I'm calm as a Hindu cow. I'm essentially pro-choice, I just think the pro-choice arguments are usually terrible
Good, let us both breathe. Elaborate, what do you mean by pro-choice postulates ? Lets compare apples to apples.
Everybody has to establish a treshold of what is reasonable and what is not in his/hers life's decision making process. No holy book, legislation nor anybody's teachings will ever change that. It can influence it though. To quote the Geralt from Rivia..
"Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same." The only person who have to face all the consequences is the very person that acts. This is what the choice is (to me).
See i may have twisted look on that because of where i live. Brutal rape, lethal brain changes, woman's health, no exceptions... all those were recently questioned as a valid reason because of "no, all life is saint". It doesn't mean it is a unvalid assumption - but it means it will affect other's lifes no matter the woman/family wants, thinks is best for her/them. We shouldn't discuss doctrines but people exploiting them. Catholicism without people is nothing more than a set of rules and morals, a fairy tale of some sort (like any other religion). It does however involve people making valid points of what is good and what is evil which makes "The Bible" valuable and universal position.
Church on the other hand as a "spiritual guidance", "the temple of God" fails on the whole front... mostly feeds on: guilt motif, eternal damnation, promise of salvation to all who obey, fear of death, name it.
I wasn't accusing you of failing to save the world
I thought it was obvious it was satire of what I consider a fallacy that whenever religious, but typically Christians argue for some moral convictons, they are held - as a counterargument - to incredibly high standards of personal conduct. As if they were not allowed to have convictions unless they are some sort of cartoonish saint who has never done any wrong. Consider how insane it sounds when you remove the religious language from the equation - "You think people should recycle? But you are a bit of an alcoholic. Ha, you're not perfect and flawless, therefore your argument is invalid." It is actually even more absurd when applied to Christianity, since it's explicitly based on the concept that all sin, so "accusing" a Christian of being a sinner is kind of making their point for them.
I got it but it was clearly pointing out hypocrisy - i admitted. I haven't said (or my intention was) that they cannot have convictions. They can, and should be able to speak freely about those (which you clearly pointing out they are persecuted for). I just see they do not accept any other point of view (to put it lightly) moreover would like to lay down the law for anybody as they see fit (which happened in Poland) and are so childish about "not well though" consequences (God wanted this, God will take care of it). And i am not saying they are the only ones doing it - those guys are just around, affecting anything i do and everywhere i look to be frank.
Come on, there is **** tons of Catholic charities and social work outfits. I'm a lapsed Catholic, I have all kinds of problems and reservations about the Church, but this anti-Catholic memery that everything that has a crucifix on the wall is a house of terror and abuse is just Hollywood bull****. I have long term and excellent experience with several hospices and institutions for mentally retarded that are run by nuns that are absolute top tier in the whole country. I'm not saying it's all peachy, but it's not all awful either. I'm not taking away your bad experience from you, and I am under no illusion that it was super rare and unique. But it's also not the entire Catholic experience.
So you want me to admit there are good people who tend to be catholics. Of course, i have no doubt about it. And i believe nobody will object with that. Catholicism in Poland has recently (or i was just blind before
) evolved to some ultraconservative form that influences politics and therfore people's lifes - but even here there are good people who believe in Jesus. I don't believe one cannot be a good Christian / Catholic and remain silent to everything Church does - and this not necesarilly means he or she is a hypocrite.