Taleworlds nerfing things too hard

[xHDxzero]

sure i get things need to be nerfed because there too good. i from day one would have liked council of commens to be nerfed because it was by far the best policy in the game and destroyed the influence gain for both the player and the AI

but i have been noticing that most of the time they nerfe something that was OP or really good (like launch day workshops, caravans, ETC) but most of the time they over do it to the point that it is almost worthless. like after the caravan nerf they would insta die to bandits before taleworlds toned it down a bit.

i havent played the 1.4 beta but the 1/20 nerf to donating soldiers sounds to me like a example of them over nerving something again(but if i am complety wrong please tell me)

so maybe in the future they instead of nerving everything into the ground and then after a while buffing it to the point it is useable again.
just nerve it a little. see if it is still too good then nerve it sligthy again. until you get to a point that it is still useable but not OP either.
i think that would be a better option then these aggresive nerfs we got the past few patches

 

[HumanCancer]

TaleWorlds nerfing their game sequels too hard.

 

[Sirwalterhorstsock]

sure i get things need to be nerfed because there too good. i from day one would have liked council of commens to be nerfed because it was by far the best policy in the game and destroyed the influence gain for both the player and the AI

but i have been noticing that most of the time they nerfe something that was OP or really good (like launch day workshops, caravans, ETC) but most of the time they over do it to the point that it is almost worthless. like after the caravan nerf they would insta die to bandits before taleworlds toned it down a bit.

i havent played the 1.4 beta but the 1/20 nerf to donating soldiers sounds to me like a example of them over nerving something again(but if i am complety wrong please tell me)

so maybe in the future they instead of nerving everything into the ground and then after a while buffing it to the point it is useable again.
just nerve it a little. see if it is still too good then nerve it sligthy again. until you get to a point that it is still useable but not OP either.
i think that would be a better option then these aggresive nerfs we got the past few patches

There doing big changes to see impact on game first then making minor adjustments with that data to fine tune , I think it’s more effective than small changes over a longer time period just caused some issues short term I prefer it

 

[avenger1024]

sure i get things need to be nerfed because there too good. i from day one would have liked council of commens to be nerfed because it was by far the best policy in the game and destroyed the influence gain for both the player and the AI

but i have been noticing that most of the time they nerfe something that was OP or really good (like launch day workshops, caravans, ETC) but most of the time they over do it to the point that it is almost worthless. like after the caravan nerf they would insta die to bandits before taleworlds toned it down a bit.

i havent played the 1.4 beta but the 1/20 nerf to donating soldiers sounds to me like a example of them over nerving something again(but if i am complety wrong please tell me)

so maybe in the future they instead of nerving everything into the ground and then after a while buffing it to the point it is useable again.
just nerve it a little. see if it is still too good then nerve it sligthy again. until you get to a point that it is still useable but not OP either.
i think that would be a better option then these aggresive nerfs we got the past few patches

One more time for the people in the back: This is Early Access.

Large balance swings are to be expected as numbers are tweaked. Making a large change then tuning is much easier than repeatedly making small changes over a long time.

 

[Çağtay]

There doing big changes to see impact on game first then making minor adjustments with that data to fine tune , I think it’s more effective than small changes over a longer time period just caused some issues short term I prefer it

this sounds logical to me,seeing both extreme ends and adjusting accordingly to find middle ground

 

[Lord Irontoe]

well, I don't know if its too much or not, but it definitely seems like the buffs are small and incremental while the nerfs are big and heavy.

 

[Sidrath]

I think some brutal nerfs were justified. Council of the Commons was so mistuned that I would actually reload earlier saves if anyone in my faction ever proposed it - it would always get support, and immediately trivialise the Influence system. Easy support for other Lords, easy to raise and maintain armies indefinitely.

The 95% nerf to Influence from donating prisoners is one I'm much less keen on. As it stands I already feel Influence gain is far too heavily tilted in favour of status (e.g. owning cities with Forums, + policies that favour land ownership and high-tier Clans) and not enough in favour of actions (winning battles, especially battles against warring kingdoms). You could argue, this is realistic: status matters. The problem is, as it stands, the game won't give you the time to build up your status. The speed at which the maps can start to snowball means you as a player need to play aggressively to rake in that Influence and steer world events. This nerf effectively delays the player's ability to start marshalling armies for their faction, leaving them even more at the mercy of snowballs. If Taleworlds can figure out the magic formula for keeping kingdoms intact for longer, then fantastic! But until they've done that, all this achieves is impair the player's ability to intervene in a timely manner.

This nerf also immediately kills off the playstyle of a high-calibre Mercenary clan. Personally I quite enjoyed the notion of landing a cozy "250 denar per Inf" contract, and then going on a rampage catching lots of high-value prisoners during wartime, and delivering them to the nearest friendly city. "Here, proof of my good work, where's my pay?". Could easily get to a stage of earning a steady 1.5-2k denar per day from the Infuence ticks so long as you kept fighting prodigiously.

Now? If you want money, you're back to caravans and workshops (though not in 1.4, as both those features are not currently functioning). The Influence gain, after a 95% nerf, is so paltry that it might as well not exist: you're just donating prisoners to take the load off your shoulder.

 

[chemical_art]

Players are often clever in magnifying small buffs while mitigating nerfs
?‍

On a similar note if a single large nerf that is gradually dialed back into balance is found then back players will say why are nerfs done large. but if nerfs are increased in increments until balance is found other players will say why are they dragging out the pain rather then just get it done.
?‍

 

[mr_nifty]

I think some brutal nerfs were justified. Council of the Commons was so mistuned that I would actually reload earlier saves if anyone in my faction ever proposed it - it would always get support, and immediately trivialise the Influence system. Easy support for other Lords, easy to raise and maintain armies indefinitely.

The 95% nerf to Influence from donating prisoners is one I'm much less keen on. As it stands I already feel Influence gain is far too heavily tilted in favour of status (e.g. owning cities with Forums, + policies that favour land owneship and high-tier Clans) and not enough in favour of actions (winning battles, especially battles against warring kingdoms). This nerf also immediately kills off the playstyle of a high-calibre Mercenary clan. Personally I quite enjoyed the notion of landing a cozy "250 denar per Inf" contract, and then going on a rampage catching lots of high-value prisoners during wartime, and delivering them to the nearest friendly city. "Here, proof of my good work, where's my pay?". Could easily get to a stage of earning a steady 1.5-2k denar per day from the Infuence ticks so long as you kept fighting prodigiously.

Now? If you want money, you're back to caravans and workshops (though not in 1.4, as both those features are not currently functioning). The Influence gain, after a 95% nerf, is so paltry that it might as well not exist: you're just donating prisoners to take the load off your shoulder.

I agree. It should be upped again, I felt the same when playing as a mercenary as you did. I think Lords and similar high value-people (leaders of factions and minor factions) should give quite a decent reward in both influence and money if you hand them over, but also regular prisoners and troops should yield rewards.

 

[Dabos37]

No, TW is doing right nerfs and I even think that nerfs are not enough and player is still able to get money too easy.

 

[xHDxzero]

hmmmmm interesting results. thank you all for taking time to respond. while the results do suprise me a bit. but the points you made are also really good. i understand that this early acces(kinda forgot when writing so my bad) so big changes are to expected. also while i still believe some of the nerfs are really harsh i do think that almost all things that did get nerfed needed to be nerfed because they were too good

also all of these heavy nerfs where on the beta versions and most of the time get tweaked to a more reasonable level when the stable version comes out(except for the caravan nerf wich was aplied to both the beta and stable version when it came out).

 

[Ggoddkkiller]

I started a new campaign 3 days ago and it took only 2 days (Around 6 hours) for me to reach 140 + 80 men in garrison, first castle, afford buying gear for me and my companions and i still have like 600k so it doesn't matter at all im actually loosing several thousand gold everyday and the worst of all this was supposed to be realistic difficulty!! Vanilla Warband nor any Warband mod isn't this easy even in lower difficulties so ofc TW will keep nerfing every single thing until the game becomes challenging a little bit as the struggle to become a lord was one of the most fun things about Warband...

 

[Horang]

Nerfing itself is not bad. But it seems that TW couldn't understand this is not a MMORPGlike game.

Main contents of bannerlord is single play campaign and you can choose difficulty and use those so many mods.

So meaning of balancing in this game is supporting game system. Economy, environment, battle, and etc. But balancing on bannerlord is ruining those system.

For example, price of high tier armor and weapons. Perhaps TW thought getting high tier equipments too early would make game loose. But it is stupid idea. Player who want to easy battle just lower their difficulty. Players who want to get high tier equipment in early stage just use cheatmod. Now those stupidly expensive equipments are ruining game's economic system. You can easily earn huge amount of money with crafted weapons. Your high tier soldiers wearing a castle, even you pay them just 20 denar each a day. WTF?

Nerfing on workshop and caravan just ruining gameplay experience playing as a merchant. After 1.3 update bannerlord makes you a horse fxxker. Because only merchandise you can make profit is horses. In next update, you may can't make profit with horses cuz I said it here.

 

[RavenMount]

This is pretty typical among game developers for some reason, I see it all the time. I'm guessing they do it for the psychology reason.

- People don't like 'neft' in general.
- Small neft that turns out not enough gonna result in more neft.
- 3 small nefts will piss a lot more people off than 1 big neft even if the net value at the end are the same. (WHAT!! YOU NEFT MY FAVORITE SKILL AGAIN!?!?!)

And to think these nefts are often extreme enough that I'm pretty sure most dev (again not just TW) know for sure they're overshooting it. So another reason is so they can give it a small 'buff' to bring it back to target and appease people.

 

[Dabos37]

I have never understand why people complain too much about nerfs. I still remember the caravans rant, It was absurd.

 

[quietresolve]

nobody cares about what they did on balancing... They need to FINISH the game first

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I'm gonna no opinion this one. All the nerfs so far I could take or leave. Tourney exp, okay....less tourney exp...k...less tourney armor....k.......less caravan power.....k.....(in my recent games AI caravans still had 40 guys and were harder then many lords?)....less money for shops I didn't use....k

 

[VanHoven]

nah im fine with the nerfs. workshops earning around 200 to 300 a day when you set them up correctly feels pretty much fine to me. thats about 30 soldiers wages. progression is extremely fast. sure, i dont want mmo grind but fielding a large army of top tier troops should feel like an accomplishment not like the base. same with top armor. xp gain still feels too slow for me though, especially on outliers like tactics, medicine etc.

 

[black_bulldog]

For beta's that I've been involved with it's pretty standard to nerf the crap out of stuff then incrementally move back to a middle ground. I honestly think some of the nerfs were needed while others were probably overkill.

 

[Xarfai]

It's still too easy to get rich and powerful very fast. What's the point of having children to take over when you can conquer the world in just one generation?