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Superior bow is superior

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Tiedemannj

Regular
WBWF&SVC
The archer, archer militia and steppe bow can all choose between a faster bow, a more accurate bow and the superior bow. The problem is that the superior bow is, as the name implies, strictly superior. It's faster than the fast bow and more accurate than the accurate bow. The only thing you give up is 1 measly point of damage in comparison to the other two. This makes the other 2 perks practically useless.

In contrast the veteran, khans guard, ranger, hunter, fiann and palantine guard all get meaningful choises with their bows. Some are better in some aspects, but comes with some drawbacks.
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
The speed rating for the superior bow that is displayed is wrong. Fire rate should be 89 not 94. I didnt update it after doing my fixes to it it seems.
These are the stats for the bows:
NameMissle SpeedAccuracyBase DmagaeThrust Speed
Fast Short Bow (faster)618846125
Short Bow (range)709046100
Superior Bow (accuracy)659845100
Fast Short Bow = Faster Bow perk weapon for Empire+Aserai+ Khuzait light archer
Short Bow = Range Bow perk for Empire+Aserai+ Khuzait light archer
Missle Speed = How fast the arror is, that you are releasing
Thrust Speed = How fast you draw back the string of your bow


Having 1 less Base Damage and less missle speed, is actually a biger factor on damage than you might think. But maybe the +8 in accruacy is a little much. We will see!
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
The speed rating for the superior bow that is displayed is wrong. Fire rate should be 89 not 94. I didnt update it after doing my fixes to it it seems.
These are the stats for the bows:
NameMissle SpeedAccuracyBase DmagaeThrust Speed
Fast Short Bow (faster)618846125
Short Bow (range)709046100
Superior Bow (accuracy)659845100
Fast Short Bow = Faster Bow perk weapon for Empire+Aserai+ Khuzait light archer
Short Bow = Range Bow perk for Empire+Aserai+ Khuzait light archer
Missle Speed = How fast the arror is, that you are releasing
Thrust Speed = How fast you draw back the string of your bow


Having 1 less Base Damage and less missle speed, is actually a biger factor on damage than you might think. But maybe the +8 in accruacy is a little much. We will see!
Could msisle speed be added in the armory as a stat? As it is quite important I think and the current stats don't give a complete overview of how the bows differ. Thrust speed would also be nice but probably included in the Fire Rate so less inpactful.
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
Could msisle speed be added in the armory as a stat? As it is quite important I think and the current stats don't give a complete overview of how the bows differ. Thrust speed would also be nice but probably included in the Fire Rate so less inpactful.
Yeah thats the plan, I hinted at it in my big patch thread. Right now we display the "length" of the bow, which is literally just how long it is, so not super helpful, except for assassins maybe
 

Danny5

Sergeant at Arms
Great! But shouldn't thrust speed be called draw speed? I was a bit confused about it cause when I first saw that, I thought you could use it as a melee weapon. Whoops 😅
 

Tiedemannj

Regular
WBWF&SVC
The speed rating for the superior bow that is displayed is wrong. Fire rate should be 89 not 94. I didnt update it after doing my fixes to it it seems.
These are the stats for the bows:
NameMissle SpeedAccuracyBase DmagaeThrust Speed
Fast Short Bow (faster)618846125
Short Bow (range)709046100
Superior Bow (accuracy)659845100
Fast Short Bow = Faster Bow perk weapon for Empire+Aserai+ Khuzait light archer
Short Bow = Range Bow perk for Empire+Aserai+ Khuzait light archer
Missle Speed = How fast the arror is, that you are releasing
Thrust Speed = How fast you draw back the string of your bow


Having 1 less Base Damage and less missle speed, is actually a biger factor on damage than you might think. But maybe the +8 in accruacy is a little much. We will see!
This makes more sense. Feels like the choices are meaningful again. Thanks for answering

I have one more question tho. Do missile speed contribute to damage in addition to the base damage or is it already factored into the damage stat?
 

NIN3

Level Design, Combat Design
Developer
NW
This makes more sense. Feels like the choices are meaningful again. Thanks for answering

I have one more question tho. Do missile speed contribute to damage in addition to the base damage or is it already factored into the damage stat?
Missile speed itself does not impact damage, but since damage also depends on the relative speed of the victim in regards to the missile, it can lead to higher damage.
On the other hand, since the speed is higher, the damage drop off is obviously higher (more noticeable), so it kinda balances out.
 

Tiedemannj

Regular
WBWF&SVC
Missile speed itself does not impact damage, but since damage also depends on the relative speed of the victim in regards to the missile, it can lead to higher damage.
On the other hand, since the speed is higher, the damage drop off is obviously higher (more noticeable), so it kinda balances out.
Thanks for answering. Keep up the good work @NIN3 :smile:
 
Different missile speeds should not exist in my opinion. It messes up muscle memory because you cannot really distinguish them and there is not feelable feedback. Bows and Crossbows could have different speeds, since they are so different, but not bows that look and feel almost the same. And when patches change them your muscle memory has to be changed which is even harder. Maybe im creating a problem where none exists but this is always in my mind.
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Different missile speeds should not exist in my opinion. It messes up muscle memory because you cannot really distinguish them and there is not feelable feedback. Bows and Crossbows could have different speeds, since they are so different, but not bows that look and feel almost the same. And when patches change them your muscle memory has to be changed which is even harder. Maybe im creating a problem where none exists but this is always in my mind.
This is a reason I never wanted to invest into fast release pre this patch. From a limited look at new perks, some of the more optimal ones (on its own, muscle memory notwithstanding) might be fast release (need to double check though) so this dynamic could become relevant again. If its an actual problem? Would need testing over some weeks probably.

First impressions: Think it should be alright.
 

Horatius

Banned
WBNWVC
Missile speed itself does not impact damage, but since damage also depends on the relative speed of the victim in regards to the missile, it can lead to higher damage.
On the other hand, since the speed is higher, the damage drop off is obviously higher (more noticeable), so it kinda balances out.
Is missle speed accounted for in base damage?

As for missile speed in general I think I would prefer something like 4 difference speeds. 1 for light xbow, 1 for heavy xbow, 1 for short bow, 1 for long bow.
This gives the flexibility of different missile speed but doesn't cause to have 15 different kinds of drop-offs and cause frustration.

@Einarcf would this be preferred?
 
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