TaleWorlds News: New News Necessary for the OT Neophytes

[Curiocaueri]

Surely if you menstraute you would not consider yourself male - even trans male.

What else do you think trans male means, if not someone born in a female body (a body that usually menstruates) who identifies as male?

If being male can include menstruation it can incude anything, and gender (male/female) seizes to exist as phenomenon.

Menstruation is a biological thing that happens inside your body and pr much only affects yourself, gender (as opposed to sex) refers to cultural and social traits and expressions

It also means non-binary is invalid since it implies a binary (male/female) dichotomy, that doesn't exist.

You almost got it there though, since people exist outside of the male/female spectrum, meaning gender isn't just binary, which is pr much what non-binary refers to. Wouldn't that make it more valid though, setting itself apart from a false dichotomy?

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Obviously, but you can't deny that it's had an effect on both the ease and frequency of such public shamings, not to mention that it has also fostered a "cancel culture".

Cancel culture does exist, but it is way less influential than people think it is. There are a few cases of random people losing their jobs by being outed as white supremacists or for harrassing people in public or whatever, but for the most part twitter mobs have very little influence outside of specific twitter communities. Most of the really aggressive cancel guys are either kpop weirdos (I'm not kidding) who will mostly harrass people who take the mick out of their stupid cloned bishonen idols, or they are tumblr-exiled teenagers who mostly go after leftist youtubers. For the most part, if someone is already a celebrity, typically the most they'll be "forced" to do is issue an apology and then most people just forget it within a week.

I don't scour twitter for examples of course so there are probably tonnes of situations I don't know about, but I still feel like "cancel culture" is a buzzword that doesn't really have much impact on reality.

 

[Calradianın bilgesi]

I think "soft punishment" "criminals as the victims of the society" "focus on rehabilitation rather than retribution" "being against corporal punishment" "making it difficult to punish people in general" were valuable left-wing ideas. It seems to me that the contemporary left-wing identity politics left is backtracking on a lot of this stuff. To be fair they are still not handing power over the state. But I see many suggesting that it's fine to punch a nazi just because he's a nazi. Not because it's effective or helps with anything. Just for the retribution. I think that change in the dominant left-wing moral philosophy is regrettable and harmful. People seem to be more OK with crossing off people indefinitely over one particular behaviour.

 

[Adorno]

that's complete nonsense. aren't you supposed to be a nurse? how do you not know even the most basic thing about trans folk?

I can't tell if you're being ironic. Some of it is nonsense, yes.
As a nurse I've only met very few trans people, but that's irrelevant since it's about physiology.
We once had a young man dressed as woman and wanted to be addressed as woman. That's fine, but he had epididymitis, which is ironic. Diseases dont'care what you feel like.

What else do you think trans male means, if not someone born in a female body (a body that usually menstruates) who identifies as male?

But male/female doesn't exist. If it does, what defines it? I don't see any definition that will include everyone. Some who identify as females will be male and some who identify as males will be females.

 

[Vermillion_Hawk]

Cancel culture does exist, but it is way less influential than people think it is. There are a few cases of random people losing their jobs by being outed as white supremacists or for harrassing people in public or whatever, but for the most part twitter mobs have very little influence outside of specific twitter communities. Most of the really aggressive cancel guys are either kpop weirdos (I'm not kidding) who will mostly harrass people who take the mick out of their stupid cloned bishonen idols, or they are tumblr-exiled teenagers who mostly go after leftist youtubers. For the most part, if someone is already a celebrity, typically the most they'll be "forced" to do is issue an apology and then most people just forget it within a week.

I don't scour twitter for examples of course so there are probably tonnes of situations I don't know about, but I still feel like "cancel culture" is a buzzword that doesn't really have much impact on reality.

Maybe it's because I've worked in a government agency but I've personally seen people use social media to ruin a couple people's lives/careers, and these weren't kpop weirdos or tumblr teenagers. All it took in one case was an accusation of sexual abuse (which I personally know to have been flagrantly untrue and the accuser was possibly committing it herself) and a few supportive comments from people who are more than eager to jump on a situation only hearing one side of it, and a career was halted. Officially, it was a "leave of absence", but there was no schedule for a return date and the guy in question ended up leaving his department entirely out of necessity.

My point is that social media gives these people the tools to piggyback onto actual societal problems for their own benefit, and since government organizations/corporations are eager to satisfy moral watchdogs in the way that entails the least amount of scrutiny they will gladly jettison people, often quietly, in order to spit on the proverbial fire.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I can't tell if you're being ironic. Some of it is nonsense, yes.
As a nurse I've only met very few trans people, but that's irrelevant since it's about physiology.
We once had a young man dressed as woman and wanted to be addressed as woman. That's fine, but he had epididymitis, which is ironic. Diseases dont'care what you feel like.

ah, so you're just an *******. good to know.

 

[Adorno]

I'm so much an ***** I don't even know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[kurczak]

I'm pretty sure it goes like this:

Trans male are people with female anatomy who identify as men.
They will typically, at least up to a certain in the hormone therapy / surgery, menstruate.
Some trans men menstruate.
"Trans x" are "x".
Tran men are men.
Some men menstruate.
"People who menstruate are women" is a wrong statement.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

I'm so much an ***** I don't even know what I'm doing wrong.

for example, misgendering folks is generally considered a **** move

__

yes, kurczak.
it is not least also a problem because a bunch of even cis women don't menstruate, for whatever reason.

 

[Adorno]

I was referring to physiology, not gender.

I'm pretty sure it goes like this:

Trans male are people with female anatomy who identify as men.
They will typically, at least up to a certain in the hormone therapy / surgery, menstruate.
Some trans men menstruate.
"Trans x" are "x".
Tran men are men.
Some men menstruate.
"People who menstruate are women" is a wrong statement.

I still need a definition of what a man and a woman is.

 

[kurczak]

Within the mainstream trans theory, I think it's self-identification as such.

 

[Zombie Warrior]

ah, so you're just an *******. good to know.

This is not cool, definitely not cool. Sorry, but that's just rude and wrong.

 

[Calradianın bilgesi]

Many people I know will leave the definition of "womanhood" "manhood" mysterious, but will insist that if someone claims that they are of certain gender, then you should accept what they say. It's not necessarily that self-identification constitutes gender.

 

[kurczak]

So they don't know what it is, but they know they're it?

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

I think "soft punishment" "criminals as the victims of the society" "focus on rehabilitation rather than retribution" "being against corporal punishment" "making it difficult to punish people in general" were valuable left-wing ideas. It seems to me that the contemporary left-wing identity politics left is backtracking on a lot of this stuff.

The political spectrum is just a vague identification scale and doesn't represent similarity in philosophy, morals or even policies. You can't even say left wing means "against the hegemon" because postmodern pro-capitalist liberalism which focuses on identity and iconography over politics is the current hegemon and lots of people call liberals left wing.
The kinds of people who go around in scolding condescending mobs attacking everything that moves are aesthetically "left" but are sometimes the most racist and classist people ever. Some of the most offensive and discriminatory stuff I've ever had directed at me has come from these guys. To say that they are backtracking against things like empathetic legal punishment which they have no meaningful political ties to is a bit ridiculous imo.

 

[Calradianın bilgesi]

they often have definitions, but they are less committed to make everyone accept their favourite definition of gender. But they're committed to make sure people take other people's gender identifications at face value.
And we use a lot of terms without knowing their precise definitions tbh.

 

[Adorno]

Within the mainstream trans theory, I think it's self-identification as such.

Is that not a complete linguistic breakdown? If a 100% physiological woman indentifies as man and a 100% physiological man identifies as woman, gender becomes merely an idea.
If a non-binary person says male/female doesn't exist and a trans male identify as such, then communication has broken down.

 

[Antoine de Saint-Exupéry]

a comfortable dumbing down for you: gender is the identification, sex is the physiology. they are not identical.

cf

gender (as opposed to sex) refers to cultural and social traits and expressions

 

[kurczak]

gender becomes merely an idea.

I think that' a feature, not a bug.

Judging from contrapoints' videos, it's a matter of controversy within the community itself too. That some think that you have to make at least a meaningful attempt to look an act like the other gender. Which is defined as the sum of behavior and social roles at a given time in the given place. So it's not set in stone forever, but it exists independently of any single individual's notion of what gender is. But others seem to, uh, vigorously disagree. I have no idea how non-binariness works into that.

Edit: btw this happened recently. While perhaps common sense in itself, it's still notable for being ruled on by 6-3 majority of the current SC, which many thought to be the most conservative SC since god knows when.

 

[Adorno]

a comfortable dumbing down for you: gender is the identification, sex is the physiology. they are not identical.

What sex is a man who menstruates?