Tactic against waves after waves of Cavalries.

[tzlop]

I know this has been discussed so many times but I still find it very difficult to deal with them with all Inf units under few circumstances.

First, I KNOW hills are the best choice, and hard units such as Rhodok Serg/Sharp Nord Huscarl are more preferable.
Tight formation also reduce and eventually slows down the Cavalry units once they are in the 'death circle', while distracting most of the cavalry units and letting your archers do the work seems to work fine too.

My problem is that most of the time (unless late game) I am not likely to run around with high tier units and your tactic level won't be that high (sometimes),  and of course I won't always be fighting on hill fields or forests where Infantry has a much higher advantage than horses but instead in desert/steppe where most of the ground is flat and perfect for Cavalries.

First wave won't be that hard since everyone would just tell your troops to stand closer and form tight 3 line of infs and have no problem but I would often have the problem with some units standing there while some horse archers shooting at them literary 10 feet away and if I call my units to charge they basically gets picked off by lancers (knights) and often not fast enough to get back to the formation after the enemy reinforcement comes and gets slaughtered.

I appreciate any replies of any kind since I know some flaws from my paragraphs ( such as I could just retreat and resupply my archer's arrows ).

To summarize what I said - What is a way to beat Cavalry mass units (let it be deserters or lord armies) with Infantries with or without archers on a flat ground (or mostly flat)?  Thanks.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

Cavalry. Not Calvary (where Jesus where). At least you are consistent in your spelling error.

That aside, you simply can't expect to win if the enemy has waves of knights, in open flat terrain and you have low-tier infantry. Some battles should be avoided altogether.

1. Don't piss off nobles before you have some high-tier units. And/or pathfinding skill.

2. Be vary of staying in kergit or sassanid lands on low levels, the mounted bandits can make mincemeat out if your recuit army.

3. If you still get in this situation, try to disrtract the enemy yourself on horse, so that your infantry can stand and pepper the enemy with arrows while they chase you (need a fast horse for that). Or shoot them down as an archer, remember horses can be shot down even if the cavalry has shields.

 

[Chaingun]

Expanding on point 3 above:

Basically, this game does not work like "rock-scissors-paper"; high level units own low level units no matter what. Putting the army in a correct formation generally doesn't have as a large effect as one would like, although there are a few exceptions when you can find near vertical cliff faces that completely stop enemy cavalry.

What you can do to shift the odds is tied to your own ability:

- If you're very skilled at fighting (and have the right character/equipment), you can stand behind the first line of your army with an anti-cavalry weapon and/or a bow. If you've got a bardiche for instance, you can serial-kill any cavalry that have reached your infantry. And you can use a bow to pick off horse archers once you've survived the melee wave.

- You can run around like a chicken on a horse, to make sure that only a subset of the enemy force is engaging your line in melee at a time. This might see limited success vs horse archers though. Also, if it's not against your principles (i.e. you're restricting yourself to an infantry/foot archer character), you can keep kill a lot of pursuing enemies with 1H, 2H or bow while doing this. In fact, if your enemies have few ranged units, you can destroy their entire army this way (yes, it's that cheesy, hence why you might want to avoid it).

 

[SirDakkalot]

2. Be vary of staying in kergit or sassanid lands on low levels, the mounted bandits can make mincemeat out if your recuit army.

Why do a lot of people keep referring to them as Sassanids? It's Sarranids according to the game, unless I'm missing some sort of in-joke.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

2. Be vary of staying in kergit or sassanid lands on low levels, the mounted bandits can make mincemeat out if your recuit army.

Why do a lot of people keep referring to them as Sassanids? It's Sarranids according to the game, unless I'm missing some sort of in-joke.

Probably because Sassanids were a historical persian people, using similar troops.

 

[Lord Silvabane]

Get into a tight formation, heavy infantry up front and archers/crossbowmen behind. The cavalry will get stuck on the heavy infantry and  get chopped up while archers continuously fire into their faces.

 

[Rience]

Get into a tight formation, heavy infantry up front and archers/crossbowmen behind. The cavalry will get stuck on the heavy infantry and  get chopped up while archers continuously fire into their faces.

It works against bandits, but lords' armies usually deploy a line before charging which lets them surround you. I've lost three battles in a row against Vaegirs with my Nord-only armies. Their horsemen surround my shieldwall buying time for marksmen to deal damage, while my own archers are engaged. I really can't think of a solution other than bringing more numbers.

 

[StinkyMcGirk]

Take your own cavalry, preferably sword sisters / slaver chiefs... but basically ANY UNIT with a horse is fine.  You can even equip your companions with whatever cheap horses you have in your inventory just to do this.  Run them up ahead of your army at the very start.  Dismount so that there is a wall of horses, then bunch up all of your units as tight as possible into three lines that are right next to each other.  You basically want as close to a big square as possible.  Put the archers in the back so that they shoot at anything that attempts to flank and also so that they are not the ones who absorb any charging cavalry units that break through the horse wall.  If the enemy gets caught on the horse wall, order a charge, watch the melee, and order them to return to the 'square' set up you started with when the enemy gets reinforcement waves.  Rinse and repeat.

With Khergits, you WILL have some horse archers flanking the melee after the initial charge.  Luckily, the horse archery A.I. is incapable of hitting anything - just don't chase them, they'll come to you eventually.  You also have your shooters in the back of the formation who will likely take out a few of these.  Just understand that the real danger is the melee heavy cavalry.

Be conscious of your unit types weapons.  If you know you'll be going up against cavalry, the best weapon types for infantry are a mix of two handed pole-arms/2h weapons like glaives/pikes/warhammers and very short range blunt/piercing weapons like military hammers, spiked maces, and of course picks.  Since you're actively trying to make a huge melee pit where all movement stops, though, I strongly recommend having more short range blunt/piercing weapons than pole-arms - pole-arms need a lot of space to really shine with the A.I. units.

At the end of the day, if you're using infantry against cavalry, pick Rhodoks or Nords.  It's the obvious choice, though if you have any knack at all for tactics, Rhodoks are a far superior faction.  Probably the most overpowered faction in the game if you factor in the tilt towards siege warfare as you progress in the game.

 

[SkyChef]

Break your infantry & archer tiers into custom units (like inf1, inf2, inf3, arch1, arch2, arch3 etc) and micro-manage them. Have a reserve unit and hold them back then lead them to where you want to (follow me then charge).

 

[Sven-Mjolnir]

A rhodok sargeants line backed by a rhodok sharpshooters line, that combo will do for most cases, dont expect to take no losses tho if the enemy has a huge number of top tier cavalry it will be a hell of a battle even with those units. Choosing the right spot in the battlefield will make all the difference, allways get to higher ground.

 

[Falcon Critical]

Try to place yourself on an uphill (for the enemy) slope. Not only does it give the archers more room to shoot over your infantry, but horses slow down whenever they start going uphill and killing their momentum is key for avoiding couched lance damage.

 

[Kona_Kona67]

Not entirely sure what to tell you here. It seems that you are aware of the anti-cav tactics, but are unable to actually follow through with them.

Best bet is to avoid angering the Khergits, and stay the heck away from Steppe and Desert bandits.

 

[InFi[D]eL]

A method I began to experiment with, although this does require higher tier units is to use a split forces idea.

Arrange your army with 50% Heavy Infantry. Rhod Sergeants are affective against Lancers and spearman are more ideal for Mameluks.

Assign an additional 30% to Archers. I'd suggest Rhod Sharpshooters as these can take more of a beating that any other of the ranged units.

With the remaining 20% Stock on Ker Horse Archers.

When the battle begins position your army as such;

All infantry stand close together in a simple line. Never instigate a charge. Position your archers to either flank, (we shall use left of your infantry in this example) slightly further back at a diagonal angle. Creating a one sided wedge.

Have your Companions mounted as they will stay with the infantry line by default. Have the cav follow you. Ride a wide flank to the opposite side of your archers around the back of the enemy charge. Keep a distance of atleast 20ft. Ride slowly as you pass and stop if you need to.

What should happen is the enemy charge gets knotted with your Infantry as your archers pick them off from the side. You and your Horse archers will close the circle and hit them in the back.

When reinforcements arrive. Immediately ride, along with your horse archers around the entire formation (behind your archers and inf and return back to the starting point.

The reinforcements wave "SHOULD" target you and your horse archers first as they are closer. However, if you ride immediately as they arrive. They will try to take the most direct patch to you which should slam them back into the infantry line.

Here are some images to assist you: (click the button marked "Spoiler")

隐藏

Green: Your archers
Blue: Your heavy infantry
Pink: You + Your Horse Archers
Red/Black: Your enemy

Stage 1:

Wait till the enemy charge has reached the estimated base (non pointy bit) of the arrow. Once they ride past that approximate area. Ride forth (with cavalry ordered to follow you) along the course as depicted by the pink arrows. When you arrive at the area with the pink circle. Stop your troop there and begin to hail the enemy charge with arrows, who at this point will have stopped at your infantry wall (blue) Continue to do this until the enemy sends in reinforcements. See Stage 2:

Stage 2:

Now the enemy as sent in reinforcements; Begin riding again with your horse archers along the depicted course, again depicted by the pink arrows. The red numbers represent the estimated position of the enemy army whilst the pink numbers show where your army should be at the same time.

The enemy (red/black) will follow YOU and your Horse Archers (pink) as the AI will automatically target the nearest hostile unit when they spawn in. When the enemy is in position 1, your group should be coming up behind your archer line (green). When the enemy is in position 2 you should be coming up behind your infantry line (blue) by the time you are in position 3, the enemy should have smashed into your infantry line (blue) whilst attempting to chase you. The enemy will change movement direction in order to charge directly at your group. This means you can easily "kyte" them straight into your infantry wall.

All you need do then is repeat stage 1 again. Then repeat as needed.

Noteworthy points; Your Horse Archers (pink)"might" hit a friendly troop inside the infantry line (blue) by accident however in my experience that happens only 2-3% of the time. A nearly stationary large blob of horse and rider is hard to miss.

You may find you can not manoeuvre fast enough and the enemy reinforcements hits your archer line instead. In this case you'll need to gage the size of the map and ride a little sooner. Sometimes you'll go too quickly and find the need to stop behind your infantry line and wait. You will get used to it after some trial and error. Expect very few casualties, even when up against double your numbers.

Rhod Sharpshooters are important because they will drop a significant group of the enemy cavalry whilst you and your horse archers are positioning at the enemies rear.

Remember: Do NOT instigate a charge with your infantry line, if you do the enemies reinforcements will likely cause you impossible problems as you won't be able to reposition.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

There was a pretty nice vid on Youtube I just came across today that deals precisely with this issue.

The poster's solution was basically "Heavy infantry to the left, medium infantry to the right, recruits in the front center and archers in the back center. This is so that recruits will absorb the charge and the two blocks of infantry will close up and gobble the cavalry stuck in the mosh pit. It's essentially the Cannae double envelopment maneuver with the roles reversed.

Quite nice vid, but I forgot the link.

 

[InFi[D]eL]

There was a pretty nice vid on Youtube I just came across today that deals precisely with this issue.

The poster's solution was basically "Heavy infantry to the left, medium infantry to the right, recruits in the front center and archers in the back center. This is so that recruits will absorb the charge and the two blocks of infantry will close up and gobble the cavalry stuck in the mosh pit. It's essentially the Cannae double envelopment maneuver with the roles reversed.

Quite nice vid, but I forgot the link.

I remember something similar but it would still often result in a sizeable loss of medium infantry and it was next to impossible to reposition in the event of an enemy reinforcement so you'd loose all your recruits early then your heavy infantry would be exposed and easy to trample, as would the archers.

 

[Argeus the Paladin]

Also, I remember the semi-official faction guide for Prophesy of Pendor 3.0xx stating that the Empire, i.e. the Rhodok analog, has a surefire tactic against everything, which is putting everyone in a single line. Then again, in that mod the Imperial lineup has (i) super-heavy crossbows, (ii) javelins on steroids, (iii) pikes, halberds and greatswords, (iv) decent to very heavy armor, so that IS a sound tactic.

I *think* we can replicate that in vanilla by a combination of Huscarls, either sharpshooters, Rhodok sergeants and maybe a few Vaegir bardiches for extra awch.

 

[MrExpendable]

Infantry only:
You'd want to use Nord troops for this. Not only are they tough, but many of them carry throwing weapons which can dehorse many riders before they even reach your ranks. Raise high amounts of Nordic Veterans and Huscarls. Get on top of the largest hill within possible reach, preferably a forested one. Keep your formation tight and brace for the enemy charge.


80% Infantry, 20% cavalry:
Another possible tactic would be to use a small mercenary cavalry squad to lead towards the enemy rear, then charge and retreat. You will draw a pretty large group of enemy cavalry away from your infantry, so they can overwhelm the other part of the enemy army. Their local numerical superiority will destroy them quite easily. Then turn your cavalry around and draw the other part of the enemy army into your infantry. It's one of my favorite tactics to use when fighting on open grounds against a cavalry-heavy army. You will lose some cavalry yourself in the rather suicidal luring charge, so use expendable (pun intended) mercenary cavalry to do that job.

I've fought many battles using infantry-only armies.