bad people in an army that clock more than 200.000 men even before mobilisation, is a complete lunacy for me. Especially when the Azov has been, you know, shot to **** by a ****ing Russian army in a city that has been levelled.
Maybe this is some kind of enlightened intellectual pacifist categorical imperative thing that is too western for me but I am completely lost as to how our perspectives can be so incredibly different.
I don't care if Ukraine deploys hamsters on unicycles. As long as they can point the guns to the right direction, let's give the hamsters whatever they need. I get the reluctance to arm the Ukrainians before the invasion as noone thought the Russians would be crazy enough to invade and secondly there was an expectation that the Ukrainians would collapse in a week, with the guns being seized by the Russians. Withdrawing aid from Ukraine military on moral grounds at the present time, especially with such a clumsy excuse as that there are bad people in an army that clock more than 200.000 men even before mobilisation, is a complete lunacy for me. Especially when the Azov has been, you know, shot to **** by a ****ing Russian army in a city that has been levelled.
Maybe this is some kind of enlightened intellectual pacifist categorical imperative thing that is too western for me but I am completely lost as to how our perspectives can be so incredibly different.
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My personal view is that Azov is a bit of a straw man. First of all I think it is safe to assume that the Russian person specifically pointed to them because they are an obvious target. It's not like we can take anything coming from Russia for good. They are masters of spreading misinformation.
Saying that Elon Musk (who, for the record, I absolutely despise) is supporting Nazis by selling services to the Ukraine military seems like nonsense to me. He has done way worse on Twitter and frankly in his factories.
Also, I can about guarantee that every nation has at least a battalion of complete pieces of ****. Your taxpayer money is already paying for neonazis in your own country (they might even be in the parliament depending on where you live).
Saying that Elon Musk (who, for the record, I absolutely despise) is supporting Nazis by selling services to the Ukraine military seems like nonsense to me. He has done way worse on Twitter and frankly in his factories.
Also, I can about guarantee that every nation has at least a battalion of complete pieces of ****. Your taxpayer money is already paying for neonazis in your own country (they might even be in the parliament depending on where you live).
I don't think or expect that the UK or any other western country is going to withdraw military aid or try to de-escalate the war or whatever. I was just highlighting the reason why people are saying "the azovs are nazis". It almost has nothing to do with Azov itself, and much more the insane hypocrisy of how the war is portrayed compared to any other conflict the NATO has embroiled itself in.
you may wanna recheck that thought
