TaleWorlds, how you succeded to piss off the friendliest community in videogames history?

Is our community is the best?

  • Yes, gimme some butter

    选票: 33 36.3%
  • No, I will drink from your skull

    选票: 58 63.7%

  • 全部投票
    91

正在查看此主题的用户

"Communities" are less than 10% of the buyers, and nowadays people tend to think that they are important because they are customers of a certain product. There is also a tendency to be noisy, politically it may even give some results, but not in this matter , the paritcipants in forums are a small minority, they are the most ardent defenders or detractors of a certain product, but commercially they are irrelevant.
I never came to this forum, nor did I know it existed, until I bought the game, like the vast majority of us.
Taleworlds will launch this game on consoles as it is right now, and that is their target, it is certainly not to fill the fan imagination or expectations of the old game.
 
Why not develop your own game or start modding and pop up some monthly updates for us my dude? Sounds like a really easy job ?

Well although you were just being sassy and maybe not actually intending to use this as an actual argument, just in case I wanted to correct you to help you hone your reasoning!

Although you asked a questioned, the premise of the argument the question would impose is a genetic fallacy. More specifically some would say its a type of ad hominem. You are implying that his criticisms should be rejected because he (likely) cannot develop a game or a mod better than developers at TaleWorlds studio. Basically it is fallacious to reject an argument solely because of the source of the argument. Which effectively allows any rational mind to automatically dismiss your response out of hand.

I hope this free lesson was beneficial and serves you well in your future endeavors. The more you know*************************
 
Well although you were just being sassy and maybe not actually intending to use this as an actual argument, just in case I wanted to correct you to help you hone your reasoning!

Although you asked a questioned, the premise of the argument the question would impose is a genetic fallacy. More specifically some would say its a type of ad hominem. You are implying that his criticisms should be rejected because he (likely) cannot develop a game or a mod better than developers at TaleWorlds studio. Basically it is fallacious to reject an argument solely because of the source of the argument. Which effectively allows any rational mind to automatically dismiss your response out of hand.

I hope this free lesson was beneficial and serves you well in your future endeavors. The more you know*************************
He's using it to illustrate the difficulty of whatever the person he was responding to demanded.

"You can't do it, so your opinion is void" is just an afterthought, focusing on that doesn't really capture the meaning of what he said.
 
He's using it to illustrate the difficulty of whatever the person he was responding to demanded.

"You can't do it, so your opinion is void" is just an afterthought, focusing on that doesn't really capture the meaning of what he said.
Precisely, I couldn't explain it better myself.

To expand on that: Demanding "really game changing updates" in a even shorter amount of time than once every 1-2 months is just deeply unrealistic, this is the insight I was trying to hint at. Besides the normal development, we already know issues and bugs arise, and they need to be fixed before release as much as possible, and so everything takes time. Think about how many things you accomplish in 1-2 months time. It's a pretty short time frame isn't it? So there's a lot of work going on in these monthly patches. If it was that easy to do, especially for a complex game as this (it's a 44gb game after all, not an indie 1gb sized game), every person and company would do it. But, I barely see any high quality games out there anyway. High quality games are sadly a total minority nowadays. Look at resident evil 8 just now, a 10 hour game for 60 euros that has the story all over the place and is filled with enemy spam, call-of-duty-like shootey gameplay pretty much (and close to 0 scare factor), + toddler written-dialogue and monologue... the game doesn't even look that good graphics-wise, and by the end of it it just feels like developers said "**** it, I'm bored, let's throw in some random enemies and be done with it"... That's a 60 euros game and the game is sitting at 90% review on steam, for 10 bloody hours of mediocre gameplay with maybe 1 time replayability for the die-hard resident evil fans. It's a total joke... some games don't receive much criticism even though they honestly deserve it more. So my point is that there's really not much effort going on into most games these days, and I think TW is doing more than fine by contrast - they're still updating the game regularly and working at it, and we're lucky that they're doing so. I can already see the game taking a very nice shape in the foreseeable future. It just takes some time to pump those updates out and that's normal, there's a lot to be done. And I personally prefer one patch every 2 months if that also means more content added at once. It also doesn't break people's mods as often which is another plus;
 
Well I just posted a big response in another thread on a related topic so I don't want to go in too deep here but if I do my best to be objective about the current state of this game, I find it difficult to count myself in neither the "TaleWorlds is doing their best" position nor the "TaleWorlds is either failing or abandoning this project" one.

I have only been following this game for a few months and only playing it for a couple. I only started exploring mods and editing XMLs for the last two weeks or so. I would definitely say this game has piqued my interest and I currently am thoroughly enjoying it and would even be willing to go out on a limb and say I feel I have already been compensated for wait I paid for it in experienced entertainment value as well as future entertainment value no matter how slow they develop because of the almost endless possibilities the mod community can provide. Not to mention whenever or if ever, the full mod tools are made available. So it is easy for me to see people going in hard on TaleWorlds or being overly negative or toxic towards them as at best uncalled for at worst the ramblings of overly cynical malcontents.

However I could also easily see if I was a long time supporter of the series and had been on board since the start and had experienced all the change or lack thereof over the allotted time that has gone by, being totally disappointed and frustrated. And also seeing people taking my ranting as just idle bashing of the game/studio when in fact it comes from a place love for the game (or the idea of it) and feeling like TaleWorlds is not meeting expectations because of the Early Access double edged sword conundrum or fearing they are in the process of pulling the old bait and switch because of fiscal reasons and development difficulties.

I also am not familiar enough with the studio and there attitudes and philosophies. I do not know how much they "rely" on the modding community to relieve some of the burden by providing bits of content and quality of life changes or if they develop with the mindset of modding being strictly extra curricular. It would be harder for me to accept they hold to the former however with the way either their updates, framework or available modding tools, cause hell for mod creators and cost them hours upon hours of hard work.

Given my experiences so far, the research I've done, the few develop responses/Q & A's I've seen, and my following of the communities' thoughts, I definitely have my concerns that whatever their philosophy and/or goals are for this game may not be in line with that of the majority of their playerbase and some of their decisions and lack of action in certain areas come off to me a bit short-sighted and a bit apathetic even. If not for seemingly avoiding hot button issues and highly agreed upon suggestions but for, from what I can tell, a complete lack of communication or transparency. Although I could also see there being valid reasons for avoiding too much communication or making "promises".

With all that said, I still respect and admire what they have offered so far and am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are even willing to support an innovative and arguable risky game and because for all my years in gaming this game has provided me with a novel experience. Those things lead me to conclude the challenges and difficulty building the foundation and delivering the ambitious goals the players expect are more difficult than most other studios deal with especially given their resources and manpower available.

And once again I was long winded af, so apologies and thanks if you read through it all. I spent a good portion of the night practicing and FINALLY being able to semi consistently beat the Sturgian game host in Konane has me feeling all big brained this evening. I promise I'm not normally so damn pedantic. Its mostly though because I really do dig this game and really do want it to progress and succeed despite my concerns.
 
Well although you were just being sassy and maybe not actually intending to use this as an actual argument, just in case I wanted to correct you to help you hone your reasoning!

Although you asked a questioned, the premise of the argument the question would impose is a genetic fallacy. More specifically some would say its a type of ad hominem. You are implying that his criticisms should be rejected because he (likely) cannot develop a game or a mod better than developers at TaleWorlds studio. Basically it is fallacious to reject an argument solely because of the source of the argument. Which effectively allows any rational mind to automatically dismiss your response out of hand.

I hope this free lesson was beneficial and serves you well in your future endeavors. The more you know*************************
Thank you for the free lesson of rhetoric.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you yourself having the same kind of reasoning?
His criticism (of OP's criticism) should be rejected because, by your lesson, you are implying that he doesn't know how to "correclty" make an argument...
Well I just posted a big response in another thread on a related topic so I don't want to go in too deep here but if I do my best to be objective about the current state of this game, I find it difficult to count myself in neither the "TaleWorlds is doing their best" position nor the "TaleWorlds is either failing or abandoning this project" one.

I have only been following this game for a few months and only playing it for a couple. I only started exploring mods and editing XMLs for the last two weeks or so. I would definitely say this game has piqued my interest and I currently am thoroughly enjoying it and would even be willing to go out on a limb and say I feel I have already been compensated for wait I paid for it in experienced entertainment value as well as future entertainment value no matter how slow they develop because of the almost endless possibilities the mod community can provide. Not to mention whenever or if ever, the full mod tools are made available. So it is easy for me to see people going in hard on TaleWorlds or being overly negative or toxic towards them as at best uncalled for at worst the ramblings of overly cynical malcontents.

However I could also easily see if I was a long time supporter of the series and had been on board since the start and had experienced all the change or lack thereof over the allotted time that has gone by, being totally disappointed and frustrated. And also seeing people taking my ranting as just idle bashing of the game/studio when in fact it comes from a place love for the game (or the idea of it) and feeling like TaleWorlds is not meeting expectations because of the Early Access double edged sword conundrum or fearing they are in the process of pulling the old bait and switch because of fiscal reasons and development difficulties.

I also am not familiar enough with the studio and there attitudes and philosophies. I do not know how much they "rely" on the modding community to relieve some of the burden by providing bits of content and quality of life changes or if they develop with the mindset of modding being strictly extra curricular. It would be harder for me to accept they hold to the former however with the way either their updates, framework or available modding tools, cause hell for mod creators and cost them hours upon hours of hard work.

Given my experiences so far, the research I've done, the few develop responses/Q & A's I've seen, and my following of the communities' thoughts, I definitely have my concerns that whatever their philosophy and/or goals are for this game may not be in line with that of the majority of their playerbase and some of their decisions and lack of action in certain areas come off to me a bit short-sighted and a bit apathetic even. If not for seemingly avoiding hot button issues and highly agreed upon suggestions but for, from what I can tell, a complete lack of communication or transparency. Although I could also see there being valid reasons for avoiding too much communication or making "promises".

With all that said, I still respect and admire what they have offered so far and am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because they are even willing to support an innovative and arguable risky game and because for all my years in gaming this game has provided me with a novel experience. Those things lead me to conclude the challenges and difficulty building the foundation and delivering the ambitious goals the players expect are more difficult than most other studios deal with especially given their resources and manpower available.

And once again I was long winded af, so apologies and thanks if you read through it all. I spent a good portion of the night practicing and FINALLY being able to semi consistently beat the Sturgian game host in Konane has me feeling all big brained this evening. I promise I'm not normally so damn pedantic. Its mostly though because I really do dig this game and really do want it to progress and succeed despite my concerns.
Speaking of rhetoric, though you obviously have high writing skills, shall we categorize the above as an example of grandiloquance?
We find a lot of posts that basically say the same thing:
"After seeing all the criticism, I'm kinda agree with both opinions. I'm a new M&B player and actually enjoying the game. But I can't deny that it still lacks in providing its full potential. I can understand the frustration of old players and modding "community". Hopefully TW will be able to provide a polished game."
Coming back to the OP, I guess we can say that you neither need butter, neither want to drink from his skull...
 
"Failworlds" xD.
Armagan, I hereby declare thy establishment the worldly title of Failworlds, on behalf of the community, the council, the respected states of planet Earth, and the "toxic" landscape of the World Wide Web.
 
The main problem with TW is that even though it must not be easy to develop such a game, they are doing **** all to communicate with their playerbase. I have yet to meet a developer that genuinely cares about this game.
I've been playing for about 2 months and seen, IIRC, 2 fairly significant updates and several hotfixes. I've posted on the forums like 5 times and gotten 2 responses from a developer. I was just told that a couple of my ideas will be brought to the development team. Maybe I'm just incredibly lucky, but my experience hasn't been the same as yours.

Also, over the past year I've heard a lot of "they just don't care about the thing they spend all their time doing" from angry people who don't know much, and it's pretty much always been bull****. Of course they care about their game. Of course they want it to be great. Of course they want to eliminate bugs. Their failure to meet your expectations is not indicative of laziness or disinterest on their part. This stuff is complicated.
 
I've been playing for about 2 months and seen, IIRC, 2 fairly significant updates and several hotfixes. I've posted on the forums like 5 times and gotten 2 responses from a developer. I was just told that a couple of my ideas will be brought to the development team. Maybe I'm just incredibly lucky, but my experience hasn't been the same as yours.

Also, over the past year I've heard a lot of "they just don't care about the thing they spend all their time doing" from angry people who don't know much, and it's pretty much always been bull****. Of course they care about their game. Of course they want it to be great. Of course they want to eliminate bugs. Their failure to meet your expectations is not indicative of laziness or disinterest on their part. This stuff is complicated.
Well, I guess your long and fruitful experience with Taleworlds qualifies you to make better and more informed statements than "angry people who don't know much" and spout "bull****". You are basically on first name basis with all the devs and know how they spend their days, unlike most of the people here.
I mean you've been playing for 2 months and seen 2 updates, that's all it takes to know better than the rest.
 
Well, I guess your long and fruitful experience with Taleworlds qualifies you to make better and more informed statements than "angry people who don't know much" and spout "bull****". You are basically on first name basis with all the devs and know how they spend their days, unlike most of the people here.
I mean you've been playing for 2 months and seen 2 updates, that's all it takes to know better than the rest.
In the short time I've been playing I've seen several updates. Therefore I concluded that there have been updates, hysterical forum rants notwithstanding.

In the much longer time I've been alive I've learned that people tend to care far more about their careers than angry strangers give them credit for, hysterical forum rants notwithstanding.
 
I'm not one to talk, given how little I actually engage in the forums, but it's really disheartening to see that in the most recent threads, there's always 4 or 5 that are straight up flaming the devs, instead of providing anything of substance.
 
I'm not one to talk, given how little I actually engage in the forums, but it's really disheartening to see that in the most recent threads, there's always 4 or 5 that are straight up flaming the devs, instead of providing anything of substance.
Because they deserve it, 8 years for nothing.
 
:lol: :lol: :lol:
This was so true for warband, the amount of false information and completely untrue advice I saw there back when I was still learning the game is insane. Even 4chan isn't as bad.
It still is! I see popular youtubers who play warband over and over for years still assert that "all party skills stack" and then they argue with me when I akshually them. Or "you need high RTR and or they declare war on you" No, that's not what RTR does, they will attack you anyways!
"hmmm.... no I read it on the internet....that's what it does!".
 
Because they deserve it, 8 years for nothing.
It must be great to be a video game developer. Sure, the hours are long and the pay's not that great, but you have the opportunity to build something and share it with...

Oh.

Right.

Actually it's probably more fun and rewarding to drive a garbage truck.
 
It must be great to be a video game developer. Sure, the hours are long and the pay's not that great, but you have the opportunity to build something and share it with...

Oh.

Right.

Actually it's probably more fun and rewarding to drive a garbage truck.
Especially in my neighbourhood where the garbage truck drivers push over people's full trash containers that are parked wrong xD
 
后退
顶部 底部