Taleworlds nerfing things too hard

[Bob Gnarly]

I have no problem with TW tweaking game balance based on analysis of player data and feedback.

Personally I find the game more enjoyable when there's some semblance of balance.

 

[Dabos37]

I have no problem with TW tweaking game balance based on analysis of player data and feedback.

Personally I find the game more enjoyable when there's some semblance of balance.

Agreed. Game is currently much more enjoyable than before and It is all about balancing because we have not got still any new content. Balancing and bug fixing are necessary and glad to see that TW is priorizing this while at same time working on new features.

I still find making money too easy, and It is mostly related to Tannery Workshops being too profitable in everywhere.

 

[panxo_dakilla]

That's actually a good point I never thought of.

Don't worry mates, rebellions and other stuff will slow down the world conquering.

 

[Irønfoot]

I still think they need to nerf more things, for example tournament should occur less frequently.
It's still easy to make money too.

 

[Dabos37]

Day 132 playing at highest difficulty:

15

Image 15 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

But yes, TW is nerfing things too hard and it is too hard to make money in the game .

 

[StewVader]

Day 132 playing at highest difficulty:

15

Image 15 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

But yes, TW is nerfing things too hard and it is too hard to make money in the game .

Are people saying its too hard? Its easy to make gold. You literally snowball after you get your workshops and caravans. And the only trade route you need to manual is iron ore from Battania to OcsHall. You can even buy super cheap horses in Battania. The game is simple, boring, and lacks any sort of depth across all of its features.

I will be really surprised if this game becomes anything more than a grindy (influence) map painter.

 

[Mikey]

They need to FINISH the game first

This. Trying to balance a game that's missing so many key features is rather pointless.

 

[Dabos37]

This. Trying to balance a game that's missing so many key features is rather pointless.

So, games like total war Warhammer which are getting new content constantly, factions, map variaciones, new features, etc, should no be balanced until all stuff get release, right?

This is just and excuse IMO, and working on balancing is worthwhile since day 1, even if 50% of content is still being developed (which is not the case). Anyway, I am failling to ser how the missing content could change the fact of getting money is too easy. Yes, we will probably have more ways to spend money but currently you can get much more money than you need.

 

[Mikey]

So, games like total war Warhammer which are getting new content constantly, factions, map variaciones, new features, etc, should no be balanced until all stuff get release, right?

Nice strawman. As far as I know, TW:WH released as a finished, feature-complete game. So of course it would require a balancing pass when or if they add whole new features to that.
Bannerlord, meanwhile, is far from a complete game, and IMO much of the balancing we're seeing seems pointless in the game's current state. If it had been what the Steam sales description stated, a finished game with only obscure bugs, then yeah, sure, an EA phase is a fine tool for rebalancing things. But that's not where we are.

 

[eddiemccandless]

Nice strawman. As far as I know, TW:WH released as a finished, feature-complete game. So of course it would require a balancing pass when or if they add whole new features to that.
Bannerlord, meanwhile, is far from a complete game, and IMO much of the balancing we're seeing seems pointless in the game's current state. If it had been what the Steam sales description stated, a finished game with only obscure bugs, then yeah, sure, an EA phase is a fine tool for rebalancing things. But that's not where we are.

I would agree with you in general, but in this case if they waited until new content comes out we wouldn't have any changes to the game to a month of two. The bug fixes and balance changes are to try and deliver a semi enjoyable experience to people while we wait for the new content (and they are, albeit very slowly, delivering new content. See for example the one handed perks in the beta).

 

[Dabos37]

Nice strawman. As far as I know, TW:WH released as a finished, feature-complete game. So of course it would require a balancing pass when or if they add whole new features to that.
Bannerlord, meanwhile, is far from a complete game, and IMO much of the balancing we're seeing seems pointless in the game's current state. If it had been what the Steam sales description stated, a finished game with only obscure bugs, then yeah, sure, an EA phase is a fine tool for rebalancing things. But that's not where we are.

TW Warhammer if far to be completed. Game 3 has not been released yet. When Game 2 was released, all units had to be rebalanced.

Balancing is a key part to make a game enjoyable.

 

[Mikey]

TW Warhammer if far to be completed. Game 3 has not been released yet.

Those are individual games that you can play together if you own both, so that example doesn't really fly. Not that I'm a particular fan of selling the same game three times either, but you're the one who brought them up, not me.

 

[Warlord123123]

Game is already too easy. If anything, it needs ironman mode where you cant do scum saving/cheasing.

 

[Nakh]

I don't get nerfing money sources because money mean absolutely nothing in this game. There is nothing to buy, except useless shiny armor, nothing to spend all this money what come from slaughtering and looting enemy lords.What difference between player having 100 000 gold or 10 000 000? No difference at all.

 

[9yearsago]

They nerfed influence too much, it does not affect you in late game tha much but if you are a mercenary and rely on donating prisoners, you can't get out anything decent anymore.

 

[Sheepify]

I don't think the "nerfs" are bad, as such (though I'll skip on the discussion of futility of "balancing" before getting all the content in place for the sake of brievity, as concerning as I find the practice to be).

What I think is the problem is that there are no new alternatives introduced along with the nerfs. Council of Commons is a good example. Was the influence nerf warranted? Absolutely (though it shouldn't matter at this stage how much influence the player gets, anyway - if anything, it helped testing what little of end-game content there was much faster... AARGH, ok, ok, I stop).

But we didn't get any other means of earning that influence beyond what was already there. And if people relied on CoC, it was precisely because the other reliable sources of it were either very circumstantial (finding and winning enough large-scale battles), or simply insufficient to deal with things like stacked -clan influence kingdom policies.

You shouldn't HAVE to minmax Charm just to participate in kingdom politics as a vassal. It should make it that much easier, but not a requirement - otherwise what's the point of the new skill learning mechanics that, supposedly, should allow you to play as you like?

The game needs expansion of current systems in most places to be enjoyable and truly open sandbox. The resulting player experience after the various nerfs merely highlight that need.

And this goes right back to the "balancing before expanded content" argument.

 

[Dabos37]

I don't get nerfing money sources because money mean absolutely nothing in this game. There is nothing to buy, except useless shiny armor, nothing to spend all this money what come from slaughtering and looting enemy lords.What difference between player having 100 000 gold or 10 000 000? No difference at all.

You feel that way about money because you have never needed money. Actually, money is a pretty important resources in the game but like It is extremely easy to get, people do not even noticed It.

In Warband, while It is still relatively easy to get money, you actually need to care about your finances, even when you have the same or even less ways to spend your money than in Bannerlord.

 

[Dabos37]

I don't think the "nerfs" are bad, as such (though I'll skip on the discussion of futility of "balancing" before getting all the content in place for the sake of brievity, as concerning as I find the practice to be).

What I think is the problem is that there are no new alternatives introduced along with the nerfs. Council of Commons is a good example. Was the influence nerf warranted? Absolutely (though it shouldn't matter at this stage how much influence the player gets, anyway - if anything, it helped testing what little of end-game content there was much faster... AARGH, ok, ok, I stop).

But we didn't get any other means of earning that influence beyond what was already there. And if people relied on CoC, it was precisely because the other reliable sources of it were either very circumstantial (finding and winning enough large-scale battles), or simply insufficient to deal with things like stacked -clan influence kingdom policies.

You shouldn't HAVE to minmax Charm just to participate in kingdom politics as a vassal. It should make it that much easier, but not a requirement - otherwise what's the point of the new skill learning mechanics that, supposedly, should allow you to play as you like?

The game needs expansion of current systems in most places to be enjoyable and truly open sandbox. The resulting player experience after the various nerfs merely highlight that need.

And this goes right back to the "balancing before expanded content" argument.

Balancing before expanded content argument is simply a nonsense. Balancing is not just about nerfing workshops or influencia gain, balancing is about finding the right difficulty to gain XP for players, companions and troops, dealing with snowballing, making Sturgia stronger, making Khuzait less OP...

It is really funny to read people talking about balancing before expanding content here, and then complaining about balancing in other threats.

 

[Nakh]

You feel that way about money because you have never needed money. Actually, money is a pretty important resources in the game but like It is extremely easy to get, people do not even noticed It.

In Warband, while It is still relatively easy to get money, you actually need to care about your finances, even when you have the same or even less ways to spend your money than in Bannerlord.

Nope, it's not. Even huge party of elite troops will ask for 2000 gold per day, one boring easy fight against weak lord will pay such party for a week. Until there is some meaningful ways to spend gold, money will never be significant resource.

 

[Sheepify]

Balancing before expanded content argument is simply a nonsense. Balancing is not just about nerfing workshops or influencia gain, balancing is about finding the right difficulty to gain XP for players, companions and troops, dealing with snowballing, making Sturgia stronger, making Khuzait less OP...

Explain to me how any of the above is an issue in EA version of the game.

These are prioritized because short-sighted people with "me, me, me" attitude require a "balanced" gameplay right now, ignoring the fact that the cost of it is less expanded content because the developers are constantly barraged with demands to make the game playable RIGHT NAO.

Completely ignoring the fact that additional content is bound to mess up any attempt at balancing now, anyway, making this a mostly wasted effort in the long run.

If we get any expansion on bandit implementation, that will have a big effect on caravan and village->town trades. If we get workshop development, it will impact both the raw resource economy as well as player's finances. If we get new bloody quests that deal with anything remotely connected to the economy (bandit infestation from Warband being an example), that will absolutely impact the economy's balance.

The whole point of "get game feature-complete (as much as possible), THEN worry about balance" is exactly to avoid unnecessary constant balance tweaks draining workhours from placeholder areas that desperately need improvement.

It is really funny to read people talking about balancing before expanding content here, and then complaining about balancing in other threats.

Until you find a post of mine where I demand everything else was dropped to balance something, I'd appreciate you refraining from making such strawman accusations, thank you very much.