taleworlds does not care about the experienced players multiplayer scene

[RDP]

Makes you wonder why they invited competitive players to the beta. It's like they actually cared about getting a perspective from competitive players.
It's like the devs actually wanted competitive players to have a say in the game. Really weird.

I am in no means a competitive player, but you are calling out that competitive players are whining while you yourself are whining. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

Also all of this is your opinion, nothing is a fact.

The current state of multiplayer not even including balance and combat mechanics after so long is an indicator that they dont care very much... hell they wont even give servers, we only have callum responding and he doesnt even seem to know much.
We dont even get statements from TW saying this is our goal, these are our issues, this is the eta on servers/maps/balance/modes. All we get is "close too official release" from callum. Some input from actual multiplayer devs would be great to show they care about mp.

 

[Tork789]

Genuine question. Why are you white knighting for TaleWorlds? The community is allowed to share their opinion and feedback regarding a product whether good or bad. Meanwhile, you are more intent on attempting to silence and shut down conversations while disparaging people for sharing their feelings and opinions.

Genuine question: are you actually genuine and this distorted view of my actions is actually how you perceive them or you use the word genuine without actually meaning it? In either case I'm not sure how to respond to that, since it's such a loaded question I won't even attempt unraveling it.

Makes you wonder why they invited competitive players to the beta. It's like they actually cared about getting a perspective from competitive players.
It's like the devs actually wanted competitive players to have a say in the game. Really weird.

I am in no means a competitive player, but you are calling out that competitive players are whining while you yourself are whining. Pretty ironic if you ask me.

Also all of this is your opinion, nothing is a fact.

I'm not whining, I'm calling out bs when I see it. I never said that the devs don't care about that bunch's opinion, in fact I said the opposite, I never even said that they don't make good suggestions, they do and did, quite a few actually. It's the attitude and their behaviour that I abhore.

 

[Younes]

Genuine question: are you actually genuine and this distorted view of my actions is actually how you perceive them or you use the word genuine without actually meaning it? In either case I'm not sure how to respond to that, since it's such a loaded question I won't even attempt unraveling it.


I'm not whining, I'm calling out bs when I see it. I never said that the devs don't care about that bunch's opinion, in fact I said the opposite, I never even said that they don't make good suggestions, they do and did, quite a few actually. It's the attitude and their behaviour that I abhore.

You calling it bull**** is just an opinion. I don't see it as bull****.

You get invited by taleworlds because you have knowledge about the competitive side of the game.

Then once you have the full confidence of the studio they will listen to you, be heavily invested in the game and studying its mechanics you get neglected by the same people who asked for your advice.

But again, this is my take on it.

 

[Tork789]

You calling it bull**** is just an opinion. I don't see it as bull****.

Sure, why not.

You get invited by taleworlds because you have knowledge about the competitive side of the game.

Then once you have the full confidence of the studio they will listen to you, be heavily invested in the game and studying its mechanics you get neglected by the same people who asked for your advice.

But again, this is my take on it.

That's the problem. You got invited to give an opinion and suggestions, not to boss them around. They are free not to use your suggestions, because, believe it or not, you aren't perfect, you can be wrong and they are free to have their own opinion too, and they don't owe you anything.

Imagine I made an art piece and invited you to give your opinion. You give a few and I like them and use it to improve my work, but then you give a bad one and I decide not to go along with this one, but thank you for the input nonetheless. Do you think it would be justified from your position to start insulting me and demanding that I make it exactly like you suggested?

 

[Younes]

Sure, why not.


That's the problem. You got invited to give an opinion and suggestions, not to boss them around. They are free not to use your suggestions, because, believe it or not, you aren't perfect, you can be wrong and they are free to have their own opinion too, and they don't owe you anything.

Imagine I made an art piece and invited you to give your opinion. You give a few and I like them and use it to improve my work, but then you give a bad one and I decide not to go along with this one, but thank you for the input nonetheless. Do you think it would be justified from your position to start insulting me and demanding that I make it exactly like you suggested?

Except the art piece is not finished. And the person you asked their opinion for is an actual artist. And there are several artists who find your current unfinished piece of art completely wrong. They suggest you to change it before you're able to finish it because they know it won't turn out to be good and you would lose a lot of precious time. But you neglect them, even through you are not an artist, you are actually a inexperienced painter who just started making your first piece of art.

 

[Revverie]

It was a direct response to the OP saying the same thing with the intention of highlighting that we both have the same playtime yet have opposing opinions.



Someone already quoted my response to that question. Scroll up the page (3rd reply above yours).

What surprises me of your comments Callum is that you have no interest in taking note of the players or even pretend to do so in any time, you're doing quite deaf ears in this matter and its really weird that you as a company decide to look away in this matter, but anyways the numbers will tell eventually as they always do, even if its in the veterans' or Taleworlds' favor

 

[Tork789]

Except the art piece is not finished. And the person you asked their opinion for is an actual artist. And there are several artists who find your current unfinished piece of art completely wrong. They suggest you to change it before you're able to finish it because they know it won't turn out to be good and you would lose a lot of precious time. But you neglect them, even through you are not an artist, you are actually a inexperienced painter who just started making your first piece of art.

Wait... did you just compare yourself with an experienced artist and TW with a newbie painter who just started to make his first art?

Anyways, even if we accept the quite.. dubious supposition of yours, I'm still free to ignore the experienced artists and fail or find success, it's my art and my responsibility. I'm still free to do what I want.

 

[Younes]

Wait... did you just compare yourself with an experienced artist and TW with a newbie painter who just started to make his first art?

Anyways, even if we accept the quite.. dubious supposition of yours, I'm still free to ignore the experienced artists and fail or find success, it's my art and my responsibility. I'm still free to do what I want.

Taleworlds is a newbie painter in the sense that the developers were not warband or any mount and blade competitive players.

Wouldn't valve take competitive players from CS:GO a little bit fking serious if CS:GO 2 was in the making?

If your art fails even through you neglected the artists, don't come crying back to them. I'm telling you this from my perspective as someone who has studied the free arts for 6 years and have had to restart countless time.


Art isn't a straight line. After reflecting on your work and try to look at it from a objective standpoint, going a different direction in the middle of it is not something bad.


Again, this is my opinion. I might be wrong, you might be wrong we don't know.

 

[Tork789]

Taleworlds is a newbie painter in the sense that the developer were not warband or any mount and blade competitive players.

So you think they should just blindly listen to the experienced warband players?

 

[Younes]

So you think they should just blindly listen to the experienced warband players?

They should try to find a middle ground with the competitive players for the competitive side of the game since this is why they were invited for in the first place.

Notice how i didn't mention casual because the competitive players have actively been trying to raise the skill gap and suggesting solutions to get casual players to get people into the multiplayer at the same time.

You don't seem to understand that most, because i know a very few don't, competitive players realize that the whole success of the multiplayer competitive scene as an esports is dependant on making the casual side easy get into it and in return will make the competitive scene grow.


If the casual experience is not enjoyable, no one will get into the competitive scene.

 

[Tork789]

They should try to find a middle ground with the competitive players for the competitive side of the game since this is why they were invited for in the first place.

Sure. But do you think being obnoxious and insulting towards the devs isn't helping that matter?

 

[Liwi]

well I think it's clear what people prefer, but they won't change it. I'm just hoping for mods by now to fix MP (being no modder, I hope that'll be possible?). Bannerlord has great potential, but for me

- the restrictive class system,
- the current restrictive game modes (will there be battle outside of match-making? Nothing like the tension of being the last surviving on your team and trying to clutch it )
- the lack of skill you need to be succesful (blocking/feinting feels less skill-based and no team damage except skirmish --> just shoot, couch-lance, or spam your twohander into melee no worries)

take away a lot of the fun that clearly could be there. I quickly get bored and except for mods I'm pretty sure the current implementation won't keep people playing for nearly as long as Warband MP.

 

[metafa]

Except the art piece is not finished. And the person you asked their opinion for is an actual artist. And there are several artists who find your current unfinished piece of art completely wrong. They suggest you to change it before you're able to finish it because they know it won't turn out to be good and you would lose a lot of precious time. But you neglect them, even through you are not an artist, you are actually a inexperienced painter who just started making your first piece of art.

You fail to see what is the actual discipline though. The "art" in this metaphor is actually not "being good at killing in M&B" but the art is "selling and growing the customer base of a reality-depicting medieval warfare game" and on that you're not an artist, no one of you is, and neither am I. You're probably not even a business owner, selling anything, not even tomatoes or jet engines; as I said pages ago, you don't know TW's considerations. You look at it from your little perspective liking big red tomatoes having eaten them for years, while newer customers think the small, sweet ones are just more tasty and the producer finding it easier to protect those from vermin.

well I think it's clear what people prefer, but they won't change it. I'm just hoping for mods by now to fix MP (being no modder, I hope that'll be possible?). Bannerlord has great potential, but for me

Take it from a programmer of 20 years and an occasional modder, it is very possible, IF TW intentionally or implicitly lets modders "go there". Not sure about the combat system (whether they'll let modders make such changes), but near-100% sure about the class system, that will be changeable and replaceable with something more WB-like IF we get community-run dedicated servers ofc.

 

[jon01]

 

[Caps]

You fail to see what is the actual discipline though. The "art" in this metaphor is actually not "being good at killing in M&B" but the art is "selling and growing the customer base of a reality-depicting medieval warfare game" and on that you're not an artist, no one of you is, and neither am I. You're probably not even a business owner, selling anything, not even tomatoes or jet engines; as I said pages ago, you don't know TW's considerations. You look at it from your little perspective liking big red tomatoes having eaten them for years, while newer customers think the small, sweet ones are just more tasty and the producer finding it easier to protect those from vermin.



Take it from a programmer of 20 years and an occasional modder, it is very possible, IF TW intentionally or implicitly lets modders "go there". Not sure about the combat system (whether they'll let modders make such changes), but near-100% sure about the class system, that will be changeable and replaceable with something more WB-like IF we get community-run dedicated servers ofc.

you could always change the combat in mods... changeing it will require a whole team though

 

[metafa]

you could always change the combat in mods... changeing it will require a whole team though

Not necessarily. As far as I understand it ppl complain about cooldowns, ect, so a few changed variables could possibly already do the trick for 90% of complains about the combat system. Not knowing exactly what others really don't like and not in anyway understanding the language here of "broken" and "crap" and "sucks" I don't want to lean too far out of the window with this though.

 

[Younes]

Sure. But do you think being obnoxious and insulting towards the devs isn't helping that matter?

It wont help no.

 

[Caius_III]

To me it's pretty simple. If they asked the competitive players to take part in the Alpha/Beta, it's because they wanted people who mastered the core game mechanics of Warband in order to ask their feedbacks so that they could improve the combat system,...

You are not going to invite people who are autoblocking in singleplayer or streamers who have a hard time choosing the direction of their blocks/attacks in order to ask them deep feedbacks on how the game responds,...

Just like I'd invite competitive Counter Strike players to review my game if I had to make a sequel because of their understanding of the gameplay so that I'm sure my new game will be a better version.

It's like everything in life, I wouldn't go in a military camp and start telling soldiers how to use their guns and give feedbacks while I hardly ever shot a gun in my life,... I wouldn't invite people who hardly know how to handle a weapon if I wanted to receive proper feedbacks on balance, weight,... I would invite veterans, specialists. It's the same thing in every single field.

For **** sake it's pretty simple to understand.

 

[Maroon]

Sure. But do you think being obnoxious and insulting towards the devs isn't helping that matter?

I honestly don't know why I'm saying this, because I know it won't convince you, but still.
Taleworlds asked veteran players for their feedback. Veteran players gave their feedback, and gave solid arguments and evidence for their feedback (see: Charlini's videos). For the most part at least, I'm sure not everything was useful, but that's always the case with feedback.
However, in the 9 months since these players were invited, very little progress has been made to fix the issues pointed out. Some progress has been made, sure, but we've been 100% stonewalled on some issues. Now, the developers of course don't have to do exactly what we say. But it'd be real damn nice if we could actually hear some arguments from them why some valid concerns are not being addressed. Since that hasn't happened in all this time, I not at all surprised that veteran players are feeling burnt out.

 

[Shemaforash]

That mirrors my feelings exactly Maroon.