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Taleworlds needs to hold themselves accountable and admit that many key decisions regarding multiplayer have backfired.

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Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
This is....stupid....so humans get less riding skills but our sturgian warriors get 150 polearm? Not sure why we're the heroes it seems like the bot rebellion would win.
Yeah, as soon as the patch comes out i might just make a thread about it and have all the skills visualized a bit better
 

Zoonanay

Knight
Maybe they read the forums and think that people who play this game are legitimately stupid. The fact you're even complaining about that. I've made it my absolute mission to play only rabble. rabble rabble. Come join me then let's see what your complaints about "infantry fighting" and the "class system" will be.

A skilled player > you for sure. If a peasant, the cheapest, worst armored class, can demount an armored knight, that peasant deserves that horse. Full stop.

The fact that you can think otherwise as being "good" for balance is so beyond me. Do you play mp or just theorycraft?

A way around the dynamic is to take the class system out. So that it's balanced. Never have a felt the need to call someone a noob so strongly as now lol. With the most kindness.

Also, to a comment earlier, the disadvantage of cav is that they're loud. You can't get behind anyone without them noticing unless you're playing captain and are in a big fight. They're cumbersome, they turn SUPER slow compared to foot. In tight spaces it's a real challenge to keep up with foot. It's easy to get dehorsed, even by archers. There was some dude earlier complaining that people didn't stay down long enough after getting knocked off their horse. Clearly this dude has never been knocked off a horse in melee before. In a way I can understand why tw might be hesitant to take advice from forum posters.

It is unfortunate you've wasted several sentences of this post with ridicule and insults, I recommend in the future you're more diligent with your word choices and decide inflammatory behaviour is not an effective way to communicate with another human being. Otherwise, I feel this conversation has come to its inevitable conclusion.

Regardless, you're once again assuming that the peasant killed the knight. I've previously stated how this will not be the case in most scenarios, I am reluctant to reformat this information again so will simply re-quote.

For the cost of 90 a rabble can pick up a Lance, find a heavy horse, and effectively become a lightly body armoured Lancer for almost half the cost. I don't see this as balanced, especially if the individual may have had no part in getting these items other than clicking F on the ground. I am intrigued if you know of a system that could allow for this, or a reason why this design may work?

I am intrigued to know what framework you'd use to stop people from looking for a heavy horse as a rabble rather than helping their team and completing obejctives? This was the original question I am still awaiting answer on.

I don't believe anyone had issues with the duration of time the cavalry is knocked down for, more that infantry knockdowns are too long lasting and that cavalry are able to defend themselves whilst knocked down. These are the problems with knockdowns.

Cavalry audio cues are rather poor, for one they have no verticality to them which on maps like Desert Outpost on Skirmish is a massive problem. The distance activation on cavalry hooves is inconsitent, due to the running animation having all four horse legs in the air for a durated period of time, meaning cues onset inconsistently at differing distances, sometimes not cueing all together.

I would like to state again. No-one disagrees with you. The class system is not a good system. It should be taken out. We all agree on that, well most of us. But TW are keeping it, and they're not getting rid of it. So we either work within the bounds of the class system, otherwise you'd have a better shot waiting until release and discussing this with the modders rather than devs.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Yeah, as soon as the patch comes out i might just make a thread about it and have all the skills visualized a bit better
I agree with the player class comment but not the bots. Bots work differently to humans and dont react in the same ways ,their A.I needs to be effective; bot classes should be different to player classes to make sure they can be changed independently for captains mode etc. 100 just might not be enough to make the bots capable of using their horses effectively.

Other then that; 100% onboard would be very useful.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
I agree with the player class comment but not the bots. Bots work differently to humans and dont react in the same ways ,their A.I needs to be effective; bot classes should be different to player classes to make sure they can be changed independently for captains mode etc. 100 just might not be enough to make the bots capable of using their horses effectively.

Other then that; 100% onboard would be very useful.
If I die in captains mode and take over a bot, do I use his stats or mine? Should I just run in and die if I play cav to get better stats?

EDIT: Feels like we're drifting off topic here....
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
no. 1v1 me scrub. wait no we can't cause no private servers. also you might cry if i take your horse after i kill you.

There is in fact a private duel server. Not knowing about this proves that you have no authority to even be in this conversation. Not to mention I am extremely confident if we dueled you would end up backwards in a trashcan made of your own failure.

Most of what you want for multiplayer is already there and actively destroying the game. You need to realize that.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I would like to state again. No-one disagrees with you. The class system is not a good system. It should be taken out. We all agree on that, well most of us. But TW are keeping it, and they're not getting rid of it. So we either work within the bounds of the class system, otherwise you'd have a better shot waiting until release and discussing this with the modders rather than devs.

I dont hate the class system like many others. I can certainly see some advantages to it for MP mods. Like finally the lotr mod might look like lord of the rings; not some twisted cosplay where every character has elf heads, orc legs and naked skinny arms.

Still it needs work; and as you say. It's not going anywhere. I wish we could look into the future and see how the class system will look in 2 years time. In 5 years time; and compare that. As it stands it looks like we are moving towards a medium position that might please everyone or no one. I imagine every class will have so many perks and options that it might aswell be the warband system again - but we will see.

Either way 1.5 will be interesting.

If I die in captains mode and take over a bot, do I use his stats or mine? Should I just run in and die if I play cav to get better stats?

EDIT: Feels like we're drifting off topic here....

I dont have a good answer to that and yes agreed. This is not the time to go into it. One thing at a time.
 

Mardochaios

Recruit
Honestly if the community was more than two percent like the people who make these kinds of threads, I'd give the community the finger and just carry on with what I was doing. These sort of threads aren't even constructive, just thinly veiled ****-flingathons. Some people have good points to make but it's kind of ****e that it's feeding the flame-baiting threads like these.

Ain't this stuff meant to be in the report feedback/suggestions section of the forum anyways, or do the typewriter chimps that make these threads not know how to read either?
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
I dont hate the class system like many others. I can certainly see some advantages to it for MP mods. Like finally the lotr mod might look like lord of the rings; not some twisted cosplay where every character has elf heads, orc legs and naked skinny arms.
What mod is this? Any mod designed with the slightest amount of braincells will never have this issue.
 

EbdanianAdmiral

Knight at Arms
Honestly if the community was more than two percent like the people who make these kinds of threads, I'd give the community the finger and just carry on with what I was doing. These sort of threads aren't even constructive, just thinly veiled ****-flingathons. Some people have good points to make but it's kind of ****e that it's feeding the flame-baiting threads like these.

Ain't this stuff meant to be in the report feedback/suggestions section of the forum anyways, or do the typewriter chimps that make these threads not know how to read either?

You are currently flaming way more than anyone in this thread. Please leave
 

Mardochaios

Recruit
You are currently flaming way more than anyone in this thread. Please leave
592fb3596ae68c60d3daceb976112231c9e73280.gifv
 

CdJrcxx

Sergeant at Arms
NW
Also I meant in the in game chat you can’t type in “<“. Not the forum chat. It’s just like, was it that much more work to escape out the brackets instead of blocking the whole thing out? Makes it impossible to send a “<3” through chat in game. Is this a known issue? What a metaphor for the state of mp actually...

You couldn't in warband either, I *think* something with Turkish characters doesn't correspond with that. Don't take my word as definite truth but It's not poor state of the game pretty sure its just a language thing.
 

Zoonanay

Knight
I dont hate the class system like many others. I can certainly see some advantages to it for MP mods. Like finally the lotr mod might look like lord of the rings; not some twisted cosplay where every character has elf heads, orc legs and naked skinny arms.

Still it needs work; and as you say. It's not going anywhere. I wish we could look into the future and see how the class system will look in 2 years time. In 5 years time; and compare that. As it stands it looks like we are moving towards a medium position that might please everyone or no one. I imagine every class will have so many perks and options that it might aswell be the warband system again - but we will see.

Either way 1.5 will be interesting.

Personally I found the horiffic abominations in lotr mod to be disturbingly amusing, but I can definatley see your point.

There are places where class based systems can work, NW worked because the difference between bayonet classes was negligible, and all other classes were highly specialised into a specific role. In Bannerlord, I don't think the same can be said, cavalry and archers aren't really specialised into a role more a different style of playing and the differences between infantry units can be massive.

If TW is fully commited to the idea, I could see a middle-ground given enough perks and customisation. The problem I see is the balancing involved requires a rigorous knowledge of not only game development but also competitive gaming, without this you'll miss how mechanics play with meta and style and release poorly considered designs which take hundreds of man hours to fully perfect.

So far, all hope hasn't been lost, but it's hardly a parade. I don't feel very confident in TW's capacity to balance these perks based on previous track record, but I hope to be proved wrong.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
What mod is this? Any mod designed with the slightest amount of braincells will never have this issue.

Personally I found the horiffic abominations in lotr mod to be disturbingly amusing, but I can definatley see your point.

There are places where class based systems can work, NW worked because the difference between bayonet classes was negligible, and all other classes were highly specialised into a specific role. In Bannerlord, I don't think the same can be said, cavalry and archers aren't really specialised into a role more a different style of playing and the differences between infantry units can be massive.

If TW is fully commited to the idea, I could see a middle-ground given enough perks and customisation. The problem I see is the balancing involved requires a rigorous knowledge of not only game development but also competitive gaming, without this you'll miss how mechanics play with meta and style and release poorly considered designs which take hundreds of man hours to fully perfect.

So far, all hope hasn't been lost, but it's hardly a parade. I don't feel very confident in TW's capacity to balance these perks based on previous track record, but I hope to be proved wrong.


Really? It was very common. The issue was mod designers couldn't really enforce outfits on player 'classes' in warband. Ergo lets say you played a zulu in anglo zulu war; nothing stopping you right clicking and taking off all the 'zulu' garb that made you look authentic and ending up as some naked blond white guy running around with spear and shield.

Full invasion and the lord of the rings mods had these issues because they combined various races under one flag. So in theory yes I could look like an authentic rohan warrior... but I could take those dwarf boots for +1 armour... and maybe that gondor helmet for +2... and those elven bracers give another +1.. and suddenly I look like I just flew threw a washing line...

I mean yeah I know it's mostly a cosmetic thing... and it's mostly for the benefit of Mods... Just in my minds eye I see two years down the time playing the Kingdom of Arda mod and being presented with a dozen factions each with a dozen authentic classes from each race... and it will be amazing..and when I jump into battle I will finally be a Gondor soldier amongst 200 other shiny silver soldiers trying to hold the outer walls of minas tirith

That's what makes me hold a token for the class system.

As for the balance... well let's see what happens. They are playing very coy with their new changes... you never know we might be in for a surprise. Let's hope for the best rather than assuming it's the worst :grin:
 

KSHMR

Sergeant at Arms
If you run in and die in captain mode your bots go in full charge right? If that is the case, then no, not very smart :grin:
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
If you run in and die in captain mode your bots go in full charge right? If that is the case, then no, not very smart :grin:
No you take over as a bot and carry on. I don't know how the skills transfer. Have you tried captains mode? It will never be *the* mode for M&B but it is certainly a lot of fun! Not balanced by any margin just yet but they have acknowledged the issues it has and apparently they are working on them.

Again - 2-3 years down the line. Rome mod. 6 vs 6 captains, Romans Vs Gauls... gonna be amazing!! :grin:
 

Younes

Master Knight
WBWF&SNWVC
Really? It was very common. The issue was mod designers couldn't really enforce outfits on player 'classes' in warband. Ergo lets say you played a zulu in anglo zulu war; nothing stopping you right clicking and taking off all the 'zulu' garb that made you look authentic and ending up as some naked blond white guy running around with spear and shield.

Full invasion and the lord of the rings mods had these issues because they combined various races under one flag. So in theory yes I could look like an authentic rohan warrior... but I could take those dwarf boots for +1 armour... and maybe that gondor helmet for +2... and those elven bracers give another +1.. and suddenly I look like I just flew threw a washing line...

I mean yeah I know it's mostly a cosmetic thing... and it's mostly for the benefit of Mods... Just in my minds eye I see two years down the time playing the Kingdom of Arda mod and being presented with a dozen factions each with a dozen authentic classes from each race... and it will be amazing..and when I jump into battle I will finally be a Gondor soldier amongst 200 other shiny silver soldiers trying to hold the outer walls of minas tirith

That's what makes me hold a token for the class system.

As for the balance... well let's see what happens. They are playing very coy with their new changes... you never know we might be in for a surprise. Let's hope for the best rather than assuming it's the worst :grin:
I'm active on the full invasion module. This is not an issue. You could even ask @Maroon if you wanted.
 

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
I'm active on the full invasion module. This is not an issue. You could even ask @Maroon if you wanted.
No Younes I trust your word. Fair enough; I haven't touched it for a longtime so maybe they found a way round it - however I think you see my point at least in general I hope. Warband didn't allow enforcement of cosmetics whereas bannerlord can - and to me that's a bonus (though I'll admit I never include it in arguments as most people won't care).

@AxiosXiphos

I never tried captain mode. I don't really like it when bots fight for me, I prefer to take matters into my own hands (entirely so).

It's not just bots though; you can still perform above and beyond personally and this skill will certainly be important for close games. Try it sometime; it's the closest thing to actually making SP & MP consistent - because Warband MP was a very different game to Warband SP. I loved them both dearly but I had to be in different moods to play one or the other. They might as well have been different games.
 
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