Taleworlds needs to hold themselves accountable and admit that many key decisions regarding multiplayer have backfired.

[Younes]

A skilled player > you for sure. If a peasant, the cheapest, worst armored class, can demount an armored knight, that peasant deserves that horse. Full stop.

This will result in better players taking peasant (cheap class), having significant more lives and meaning snowballing will be more an issue then ever.

But no one will actually pick peasant because its a troll class and we have to make meaning choices am i rite

 

[chemical_art]

clickbait / hyperlobe two edge sword. Will feature far, far more noise / chaff / non discussion. Also has a habit to drive discussion of all forms forward so sometimes is what it takes to get actual discussion going.


It is very odd, never have followed any of this MP stuff before this thread.

But the ups and down in this very thread has me give sincere best wishes Bannerlord one day at the very least gives the tools so you can continue that which you all do.

 

[rektasaurus]

This will result in better players taking peasant (cheap class), having significant more lives and meaning snowballing will be more an issue then ever.

But no one will actually pick peasant because its a troll class and we have to make meaning choices am i rite

All peasant 3 - 0 shut out would be pretty dominant. Could you imagine?

The mp eco is for sure weird. Getting more lives for playing weaker units or choosing to save is a sort of cool idea but in practice it’s really not that great to deal with.

No respawn and more rounds would be so much more amazing.

 

[Younes]

All peasant 3 - 0 shut out would be pretty dominant. Could you imagine?

The mp eco is for sure weird. Getting more lives for playing weaker units or choosing to save is a sort of cool idea but in practice it’s really not that great to deal with.

No respawn and more rounds would be so much more amazing.

I've noticed that having 1-2 peasants in the team and having them pickup weapons dropped from either enemies or allies works very well. Peasant class perks are just irrelevant and will be dropped as soon as a better weapon is found.

But TW decided to reduce the time it takes for stuff to despawn which makes me wonder if this is the reason why.

 

[rektasaurus]

I've noticed that having 1-2 peasants in the team and having them pickup weapons dropped from either enemies or allies works very well. Peasant class perks are just irrelevant and will be dropped as soon as a better weapon is found.

But TW decided to reduce the time it takes for stuff to despawn which makes me wonder if this is the reason why.

Huh weird. I hope it’s for performance.

I just read this. It was from 11 months ago.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

Wow it sounds awful. I’d like to have a little fun with it since it seems I’m a little late to the party.

“Individual classes will be slightly customizable via a system of perks, and will reflect their factions not just cosmetically, but also in terms of the equipment they use and the actual jobs they perform. As a result, the strengths and weaknesses of each faction will be seen in their individual classes, which will influence the strategies and tactics they're best equipped to use—and which are best used against them.”

Right. As if I can’t tell with my eyeballs that someone is using a bow and I need a frickin detailed useless preset class loadout to help inform me how to best deal with them... that twohander that wildling is swinging? I needed cool sounding names from sp to let me know that for sure it’s got a twohander and not anything else.

‘"Overall, we think these changes to the multiplayer class system will make for a fairer, more accessible multiplayer experience that promotes teamwork and communication, and centers the gameplay on the skill-based directional combat system that is at the very core of Mount & Blade games," Taleworlds said. "It ensures that, at a glance, you can see exactly who your opponent is, and what their abilities and limitations are while eliminating the possibility of obscure meta builds from becoming prominent and ensuring that the game remains somewhat balanced."’

Thanks for the 7 x 6 = 42 friggin obscure meta builds that became prominent TaleWorlds. Wtf? So you picked them and not us, that’s what makes them better? What is a brainstorm meeting like there? Really going to double down on this and try to balance this garbage? This isn’t an ego thing is it? Does TaleWorlds feel like it needs to fight its community?

I can’t even type a “<3” in chat, forget voip. What communication?

Full nerdrage mode engaged. Seriously what is this? Is this a joke?

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Whoa. Look at this guys. We are actually debating the game mechanics again.

Still regarding the topic. This doesn't seem like a difficult situation to resolve. Add stat limitations to equipment/horses and play with class skills. Contrary to popular belief TW are willing to do this; they previously nerf batted all infantry, foot archer and melee cav classes horse archery stat (but perhaps not enough).

I'm sure we will see changes along these lines. I wouldn't be worrying too much about balancing concerns though right now personally. Let's get core combat right then worry about the nitty gritty stuff. I'm hopeful for v1.5. Let's see what comes.

Alot of people seem to want this game to be competitive ready right now and that's just not sensible. Lots of changes are still to come and yes we should see changes where absolutely game breaking issues are in place... but I don't think weapon swapping is a huge concern right now. Indeed I feel if you are gimping one player to help another then theres an issue with your clans skill disparity. Sounds like some players are under performing and some are over performing.

 

[Charlini]

Tork is 'known' for being on the clan KURWA's roster but contributed nothing to that team, so it's expected that he's angry at the Warband community because his peers carried him through numerous tournaments. In some cases I respect Tork's opinion, but he usually goes on a tangent when someone disagrees with him and makes statements that even he thinks aren't true, but throws them out to get a reaction.



This is pretty much my opinion of it, they're fixing issues on features that were firstly not wanted in the first place and are also broken to the core, it seems like these stat changes are just stacked temporary fixes that would eventually just cause issues elsewhere and it'll just be a vicious circle of stat changes (which is exactly how it has been already).

Think he's more known for his time IN and vs Swadia's clan/team. Don't think you should provoke in this way considering your current role in the forum. Comments like that in the past regarding your role in Freelancers resulted in pointless forum arguments that involved tons of barking and I guess non-direct insults or disrespectful enough to be punished statements. I didn't even read what he said this time, but everyone's free to have an opinion I guess, wouldn't be the first reaction-baiter in case you were right.

 

[KSHMR]

Why would you argue that TaleWorlds don't hold themselves accountable? In case you wondered this is a company that takes decision based on what they believe is right. If you don't like the decisions that they are making then frankly you should play another game. Furthermore, its still in EA so a lot of the content will inevitably change, the change is simply when.

To me it seems that they are entirely holding themselves accountable.

 

[rektasaurus]

Whoa. Look at this guys. We are actually debating the game mechanics again.

Still regarding the topic. This doesn't seem like a difficult situation to resolve. Add stat limitations to equipment/horses and play with class skills. Contrary to popular belief TW are willing to do this; they previously nerf batted all infantry, foot archer and melee cav classes horse archery stat (but perhaps not enough).

I'm sure we will see changes along these lines. I wouldn't be worrying too much about balancing concerns though right now personally. Let's get core combat right then worry about the nitty gritty stuff. I'm hopeful for v1.5. Let's see what comes.

Alot of people seem to want this game to be competitive ready right now and that's just not sensible. Lots of changes are still to come and yes we should see changes where absolutely game breaking issues are in place... but I don't think weapon swapping is a huge concern right now. Indeed I feel if you are gimping one player to help another then theres an issue with your clans skill disparity. Sounds like some players are under performing and some are over performing.

You troll you're actually hoping for nerfs? Stat limitations in mp would be so dumb, esp if they're not done adjusting fighting...

 

[AxiosXiphos]

You troll you're actually hoping for nerfs? Stat limitations in mp would be so dumb, esp if they're not done adjusting fighting...

By nerfs I mean making some classes worse at certain aspects of the game compared to their comparative. So making heavy infantry worse at shooting bows from horseback- nerf their horse archery and bow skills. For example.

Now personally I don't think it's a massive concern either way - like theres so much more that needs to be worked on first before you even consider a balance pass. So yeah we agree on that.

However I lean towards a slightly tighter skill restriction yes. Archers should have the best archery skills. Infantry the best melee skills. But we will see. Sounds like we are due a shakeup in 1.5 anyway so let's see where that goes then debate it after?

 

[Younes]

For anyone wondering also why throwing weapons are overpowered: ALL throwing skills for ALL characters are set to 100. Yes this includes the skirmish unit which is supposed to be better at this but is completely the same as others.

 

[rektasaurus]

By nerfs I mean making some classes worse at certain aspects of the game compared to their comparative. So making heavy infantry worse at shooting bows from horseback- nerf their horse archery and bow skills. For example.

Now personally I don't think it's a massive concern either way - like theres so much more that needs to be worked on first before you even consider a balance pass. So yeah we agree on that.

However I lean towards a slightly tighter skill restriction yes. Archers should have the best archery skills. Infantry the best melee skills. But we will see. Sounds like we are due a shakeup in 1.5 anyway so let's see where that goes then debate it after?

Fair.

For anyone wondering also why throwing weapons are overpowered: ALL throwing skills for ALL characters are set to 100. Yes this includes the skirmish unit which is supposed to be better at this but is completely the same as others.

Are all skills identical for all classes atm? Also doesn't make sense that point blank it can 1 hit kill you with a head shot but for some reason a sword or spear can't. Not calling for a nerf on point blank missile damage!

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Fair.



Are all skills identical for all classes atm? Also doesn't make sense that point blank it can 1 hit kill you with a head shot but for some reason a sword or spear can't. Not calling for a nerf on point blank missile damage!

No; classes have skills all over the place right now. Here's a odd but slightly cool thing - Khuzait troops all have higher riding & horse archery skills then any other cultures comparative. So Khan's guard are much better horse archers then say a Vlandian Sharpshooter; despite neither having default access to a horse. However clearly there needs to be some additional changes. For warband I used to use a modding tool to take a look at class skills.

Like I'm not sure how many people realise this but warband "classes" were not equal. A MP nord huscarl had higher stats then a MP veagir spearmen - very weird... but presumably to balance their weapon damages and armour values out.

Also this is one I find fun but probably no one else does. In Napoleonic Wars the Scottish Captain had 500 two-hander skill (compared to around 90-120 for any other weapon for anyone else); however all the two handed weapons in that game were classed as 'polearms' so it never came up. Just a weird easter egg - presumably a braveheart thing.

 

[Younes]

Are all skills identical for all classes atm? Also doesn't make sense that point blank it can 1 hit kill you with a head shot but for some reason a sword or spear can't. Not calling for a nerf on point blank missile damage!

Not all skills are the same, but just to tell you a few examples:

One handed skills are all the same across the board, no difference between infantry and archer in one handed skills (even though infantry is supposed to be better)

Two handed skills are all the same across the board, even though classes like savage are very obviously a lot more specialized in that kind of weapon

So much for meaningful choices lads.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Not all skills are the same, but just to tell you a few examples:

One handed skills are all the same across the board, no difference between infantry and archer in one handed skills (even though infantry is supposed to be better)

Two handed skills are all the same across the board, even though classes like savage are very obviously a lot more specialized in that kind of weapon

So much for meaningful choices lads.

I might see if I can take a look at them all again. It's not as easy without Morphs Mod Tool

 

[Younes]

No; classes have skills all over the place right now. Here's a odd but slightly cool thing - Khuzait troops all have higher riding & horse archery skills then any other cultures comparative.

Vlandian light cavalry = 200 riding
Vlandian heavy cavalry = 200 riding
Khuzait light cavalry = 200 riding
Khuzait heavy cavalry = 200 riding

If you mean infantry units then yes. Khuzait have higher riding stats. But where exactly is the sense in that? You're supposed to make meaningful choices and stick to your class, this is how TW presented it in this argument.

• Giving each class a predetermined purpose. To enable players to work on building effective teams, adapting tactics depending on the situation.

 

[Younes]

To add to this, there doesn't seem to be any skill related to horse archery. Which means i suppose that "Bow" skills is the same as horse archery which is completely stupid.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

Vlandian light cavalry = 200 riding
Vlandian heavy cavalry = 200 riding
Khuzait light cavalry = 200 riding
Khuzait heavy cavalry = 200 riding

If you mean infantry units then yes. Khuzait have higher riding stats. But where exactly is the sense in that? You're supposed to make meaningful choices and stick to your class, this is how TW presented it in this argument.

• Giving each class a predetermined purpose. To enable players to work on building effective teams, adapting tactics depending on the situation.

To be fair I did mean infantry yes; my example was a sharpshooter and a khans guard. It's been a few months since I've actually messed around with the files Younes - where do I find the troops types file these days?

I've moved house since bannerlord.

 

[Younes]

To be fair I did mean infantry yes; my example was a sharpshooter and a khans guard. It's been a few months since I've actually messed around with the files Younes - where do I find the troops types file these days?

MPCharacters contains the skillset, face key and equipmentset. MPClassdivisions contains perks and other parameters related to speed, combat movement speed etc

 

[AJAJP_Juan]

To add to this, there doesn't seem to be any skill related to horse archery. Which means i suppose that "Bow" skills is the same as horse archery which is completely stupid.

I think horse archery is affected by riding, not bow, but cant confirm