Taleworlds needs to hold themselves accountable and admit that many key decisions regarding multiplayer have backfired.

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Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
I was hoping I could play sp while mp was finished up but I crash whenever I try to make a new character.
The icons etc are such a minor thing that can easily be fixed later on, and is absolutely no concern at the moment, I do hope they get fixed but no rush. We have to get used to the classes they wont change no matter what we say or do, but its important for taleworld to understand why we dont like it and why its a mistake. Feedback is always valuable.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I was hoping I could play sp while mp was finished up but I crash whenever I try to make a new character.
The icons etc are such a minor thing that can easily be fixed later on, and is absolutely no concern at the moment, I do hope they get fixed but no rush. We have to get used to the classes they wont change no matter what we say or do, but its important for taleworld to understand why we dont like it and why its a mistake. Feedback is always valuable.
This is very reasonable. I can't fault this analysis. All I ask is we do it with respect; the people at TW are human like us and should be treated as such.

Other then that yeah 100% agree. I'm not even a massive fan of the class system - I just personally think its behind a lot of other more important things I want worked on first.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
This is very reasonable. I can't fault this analysis. All I ask is we do it with respect; the people at TW are human like us and should be treated as such.

Other then that yeah 100% agree. I'm not even a massive fan of the class system - I just personally think its behind a lot of other more important things I want worked on first.
Agreed, I also hope TW realises that while some of the posts on the forum go too far, most of them are simply providing them with their opinion and feedback as to why theyre no longer playing, or why theyre not enjoying it. Sometimes more emotional than neccesary, but thats because the game means alot to them/us.
I've seen too many good games die because the developers are stubborn and I hope it doesnt happen here, it'd be a hell of a blow to an amazing franchise.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Agreed, I also hope TW realises that while some of the posts on the forum go too far, most of them are simply providing them with their opinion and feedback as to why theyre no longer playing, or why theyre not enjoying it. Sometimes more emotional than neccesary, but thats because the game means alot to them/us.
I've seen too many good games die because the developers are stubborn and I hope it doesnt happen here, it'd be a hell of a blow to an amazing franchise.

Thank you. That does make me a lot more comfortable with a lot of this discussion.

I truly am on the same side as you guys; largely I want the same changes... I have just worked in customer service (in various ways) for most of my adult life. I dont like the way some of us treat TW sometimes; or more exactly the real people who have to read these threads. However I understand that the intentions are good... I just wish we could badger the hell out of TW in a civil way.

Big ask on the internet I know but if we could do the same things we are now with just a drop or two more of good humour and a bit less throwing curses I'd be very very happy.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Thank you. That does make me a lot more comfortable with a lot of this discussion.

I truly am on the same side as you guys; largely I want the same changes... I have just worked in customer service (in various ways) for most of my adult life. I dont like the way some of us treat TW sometimes; or more exactly the real people who have to read these threads. However I understand that the intentions are good... I just wish we could badger the hell out of TW in a civil way.

Big ask on the internet I know but if we could do the same things we are now with just a drop or two more of good humour and a bit less throwing curses I'd be very very happy.
Where are you seeing curses thrown out en-masse towards taleworlds employees? Saying a feature of a product 'Sucks, don't like, hate, dumb, is stupid'; isn't cursing out taleworlds employees. I've yet to see people riot to have armagan publically flogged or any of the developers/designers. Working customer service is not the same as developing a product in the name of a company. Disparaging a product of a company is not making personal attacks towards the team that made it.

There is a difference between saying on a company's feedback;
'Hey this dish soap leaves smears and smudges on my plate and I think it sucks'.
And saying
'HEY YOU, CUSTOMER SERVICE EMPLOYEE, WHY DOES THIS DISH SOAP SUCK, SHAME ON YOU'.

I am seeing far far far more of the former rather than the latter (with the exception of one idiot saying the person who made classes should be fired). But I see plenty of apologists that are saying product feedback aimed towards getting the attention of decision makers is somehow a personal attack.
 
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AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Where are you seeing curses thrown out en-masse towards taleworlds employees? Saying a feature of a product 'Sucks, don't like, hate, dumb, is stupid'; isn't cursing out taleworlds employees. I've yet to see people riot to have armagan publically flogged or any of the developers/designers. Working customer service is not the same as developing a product in the name of a company. Disparaging a product of a company is not making personal attacks towards the team that made it.

There is a difference between saying on a company's feedback;
'Hey this dish soap leaves smears and smudges on my plate and I think it sucks'.
And saying
'HEY YOU, CHECK-OUT EMPLOYEE, WHY DOES THIS DISH SOAP SUCK, SHAME ON YOU'.

I am seeing far far far more of the former rather than the latter. But I see plenty of apologists that are saying product feedback aimed towards getting the attention of decision makers is somehow a personal attack.

This thread (until recently renamed) was literally demanding a TW employee be forcibly resigned. It was targeted and unnecessarily hostile (whether it was sarcastic or not) and that's what caused pages of arguments.
 

Jess_the_Hobozerk

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
This thread (until recently renamed) was literally demanding a TW employee be forcibly resigned. It was targeted and unnecessarily hostile (whether it was sarcastic or not) and that's what caused pages of arguments.
Actually made an edit to include him as the exception. You have 34 pages of threads with several pages of comments within them, mostly with constructive feedback/criticism and 1 thread with a dumb title made by some outlier. By the law of large numbers, there will be one or two anomalies from the norm, but you are making it sound as if the community as a whole is hell-bent on seeing TW burn down for their sin which just isn't accurate. You're actively cherry picking the few and far in-between cases of irrational outrage and claiming it as the norm, out of the sea of rational content.

That's not even including the thousands of comments in the old beta forums that also were well-mannered.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Actually made an edit to include him as the exception. You have 34 pages of threads with several pages of comments within them, mostly with constructive feedback/criticism and 1 thread with a dumb title made by some outlier. By the law of large numbers, there will be one or two anomalies from the norm, but you are making it sound as if the community as a whole is hell-bent on seeing TW burn down for their sin which just isn't accurate. You're actively cherry picking the few and far in-between cases of irrational outrage and claiming it as the norm, out of the sea of rational content.

That's not even including the thousands of comments in the old beta forums that also were well-mannered.

I know but this is the one I'm angry about!! :wink:

Jokes aside though - yes largely the community is fine and I acknowledge that but it is certainly a lot more hostile then it used to be and a lot more hostile then it should be.
 

rektasaurus

Squire
I am intrigued to know what framework you'd use to stop people from looking for a heavy horse as a rabble rather than helping their team and completing obejctives? This was the original question I am still awaiting answer on.

Missed this one I didn’t explicitly answer it. Concerning skirmish specifically and without major changes? No respawn, shorter rounds, and way more rounds. It is very nice to be able to respawn after dying in the same round, especially if you get randomed or gangbanged, but instead of a quick respawn you can just wait until next round. It would be a longer game with shorter rounds and would totally be a lot more fun. It still wouldn’t stop a troll from killing their teammate for their mount but would eliminate the ridiculous requirement to kill everyone at least twice in one round. I understand that many might feel that multiple lives per round is needed for skirmish but I think that would be a solid fix.
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
One-life Skirmish with persistent money would be better than live I think. You'd get 300 gold to spend over 2 rounds, or something like that.

Obviously an entirely new mode would be preferable, just thinking about current improvements to Skirmish.
 

MaRzz

Sergeant Knight
Remove Skirmish, its a budget TDM. Also remove class/gold system. It can only work once mods can actually balance the classes.
 

Zoonanay

Knight
Missed this one I didn’t explicitly answer it. Concerning skirmish specifically and without major changes? No respawn, shorter rounds, and way more rounds. It is very nice to be able to respawn after dying in the same round, especially if you get randomed or gangbanged, but instead of a quick respawn you can just wait until next round. It would be a longer game with shorter rounds and would totally be a lot more fun. It still wouldn’t stop a troll from killing their teammate for their mount but would eliminate the ridiculous requirement to kill everyone at least twice in one round. I understand that many might feel that multiple lives per round is needed for skirmish but I think that would be a solid fix.

Indeed, single life rounds make time a valueable commodity, and wasting it chasing a horse isn't something that's feasible against competent opponents. I remember a dev commenting on this, for the life of me I can't find the thread, but if I remember correctly they didn't want Skirmish as a single life gamemode because newer players end up with a lot of dead screen time that discourages them from playing the gamemode or staying in the match after early death.

Though I do agree, Skirmish would play better with single life, it makes teamwork easier as there aren't varying spawns later in the round that cause scattered gameplay. And generally when queueing Skirmish, you're looking for a more competitive gamemode where personal skill determines outcomes more often, these people tend to be okay with a dead screen or two, they're more interested in developing their own skill and witnessing the matches outcome instead of the constant gameplay and engagement that TDM or Siege provides.
 
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method man

Squire
In regards to my question I specifically said IF everything else was improved; I made this point very clear. I do not believe it is the games only flaw and have spoke often about what I want improved. My concern is you will never be happy no matter what happens so long as the class system is still present.
This is exactly the question I responded to. I literally said that if this was the only flaw in the game (which implies that everything else was improved), then I would continue to complain. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to grasp. To quote my review of BL on Steam: "I'm desperately searching for any other game that will satisfy my itch for this genre." I haven't, so as it stands, Mount & Blade is unique. I'm in love with the concept, and I naturally want this game to grow and succeed. Therefore, I will continue to complain about this issue, and you shouldn't find that surprising. Calling for crappy systems to be reworked is part and parcel of a game's community. You're acting like complaining about a feature that's killing the game's replay value is unusual. Before you start, I'm fully aware that Taleworlds is obstinate, but I'm trying to be optimistic and hope they'll see reason. Isn't this the same dev studio that was convinced block delay is fantastic?
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Indeed, single life rounds make time a valueable commodity, and wasting it chasing a horse isn't something that's feasible against competent opponents. I remember a dev commenting on this, for the life of me I can't find the thread, but if I remember correctly they didn't want Skirmish as a single life gamemode because newer players end up with a lot of dead screen time that discourages them from playing the gamemode or staying in the match after early death.

Though I do agree, Skirmish would play better with single life, it makes teamwork easier as there aren't varying spawns later in the round that cause scattered gameplay. And generally when queueing Skirmish, you're looking for a more competitive gamemode where personal skill determines outcomes more often, these people tend to be okay with a dead screen or two, they're more interested in developing their own skill and witnessing the matches outcome instead of the constant gameplay and engagement that TDM or Siege provides.

I think there is room in the game for skirmish and a battle-like. I actually think the game mode is fairly interesting conceptually and could be a staple going forwards if they get the balance right. I also really like captains mode - this was something that was also missing from the m&b formula - a game mode that actually plays like the SP. Course I still think my generals mode idea was better.... but that's a story for another time.

This is exactly the question I responded to. I literally said that if this was the only flaw in the game (which implies that everything else was improved), then I would continue to complain. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept to grasp. To quote my review of BL on Steam: "I'm desperately searching for any other game that will satisfy my itch for this genre." I haven't, so as it stands, Mount & Blade is unique. I'm in love with the concept, and I naturally want this game to grow and succeed. Therefore, I will continue to complain about this issue, and you shouldn't find that surprising. Calling for crappy systems to be reworked is part and parcel of a game's community. You're acting like complaining about a feature that's killing the game's replay value is unusual. Before you start, I'm fully aware that Taleworlds is obstinate, but I'm trying to be optimistic and hope they'll see reason. Isn't this the same dev studio that was convinced block delay is fantastic?


Okay then fair-do's canton. You took the time and I appreciate it. I honestly think you are plain-out of luck on this though; but if you want to keep fighting that cause then go ahead. That's your business. I'm not particularly for or against either bannerlord or warband classes so go ahead - I hope you see the changes you want but genuinely I don't think you will :???:
 

rektasaurus

Squire
I think there is room in the game for skirmish and a battle-like. I actually think the game mode is fairly interesting conceptually and could be a staple going forwards if they get the balance right. I also really like captains mode - this was something that was also missing from the m&b formula - a game mode that actually plays like the SP. Course I still think my generals mode idea was better.... but that's a story for another time.

Oh, I love captain mode. I lowkey dream about mp campaign somehow but know that it’s probably really difficult to implement it in a fun way and anyways to me the point of campaign is to get into the battle scene so my stoke level is pretty high on it and can’t wait for them to remove the city map from the rotation.

And something like skirmish is for sure necessary. I don’t know if the name “skirmish” conveys its potential. They’re doing a good job with the skirmish maps actually the lanes are well thought out and I was pretty surprised to see callouts being decided on here in the forums, it’s real cool.

What is a battle-like?
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Oh, I love captain mode. I lowkey dream about mp campaign somehow but know that it’s probably really difficult to implement it in a fun way and anyways to me the point of campaign is to get into the battle scene so my stoke level is pretty high on it and can’t wait for them to remove the city map from the rotation.

And something like skirmish is for sure necessary. I don’t know if the name “skirmish” conveys its potential. They’re doing a good job with the skirmish maps actually the lanes are well thought out and I was pretty surprised to see callouts being decided on here in the forums, it’s real cool.

What is a battle-like?

Oh yeah that city map needs to go. Which is a shame as visually it is stunning. Someone put a lot of time and effort into that map and aesthetically it is very impressive. But it makes no sense for the game mode.

Battle-like I was just playing off roguelike. As in a one life game mode - either a copy paste of battle from warband or more likely some sort of round system.
 

Shatti

Squire
WBWF&SNWVC
i personally decided to take a break from bannerlord
captain mod is the only good mod, the other mods requires competitive play and i can't do it
it's a throwing and cav fest (warband is like this, but the damage was balanced much better)
-2handed spears are vulnerable
-spears with shield suck at 1vs1
-can't have fun with weapons i don't like

for me:
it's a class system problem
and it's a spear design problem

solutions:

-2handed spears are vulnerable "menavlion"
-spears with shield suck at 1vs1
make the spears more versatile and give them the swing option when "unshielded"
they could only stop horses, they are very specific
let them use swings so i could duel someone then get back to my shield again
 
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