taleworlds does not care about the experienced players multiplayer scene

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metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
The combat system should be fundamentally the same as warband

Fundamentally it really is the same. Same directions, same controls, same general kind of weapons. It's just evolved in certain aspects where you have more noticable cooldowns, ect so feint scripts aren't really that useful anymore. Swings and feints can be followed with the naked eye without using drugs or having played the game for ages. And it's still far away from easy. Especially when you have 2 or even more around you hunting you it's incredibly rewarding to get out of the situation alive.

It isn't entirely realisitic, but that isn't why I played it. It was the fact that blocking was a lot more skill based, and you had a stake to ever mis step.

I'm always baffled by that kind of argumentation. Well whether you're aware or not the game IS depicting reality. If you don't care about reality you can just as well play ESO or something like that. It also has blocking and someone (not me) could argue skill-based combat. It's essentially really the fact that M&B stays as close to reality as possible (of course always with the disclaimer of "given the circumstances (technical, technological, operational, and the fact that it should be fun for people who sometimes do other stuff in their daily lives)" that makes me love this game. If you put a dragon or anything like that in this game, I am gone before you can say "Bitte Tritte in die Schritte".
 

RCC_God

Knight
And I almost feel like it’s impossible to argue that the skill cap is higher in bannerlord no matter what you think about the combat
 

Caps

Knight at Arms
WBWF&SNWVC
Fundamentally it really is the same. Same directions, same controls, same general kind of weapons. It's just evolved in certain aspects where you have more noticable cooldowns, ect so feint scripts aren't really that useful anymore. Swings and feints can be followed with the naked eye without using drugs or having played the game for ages. And it's still far away from easy. Especially when you have 2 or even more around you hunting you it's incredibly rewarding to get out of the situation alive.



I'm always baffled by that kind of argumentation. Well whether you're aware or not the game IS depicting reality. If you don't care about reality you can just as well play ESO or something like that. It also has blocking and someone (not me) could argue skill-based combat. It's essentially really the fact that M&B stays as close to reality as possible (of course always with the disclaimer of "given the circumstances (technical, technological, operational, and the fact that it should be fun for people who sometimes do other stuff in their daily lives)" that makes me love this game. If you put a dragon or anything like that in this game, I am gone before you can say "Bitte Tritte in die Schritte".

Feints are kinda hard to read, some impossible. If they fix the combat issues pointed out by the community and spent some effort into mp it got potential.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Feints are kinda hard to read, some impossible. If they fix the combat issues pointed out by the community and spent some effort into mp it got potential.

I don't think they're hard to read. It's not always a piece of cake, depending on the skill of the player feinting but mostly well possible. In my personal opinion in the sweet spot.
 
Every single paged filled with metafa posts derailing :sick: - don't get baited by the troll

The class system in bannerlord is far more prone to uniformity than the warband system was even with perks, it's much harder to balance more than three classes and people can pick up literally anything they want in the game. Spawn as infantry, find a horse, grab the bow and the arrows of your dead teammate while you're at it you're a horse archer with more than good stats. We haven't even seen any competitive matches yet but I've seen enough to tell where the game is heading. You've turned warband faction balance issues into an issue with the equipment system, when it's clearly not it's just TaleWorlds utter neglect to balancing the multiplayer factions. Currently there are only a few selections that are viable and guess what it's better to pick an archer with a little shield on most factions because they have more armor than any of the infantry classes. Congratulations you are playing medieval overwatch. Combine that with a limited class system with really terrible choices for perks and equipment on most of the classes, you know it's like playing Custom Battle, or resuming someone elses singleplayer campaign. Some bellend made the choices for me but he doesn't even understand how to play the game.

I'd prefer to not resume the campaign as

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metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Every single paged filled with metafa posts derailing :sick: - don't get baited by the troll

I get the sense that you don't like my postings. Nah, probably unfounded paranoia. After all if that was the case you'd simply shrug off all my opinions as trolling. 🙄

I also don't agree with what you stated. The class system gives you a finite and more limited amount of combinations of initial equipment and that even only mathematically makes balancing more manageable. Fact that you can pick up equipment from the ground (which disappears quite fast) is a small but welcome wildcard. You can pick up 1 of a set of limited pieces of equipment at a time and therefore the chances are highest that you will encounter a player in their original loadout. And that really makes for interesting playstyles because I love the immediate change of combat rhythm that usually occurs when suddenly during a fight I get out a piece of equipment that the opponent didn't expect, like a picked up and turned into mele-Javelin when I'm actually an archer usually only armed with bow and sword. As said - I love this game and find it unfortunate how little appreciation it gets from people here. Many mechanics are actually genius - a good middle ground of slight and bigger changes - and deserve more credit and if you think that's trolling I think says more about you than about me.
 
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Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Metafa, could I ask something? You are set in your opinions on the game, which run contrary to the general opinion in threads like these. That's fine, you don't need to agree. I (and I think most of the other people disagreeing) would very much like to have a clear chat with the developers about the class system, the lack of communication in the beta, and other such points. We had the start of such a conversation in the first pages of this discussion. However, around page 4 of the discussion, you jumped in and started making counterpoints to every question and argument made, which devolved the discussion into namecalling, and a buttload of people trying to convince others who cannot be convinced.
Can we please just use threads like these to get answers from the developers themselves? Not just non-developers people saying "What we have now is better, and your arguments are wrong"?
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Metafa, could I ask something? You are set in your opinions on the game, which run contrary to the general opinion in threads like these. That's fine, you don't need to agree. I (and I think most of the other people disagreeing) would very much like to have a clear chat with the developers about the class system, the lack of communication in the beta, and other such points. We had the start of such a conversation in the first pages of this discussion. However, around page 4 of the discussion, you jumped in and started making counterpoints to every question and argument made, which devolved the discussion into namecalling, and a buttload of people trying to convince others who cannot be convinced.
Can we please just use threads like these to get answers from the developers themselves? Not just non-developers people saying "What we have now is better, and your arguments are wrong"?

Go ahead. I basically just chimed in because someone said "I am yet to meet a player who actively enjoys the current set up, and who isn't endorsing a return to the original equipment selection." :grin: then my take was addressed, ect. I will certainly not stop you from addressing Callum, and even less if you ask that politely. I just take the right to report in when someone needs a hands up about who's in favor of what BL offers now. If you're not addressing Callum I take it it's a general statement that is open to scrutiny.
 

pegunCZ

Banned
WBNW
There is a reason no one goes about the cities without armed guards once the sun sets, and that reason is Rodrigo de Braganca. Once a bright eyed merchant who arrived at Tihr with a small fortune in rubies and a dream to corner the velvet market, he was soon reduced to a pauper, having lost everything to cutthroat competition with the colluding Rhodok merchant guilds. But he soon turned measuring scales into swords, and applied his considerable business smarts into building up the deadliest criminal enterprise in Veluca, with hideouts and operations in every major town. He has attained his goal, for the price on his head is greater than the riches he once pursued. Now he takes great pleasure in relieving his former competitors of their worldly goods -— and worries.
 

grimsight

Sergeant Knight
WB
The class system gives you a finite and more limited amount of combinations of initial equipment and that even only mathematically makes balancing more manageable.

Same old discussions that were had months ago in Alpha. I'm just going to copy paste what I said back then regarding the class system being easier to balance

- You are assuming every single combination of equipment must be equally balanced. That is not the case. There is a progression of equipment tied to the game economy. It is the broader progression of stats that must be balanced, not every single load out meticulously balanced.

- Bannerlord use of archetypal classes limit the player from bringing necessary equipment such as shields and spears. When important pieces such as those are being withheld it is very easy for classes to become utterly useless, as you literally do not have access to the tools needed to deal with various situations you will come across in play.

- In practice the archetypes make the class system much harder to balance. How does a shieldless berserker ever hope to approach an archer that is set up on the last flag? How does an infantry that is not given a spear protect himself against a cav whose heavy lance reaches far beyond the infantry's sword? How do you balance infantry when they are faced with the choice between the better armour vs the spear perk, where they'll end up either being easy kills for archers or endlessly bullied by cavalry?
 

Maroon

Grandmaster Knight
WBWF&SNW
Go ahead. I basically just chimed in because someone said "I am yet to meet a player who actively enjoys the current set up, and who isn't endorsing a return to the original equipment selection." :grin: then my take was addressed, ect. I will certainly not stop you from addressing Callum, and even less if you ask that politely. I just take the right to report in when someone needs a hands up about who's in favor of what BL offers now. If you're not addressing Callum I take it it's a general statement that is open to scrutiny.

Thanks. With that, I would like to quote my most pressing questions and concerns, in the hope that they get addressed by the devs:

Before I start: this isn't aimed specifically at you, Callum. You're a great guy, but I'm just so fed up about your company's stance on this issue.

[etc etc.]

To summarize: in 9 months, Taleworlds has only managed to produce a handful of reasons for the class system that haven't been a contradiction to their other arguments for the system, or that haven't been proven by the community to be false reasons. Yet we're still at exactly the same point: Taleworlds just saying "no this is better".
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
- In practice the archetypes make the class system much harder to balance. How does a shieldless berserker ever hope to approach an archer that is set up on the last flag? How does an infantry that is not given a spear protect himself against a cav whose heavy lance reaches far beyond the infantry's sword? How do you balance infantry when they are faced with the choice between the better armour vs the spear perk, where they'll end up either being easy kills for archers or endlessly bullied by cavalry?

The answer to all your questions is completely clear and obvious. Get creative. Use the environment, as berserker cycle, as inf jump to the side, so easy to avoid a charging cav. Must I perpetual noob tell you eternal masters how?

@Maroon sry dude he came in between. I hope you get your answer from the devs
 
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RCC_God

Knight
There’s this guy, No_Feint_Fredd, and his feints are the most unpredictable I’ve ever seen I can’t even track them... I’m predicting feints are gonna be WORSE in bannerlord than warband because of the block delays
 

grimsight

Sergeant Knight
WB
The answer to all your questions is completely clear and obvious. Get creative. Use the environment, as berserker cycle, as inf jump to the side, so easy to avoid a charging cav. Must I perpetual noob tell you masters how?

Thanks for using your brain bud it's very brave of you :xf-wink:

Bannerlord's multiplayer is based on objectives. Your enemies will take defensive positions on the objective once they have it. That entails archers being in hard to reach places, infantry blocking your path, and cavalry picking you off if you separate. Doesn't matter how creative you are, you will not survive without a shield.

Your "answer" relies on your enemy being asleep at the wheel. I suppose this makes sense as your concept of skill entails going positive on TDM?
 

Pacemaker

Knight at Arms
There’s this guy, No_Feint_Fredd, and his feints are the most unpredictable I’ve ever seen I can’t even track them... I’m predicting feints are gonna be WORSE in bannerlord than warband because of the block delays
Well, not really. Other than the fact that feints are centered around attack cancellation rather than using visual trickery (like the stab animation), there's nothing hard to read about them. Switching attack direction is much smoother animation wise, so you can follow it a little better. The problem is, people don't even get to optimize on feinting at the moment because of all the inconsistencies we have to struggle with when in melee combat, like stance advantage and billions of weapon glancing factors.
 

metafa

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Thanks for using your brain bud it's very brave of you :xf-wink:

Bannerlord's multiplayer is based on objectives. Your enemies will take defensive positions on the objective once they have it. That entails archers being in hard to reach places, infantry blocking your path, and cavalry picking you off if you separate. Doesn't matter how creative you are, you will not survive without a shield.

Your "answer" relies on your enemy being asleep at the wheel. I suppose this makes sense as your concept of skill entails going positive on TDM?

Generally yes. But what is the solution here? Everyone spawns with a shield and a spear and a mele weapon and a ranged weapon? Wouldn't that beat the whole purpose of carefully picking your equipment? And wouldn't that come with it's own problems of "monotony"?
 
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