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Taleworlds needs to hold themselves accountable and admit that many key decisions regarding multiplayer have backfired.

Users who are viewing this thread

GEO_MihaWk.

Sergeant Knight
Eb has doxxed me after I beat him in a skirmish. He used a little known exploit associated with throwing weapons to steal my personal details, and now I get pizza called to my house hourly. Don't duel him man, he'll ruin your life.
Does he pay for the pizza?
 

rektasaurus

Squire
Lmaooo :grin::lol::grin: Pfft anyone can send me all the pizza they want as long as I don’t have to pay for it. The duel server is nifty. Starting cash is way low and no bows but it’s cool.
 
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Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Really? It was very common. The issue was mod designers couldn't really enforce outfits on player 'classes' in warband. Ergo lets say you played a zulu in anglo zulu war; nothing stopping you right clicking and taking off all the 'zulu' garb that made you look authentic and ending up as some naked blond white guy running around with spear and shield.

Full invasion and the lord of the rings mods had these issues because they combined various races under one flag. So in theory yes I could look like an authentic rohan warrior... but I could take those dwarf boots for +1 armour... and maybe that gondor helmet for +2... and those elven bracers give another +1.. and suddenly I look like I just flew threw a washing line...
In Full Invasion we prevent this by giving classes only access to equipment that suits their backgrounds. A Rohan Rider only gets Rohan armour and Rohan weapons. They can pick up an Elven bow, sure, but that doesn't change too much.
Mixing and matching armour from all backgrounds is only an issue in singleplayer, due to the fact that it doesn't restrict what armour you have access to.
 

Shemaforash

Marquis
WB
I don't think that 300 or so cultists playing the game's MP make it sucessfull, even if they do it for 10 years or more. Admit it Younes, we're hipsters.

I don't respond to you usually but putting misguided statistics here doesn't help anyone, ayy thought you were gonna hit me up for that 1v1 ages ago when u challenged me u never added me buddy bud





just leaving this here

CHADBAND

9cdd26e11e17d4db42271f7ebedcc492.png


VERSUS

ALPHA/BETA

082305088c1fb32207a44fea0ec2a04f.png


EARLY ACCESS

2708ba5029e0352f24f5e2511c43a7be.png
 

Tork789

Knight at Arms
WBNWWF&SM&BVC
I don't respond to you usually but putting misguided statistics here doesn't help anyone, ayy thought you were gonna hit me up for that 1v1 ages ago when u challenged me u never added me buddy bud





just leaving this here

CHADBAND

9cdd26e11e17d4db42271f7ebedcc492.png


VERSUS

ALPHA/BETA

082305088c1fb32207a44fea0ec2a04f.png


EARLY ACCESS

2708ba5029e0352f24f5e2511c43a7be.png
So you're telling me that when I left my steamprofile and invited you to add me, you somehow got the impression that I gotta search for you without knowing your steam id instead? What bs is that? Also I'm not sure what your playtime is supposed to tell me apart from that you personally didn't play BL as much as WB, there's nothing else to conclude from that.

I don't respond to you usually
Keep doing that, even reading your responds is a waste of time anyways, so it's a win-win for both of us.
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
So you're telling me that when I left my steamprofile and invited you to add me, you somehow got the impression that I gotta search for you without knowing your steam id instead? What bs is that? Also I'm not sure what your playtime is supposed to tell me apart from that you personally didn't play BL as much as WB, there's nothing else to conclude from that.


Keep doing that, even reading your responds is a waste of time anyways, so it's a win-win for both of us.
I think hes trying to tell you that warband is an objectively better game.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Before the conversation turns into anti tork again:
Choosing optimal equipment wasn't really fun in Warband. It was more just that you could have the **** stick or the better stick, or maybe another different stick that was longer. I don't think it really felt like it mattered at all, while the new system in place forces you to make descisions that change the classes playstyle as opposed to just being a choice of an upgrade. Yeah I didn't like it at first, but frankly it just made me realise that Warband's system was needless and anyways you always just had that one stupid looking guy running naked with a two-handed sword.
Even if it didnt matter to you, it clearly matters to alot of people, and it definitly does matter. Lets take the stick argument. Sarranids could take a bamboo stick for free, or buy the normal spear. The bamboo stick is technically better against cav as its longer, but on closed maps you might not want a longer spear, you'd prefer a shorter one to more easily stab into melee.The spear costs 85gold while the bamboo is free, so for example with my regular sarranid build, with shield drops and javelins, I couldnt do that drop on round 1 as it would overcap me by 2 gold. Id either have to use the bamboo spear or pick a different helmet or lower shield. I have several builds depending on our current team setup, their team setup, their players, their factions and the map. Thats what makes it fun. Theres tons of choices you can do in Warband that you cant really do in Bannerlord.
The class system also doesnt give me anything to work for. Oh wow I just killed 11 people this round and the guy drooling in the corner afk will get exactly the same benefit as me. Grrrrreat.

On the topic of varyag #3 with a fishbanner, although some parts of the ui look really good, we shouldn’t see what the enemy is bringing until we find out on our own. Now we can see exactly how many cav or ranged units they have as soon as spawning. This is yet another huge missed opportunity. Details like this lead me to believe TaleWorlds has a lack of experience concerning game design for competitive or casual mp.

But I agree completely that getting rid of the classes ASAP seems like an easy fix and it’s the best fix. The artwork is excellent. Production quality is rough but almost excellent. It would be so easy to design a balanced system for equipment.
I dont really think the UI looks very good actually. Look at the difference between the cavalry classes. The heavier horses have a slight mane while the others dont, thats a tiny tiny difference. Infantry is about the same, the cheapest inf get a spear, the heavy infantry get....a slightly different spear. I think it should get an overhaul including the kill feed to make it look more clear. If Im an infantry and pick up a bow, it'll say an infantry killed someone. I mean...technically yes thats true, but showing the weapon is arguably more important than what class I was playing.
I dont really mind seing the classes the enemy has, it would be nice to have to scout it out and potentially mark them with E or something, battlefield style and then have the game display their classes in the top corner. Could just have a ? until theyre marked, but im not that bothered. Im more bothered that its kinda buggy and not really accurate. If you kill someone they revert back to the cheapest infantry choice, and before the round begins its just all infantry. I'd like the ? to be displayed if theyre dead or the round hasnt spawned to make it abit more clear. (Minor polish but still)
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I didn't say that the class system is make or break. However, it is an important issue for many members of the community, and we'd rather it changed. Your consistently uncharitable readings of others don't make you clever, they make you insufferable to talk to. First you accuse Eb of being bloodthirsty when he asks for accountability, now this. If you want people to take you seriously, don't deliberately misunderstand them then strut around like you won an argument. While we're at it: if this was the game's only flaw, I don't see why we'd ignore it because everything else is good. Your argument that "people will keep pointing out flaws (even if there's only one) because they want to complain" is the same as saying "people will keep complaining about food with hairs (even if there's only one) in it because they want to complain."

Canton - last time I am going to respond to you if you keep insulting me. Next time I just report you and move on. If you want to talk to me - talk to me. Resorting to petty name calling is childish at best.

I don't want to be your enemy Canton - we can surely debate this without throwing shade at one another?

Now regarding what you actually said...

The method through which Eb asked for accountability was crass and 'bloodthirsty' to use your term. If he had made the same thread with the title it has right now I would have supported it - I actually agree with his point regarding item restrictions. His manner however was totally unacceptable.

In regards to my question I specifically said IF everything else was improved; I made this point very clear. I do not believe it is the games only flaw and have spoke often about what I want improved. My concern is you will never be happy no matter what happens so long as the class system is still present. Now I can predict with 95% certainty that the class system is not going anywhere (we have had a lot of clues for such but It's never certain); so much more likely then not you will never be happy with this game regardless of whether everything else was improved 100x fold.

With that in mind - I don't understand what your hopes are for this project. You will never like it with the class system - and that is more then likely not going anywhere. Surely speaking about anything else ever is a moot point? Why talk about combat changes or (regarding this thread) item restrictions if the class system is there? Even if TW changed both these things tomorrow you would still hate the game just as much.

I just don't see the point; and I don't understand your agenda. Do you genuinely believe that TW will change the class system back to warband?

Your argument that "people will keep pointing out flaws (even if there's only one) because they want to complain" is the same as saying "people will keep complaining about food with hairs (even if there's only one) in it because they want to complain."

This is actually an excellent example. Lets run with it. So Bannerlord is the food and it is always going to have hair in; the chef has made it very clear he won't be remaking it without. In fact he has argued bitterly with you that the food needs it. So in this situation what would any reasonable person do?

Walk out and find another restaurant.

However you don't do this; you sit there for the next year demanding your food is remade. While you are at it you point out that it is too salty, and that the steak is underdone (none of this matters because you weren't going to eat it anyway). My question is why? Why even talk about some other tiny feature of the food when its full of hair so (quite rightly) you won't be eating it? Why does anything else matter in fact? And why do you not find somewhere else which serves you a dish without said hairs...?

Now bare in mind that I actually dont care for the class system massively. However I acknowledge it's not going to change and can see a future for the project anyway. I would still enjoy this game with it (if everything else was improved). That's my angle. So I try to talk about the changes the game needs; combat, servers, crashes, game modes etc etc. After I get all that I could live with 'the hair' as you put it.

Now what is your angle exactly...? The only thing I can assume you are trying to do is force TW to change the class system back... but we are both pretty damn certain that's never gonna happen... so I don't understand what you want to achieve?
 
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rektasaurus

Squire
Before the conversation turns into anti tork again:

Even if it didnt matter to you, it clearly matters to alot of people, and it definitly does matter. Lets take the stick argument. Sarranids could take a bamboo stick for free, or buy the normal spear. The bamboo stick is technically better against cav as its longer, but on closed maps you might not want a longer spear, you'd prefer a shorter one to more easily stab into melee.The spear costs 85gold while the bamboo is free, so for example with my regular sarranid build, with shield drops and javelins, I couldnt do that drop on round 1 as it would overcap me by 2 gold. Id either have to use the bamboo spear or pick a different helmet or lower shield. I have several builds depending on our current team setup, their team setup, their players, their factions and the map. Thats what makes it fun. Theres tons of choices you can do in Warband that you cant really do in Bannerlord.
The class system also doesnt give me anything to work for. Oh wow I just killed 11 people this round and the guy drooling in the corner afk will get exactly the same benefit as me. Grrrrreat.


I dont really think the UI looks very good actually. Look at the difference between the cavalry classes. The heavier horses have a slight mane while the others dont, thats a tiny tiny difference. Infantry is about the same, the cheapest inf get a spear, the heavy infantry get....a slightly different spear. I think it should get an overhaul including the kill feed to make it look more clear. If Im an infantry and pick up a bow, it'll say an infantry killed someone. I mean...technically yes thats true, but showing the weapon is arguably more important than what class I was playing.
I dont really mind seing the classes the enemy has, it would be nice to have to scout it out and potentially mark them with E or something, battlefield style and then have the game display their classes in the top corner. Could just have a ? until theyre marked, but im not that bothered. Im more bothered that its kinda buggy and not really accurate. If you kill someone they revert back to the cheapest infantry choice, and before the round begins its just all infantry. I'd like the ? to be displayed if theyre dead or the round hasnt spawned to make it abit more clear. (Minor polish but still)

Yeah the iconography is a little unintuitive but the quality of the artwork is still AAA. Oh the kill feed. It goes by so fast and is so tiny and hard to read. I don’t get at all why it’s different than the way sp’s killfeed looks. So many little things that doesn’t make sense at all, like someone spent time to change what sp had into the poor mp version I don’t get it at all.

You know thinking about it, the classes could probably grow on me if they made only a few changes but I am just so beyond salty at how much worse off mp feels than sp. I was hoping to play mp while sp was finished up but it seems like by the time they fix anything I’ll have really learned their weird unit balance. It takes a lot of work to love it.
 
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