Suggestions

[VariousArtist]

Ahh, well I suppose that is a solution.  The current plan though, is to make it harder to raid villages not by making more villagers or giving them muscle, but by making the owners come and drive you away.

Goddamit, you cant believe how long I was waiting for something like this! I really couldnt understand why MB was left in such a broken state... Right now it seems they only care for the damn v1.0, not for us who already own the game. Anyway, if you get this fixed you are my lv25 hero! =)

Just want to point out that not all of the stuff thats posted here is BK related. Dont forget that ashes has to fix much of the stuff thats broken or unplayable in vanilla, too! Especially the sieging- and AI-stuff is total rubish in vanilla.

 

[SnoeiSchaaR]

Very nice thinking cause right now raiding villlages is just a standard procedure to get free food for most of us, time to change that right 

 

[Volsung]

Hey ashes just saying I love mod. I have a couple suggestions that I think might be kind of cool.

1) Give the player the option to create his own player faction troop tree.

For example, I personally enjoy playing on foot with a foot army. It would be really cool if I could have my own faction troops that are more geared towards foot combat, or the other way around if I enjoy using mounted troops.

I'm thinking this could be implemented a number of ways.

First, maybe have the types of troops you can recruit from a town/castle/village could governed by an improvement you build. Say for example, you build a garrison in a castle or village. Maybe then you can visit the garrison and then pay for upgrades for better trained/different kinds of troops. Recruits would be available all the time. Militia, Footmen, and Skirmishers would require a garrison be built in order to train. But then maybe you would have to build a fletcher's shop to train crossbowmen and sharpshooters, or an armorer to train infantry and sergeants, or stables for calvary, etc. Maybe even an academy to train captains/lords.

Second, As far as training troops in the field or in battle, their advancement tree would be determined by the highest level of training available at your "capital" or in your kingdom. Player Faction troops should be cheaper to field and to upkeep, as well as slightly better than other faction troops to provide an incentive to invest in training your own army instead of relying on mercenaries.

2) The option to buy a castle. Other NPC's already offer to buy yours, why can't you offer to buy theirs? This should be expensive though (15,000 - 25,000 denars?), but it would be a peaceful way to acquire land without going to war against a friendly faction.

3) I know it has already been mentioned, but the ability to store enemy lords/kings in your castle. Maybe you could make a dungeon a castle improvement too?

4) I don't think Borcha, Marnid, Rolf, and Ymira should be able to just die. It really takes long enough to get those guys to actually be useful, and I kind of enjoy upgrading them with full gear and stats in my image. Even though it takes a long time...I'm all for them being able to be captured (and you subsequently having to rescue them). But they tend to go down in just about every battle (especially early on!). It would really be a waste to deal with them if they could die. I think your trained captains/lords should be able to bite it, but they just don't have the same personal connection as those four retarded heroes do.

5) Lastly, could you make it easier to amass a large party? Maybe make the leadership skill and charisma contribute a lot more to the party size. It is kind of annoying only having a party of 100 when you're level 20, and seeing a parties of 1200 stroll around like its nothing.

Keep up the good work!

 

[pentagathus]

First I would like to say this is the best mod I've ever played. Ok it's the only mod I've ever played as well but..... . Anyway on vanilla M&B you can't put hero troops in you're castles so mabye that should be something to change.

 

[Ashes42]

Hey ashes just saying I love mod. I have a couple suggestions that I think might be kind of cool.

1) Give the player the option to create his own player faction troop tree.

This is in the works for the release after the AI update, my system is a little simpler, more clear-cut, and more efficient than the one you proposed, and I think you'll be happy when it comes out.

Player Faction troops should be cheaper to field and to upkeep, as well as slightly better than other faction troops to provide an incentive to invest in training your own army instead of relying on mercenaries.

NO, as a player you are not special, you do not get better troops, you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake.  Instead of your faction troops being stronger, your faction troops will be the ONLY troops you can recruit, ala right now the vaegirs can only recruit vaegir troops.  Of course you can turn enemy troops to your side and so on, but you recruit your own troops, and they are not special.

2) The option to buy a castle. Other NPC's already offer to buy yours, why can't you offer to buy theirs? This should be expensive though (15,000 - 25,000 denars?), but it would be a peaceful way to acquire land without going to war against a friendly faction.

Next release

3) I know it has already been mentioned, but the ability to store enemy lords/kings in your castle. Maybe you could make a dungeon a castle improvement too?

Release after next

4) I don't think Borcha, Marnid, Rolf, and Ymira should be able to just die. It really takes long enough to get those guys to actually be useful, and I kind of enjoy upgrading them with full gear and stats in my image. Even though it takes a long time...I'm all for them being able to be captured (and you subsequently having to rescue them). But they tend to go down in just about every battle (especially early on!). It would really be a waste to deal with them if they could die. I think your trained captains/lords should be able to bite it, but they just don't have the same personal connection as those four retarded heroes do.

Most likely Borcha Marnid et al. are going to disappear in the next patch.  Believe me though, the captains will be memorable characters, and you will be able to forge a connection with them.

5) Lastly, could you make it easier to amass a large party? Maybe make the leadership skill and charisma contribute a lot more to the party size. It is kind of annoying only having a party of 100 when you're level 20, and seeing a parties of 1200 stroll around like its nothing.

Yes, next patch I'm going to try and make max party size based on leadership charisma and renown (meaning it can go up)  The NPC will have the same limit as the player, and in the patch after next you'll be able to recruit troops in town and castles.


Thanks for the suggestions though ; )

 

[Neptune]

When the AI sieges castles, they seem to go about using the starvation method, of sitting there and waiting for 1-3 months to starve out a city/castle.  The sieges never finish, because they suffer attrition through caravan raids and relief efforts. 

Now, I've seen some rather large armies.  The Rhodocks do not have an army smaller then 300 men.  The Nords and Khergits have armies well above 700 men.  The castles have around 100 men defending them, probably less.  Is there any way for the AI to assault a castle?  7 to 1 odds favor the attacker in an assault over a siege.

Also, is there a way to get the AI to reinforce castles?  I take them, they get handed off, but the lords almost never garrison them.  The only time I've seen a castle garrisoned is when the lord visits it.

 

[gwharris]

Okay, this is something that's been percolatin' in my brain since I first started playing M&B a couple years ago.

I've always felt the recruitment/advancement mechanic in M&B is a little *too* abstracted.  All the recruits
cost 10d to equip, be they Vaegir Recruits with little equipment or a Khergit Tribesman with a horse.  Those
things cost more than 10d!  Also, promoting someone is free.  Who pays for the Swadian Man-at-Arms' horse? 
This is the kind of thing that bothers me.

I don't know if this is even possible to change.  I imagine you could change the recruitment costs of the various
village levies without too much trouble.  But could you assign a cost to advancing a troop to recognize the
difference in price between their old equipment and their new equpment?  I don't even know.  There's a
couple of ways you could do it: you could do a direct cash deduction, which would probably be harder,
since presumably you'd have to check how much cash a person has and all that other stuff.  One other
way to do it would be to just create a debt, as is created when you don't have enough cash to pay your
troops.  Then, when payday comes around, it's just added to your total expenses.  If you can't pay,
morale goes down, and troops start deserting with all that valuable equipment you paid for.

Of course, the main effect of this change would be a huge increase in expenses; such that having more than a
couple dozen troops would be practically impossible.  There'd have to be some balancing increase in income. 
Well, as it happens, that's *another* thing that bothers me.  Say you get in a fight and defeat a couple dozen
Steppe Bandits, for instance.  What happens when you get to the loot screen?  You get a bent lance, a
cracked kerghit bow, a tattered nomad armor, and, if you're lucky, a lame steppe horse.  Really?  That's it?

Poppycock!  You defeat a group of warriors, at least half their gear ought to be salvageable, and in pretty good
shape.  Now, with the current inventory system, it's not feasible to handle that much stuff, but there's no
reason you can't abstract that somewhat as well: just give the value of most of that loot in cash.  Say your troops
carried it out; you've certainly got enough manpower.

So, anyway, that's my big idea for improving Mount & Blade (I know it's not specific to this mod, but what the hey).
Make the whole bookkeeping system a tad more realistic.  Not real exciting, I know.

One big advantage to this is that it would make for new trade-offs between different troop types.  You want
Swadians?  Well, you're going to have to *pay* for all those horses, bub.  Makes Vaegir infantry a tad more attractive.

 

[DarkAnd]

Okay, this is something that's been percolatin' in my brain since I first started playing M&B a couple years ago.

I've always felt the recruitment/advancement mechanic in M&B is a little *too* abstracted.  All the recruits
cost 10d to equip, be they Vaegir Recruits with little equipment or a Khergit Tribesman with a horse.  Those
things cost more than 10d!  Also, promoting someone is free.  Who pays for the Swadian Man-at-Arms' horse? 
This is the kind of thing that bothers me.

I don't know if this is even possible to change.  I imagine you could change the recruitment costs of the various
village levies without too much trouble.  But could you assign a cost to advancing a troop to recognize the
difference in price between their old equipment and their new equpment?  I don't even know.  There's a
couple of ways you could do it: you could do a direct cash deduction, which would probably be harder,
since presumably you'd have to check how much cash a person has and all that other stuff.  One other
way to do it would be to just create a debt, as is created when you don't have enough cash to pay your
troops.  Then, when payday comes around, it's just added to your total expenses.  If you can't pay,
morale goes down, and troops start deserting with all that valuable equipment you paid for.

Of course, the main effect of this change would be a huge increase in expenses; such that having more than a
couple dozen troops would be practically impossible.  There'd have to be some balancing increase in income. 
Well, as it happens, that's *another* thing that bothers me.  Say you get in a fight and defeat a couple dozen
Steppe Bandits, for instance.  What happens when you get to the loot screen?  You get a bent lance, a
cracked kerghit bow, a tattered nomad armor, and, if you're lucky, a lame steppe horse.  Really?  That's it?

Poppycock!  You defeat a group of warriors, at least half their gear ought to be salvageable, and in pretty good
shape.  Now, with the current inventory system, it's not feasible to handle that much stuff, but there's no
reason you can't abstract that somewhat as well: just give the value of most of that loot in cash.  Say your troops
carried it out; you've certainly got enough manpower.

So, anyway, that's my big idea for improving Mount & Blade (I know it's not specific to this mod, but what the hey).
Make the whole bookkeeping system a tad more realistic.  Not real exciting, I know.

One big advantage to this is that it would make for new trade-offs between different troop types.  You want
Swadians?  Well, you're going to have to *pay* for all those horses, bub.  Makes Vaegir infantry a tad more attractive.

Do you ever woundered why we aways get all that bent/rusty/cracked stuff from the loot?
our troops get the loot, and we get what they didn't pick up.

 

[Spongly]

I agree with this last post - the game represents medieval warfare by and large, so troops are going to be paying for their own equipment. What's much more unrealistic is that a bunch of unarmed peasants become mounted plate armoured knights within a few days of fighting. But when a lord does have a group of knights he would expect them to have their own horse and their own armour, not to be popping down the shops to buy it for them.

 

[Ashes42]

Okay, this is something that's been percolatin' in my brain since I first started playing M&B a couple years ago.

I've always felt the recruitment/advancement mechanic in M&B is a little *too* abstracted.  All the recruits
cost 10d to equip, be they Vaegir Recruits with little equipment or a Khergit Tribesman with a horse.  Those
things cost more than 10d!  Also, promoting someone is free.  Who pays for the Swadian Man-at-Arms' horse? 
This is the kind of thing that bothers me.

I don't know if this is even possible to change.  I imagine you could change the recruitment costs of the various
village levies without too much trouble.  But could you assign a cost to advancing a troop to recognize the
difference in price between their old equipment and their new equpment?  I don't even know.  There's a
couple of ways you could do it: you could do a direct cash deduction, which would probably be harder,
since presumably you'd have to check how much cash a person has and all that other stuff.  One other
way to do it would be to just create a debt, as is created when you don't have enough cash to pay your
troops.  Then, when payday comes around, it's just added to your total expenses.  If you can't pay,
morale goes down, and troops start deserting with all that valuable equipment you paid for.

Of course, the main effect of this change would be a huge increase in expenses; such that having more than a
couple dozen troops would be practically impossible.  There'd have to be some balancing increase in income. 
Well, as it happens, that's *another* thing that bothers me.  Say you get in a fight and defeat a couple dozen
Steppe Bandits, for instance.  What happens when you get to the loot screen?  You get a bent lance, a
cracked kerghit bow, a tattered nomad armor, and, if you're lucky, a lame steppe horse.  Really?  That's it?

Poppycock!  You defeat a group of warriors, at least half their gear ought to be salvageable, and in pretty good
shape.  Now, with the current inventory system, it's not feasible to handle that much stuff, but there's no
reason you can't abstract that somewhat as well: just give the value of most of that loot in cash.  Say your troops
carried it out; you've certainly got enough manpower.

So, anyway, that's my big idea for improving Mount & Blade (I know it's not specific to this mod, but what the hey).
Make the whole bookkeeping system a tad more realistic.  Not real exciting, I know.

One big advantage to this is that it would make for new trade-offs between different troop types.  You want
Swadians?  Well, you're going to have to *pay* for all those horses, bub.  Makes Vaegir infantry a tad more attractive.

I've actually already thought this problem over, and not come up with a good solution yet.  I have come up with you have to have the gear to recruit the next tier up, or some monetary fee.  (Even if they pay for their own stuff, they have to have access to the stuff somehow.)  In any case, its waiting until I get a little further along, but I want to do something about it.  Next version has higher tier troops costing a lot more though, so it may be unnecessary.

 

[Brutus]

in reply to M&B wealth distribution.  I think the battlefield plunder is as you would have expected, but M&B lacks some of the higher wealth generating activities usually available to the lords/leaders of armed forces in that time period.

- Most ruffians for hire fought for plunder and did not receive enough "salary" to motivate them to world-crossing campaigns.  Leaders of such groups often received little of the battlefield plunder they did not themselves grab. 

The battlefield was where troops made their wealth.  Lords made their money looting households (cartloads of prizes too big for troopers) and most rich by capturing and ransoming other lords - prisoners that they usually let keep their armor.    

If you think about your pay as a king's servant, you don't get squat either.  You get the "opportunity" to get rich.  It's the same for your warriors.

And troops didnt upgrade their equipment for the benfit of their lord, they did it to help themselves survive and get more plunder the next time.

- Pirates and bandits usually had a "shares" setup where the captain got the equivalent of 5 men's loot, his 2nd in command got 3 men's shares, etc - something like that. 
If you think of M&B as the "shares" thing, it works out pretty much.  You get a couple ok things, then the second round gives you the rusty second pickings.
If Bandit King is to be pirates/bandits I'd leave it as-is.

- If the more mercenary/knight setup sounds more in tune with Bandit King, I would recommend:
same battlefield loot setup as M&B
surrending lords (needs AI)
captured lords
ransom negotiations
Ransom fees and "borrowing from banks" to escape from captivity
Rescue attempts by the lords family? 
blood feuds/revenge when lords are killed (not really part of the money thing but might be interesting)


 

 

[King Yngvar]

Shot down
-More hero followers.  (Band of Warriors)

About that, I find the rangers feature from BoW more important to include. It would let you customize the appearance of your army. You can dress all your experienced troops up in heraldic armour for example.
If this is in Bandit King, then I just have not found it.

 

[PocketAces]

In regards the the aids dilema.

* Have the aids gain double the normal xp from training etc.
or
* level up when you do.
* Aids gain double the skill points, raising INT would give you 3 skill points.

 

[accuser]

here are a couple of ideas that Ive been brewing for some time...

1, Being able to recruit soldiers from towns and castles

2,Making villages to evolve into towns of some sort? For example: once the village is rich enough or/and has enough population or something as such, they would start building real defenses against invasions and so forth.

 

[nox]

Well, getting back to the original focus -

Recruitment changes were and are one of the main things that were originally intended with this mod - it just turned out to be very complex and comprehensive, and I held off on it due to fears of armagan fixing his system - which appear to be unfounded.

Basically the core of my idea was this - that castles would have a thing that can be developed which permits the player to generate a new kind of soldier - the professional soldier.

The entire concept behind this mod from the beginning was the player not following the 'rules' that the NPCs did.  It represented the player as an opportunist born not of noble blood, leading through necessity, desperation, opportunity, vengeance and brutality - whatever it took to gain and keep power - and if I did the mod correctly the player would have many ways to achieve his ends, and those ways would themselves have costs that the player had to choose if he was willing to bear.

The NPCs are all kings, they have rules, they have honor and are only willing to accept other leaders as peers who are of 'noble birth', i.e. they control absolutely who can play their game.  This mod is about breaking those rules, and the end-game of this mod is about having ALL of the NPCs turn on the player and the player having tools the NPCs do not. 

My original idea was that the player change the game from one of recruiting peasants, to employing soldiers.  That the player would take men and hand them over to his castles to be retrained.  The player represents something new, and that novelty is Empire.  The calradians have gunpowder, they just refuse to use it on the battlefield because it upsets the social order.  The player will have the choice of researching and employing gunpowder, at the cost of his political life.

The bandit king explores the concept of Napolean.  A man not of noble birth who through necessity and drive carves his own destiny with powder, saber and intrigue.  That was the uiltimate goal of this mod, to give M&B an end game of the creation of Empire, because that's the game *I* wanted to play. 

 

[SPQR]

That game sounds pretty amazing.  I look forward to playing it.

 

[Neptune]

After playing v 1.003 for a while now (no sleep for me last night) I must say I'm rather disappointed.  It still has an 'unfinished' feel to it, like the fact you have more upgrade options for some run down village, but the same two options for your castles and towns.  And the poor dialog interacting with the tavern keeper.  To that end, I have several suggestions to put more polish on this 'finished' game:

1.  Make it so you are able to store your heros in the castle.  I loved that in .960, if Borcha can't get along, send him to a castle to cool off.  They should be in the lords hall when you visit, so you can talk to them.
1a.  Heros stored in the castle/town should act like lords, raising troops for the castle/town defense (from the taxes of the castle and associated villages).  Maybe it's even possible to assign them oversight of castles/towns, so they are in fact 'lords'.
1b.  Give the hero's the ability to range around the map on their own.  If they can raise their own troops, and they can follow orders, you can have several war bands follow you around, and finally be able to amass enough troops to deal with the large war parties that roam around.

2.  Be able to hire deserters (maybe even bandits).  If they're in it for the money, why not offer to hire them?  The higher your renown, the more willing they are to join with you.  Also, you can't have gone around slaughtering deserters and outlaws, so a good relation with them is vital.

3.  More upgrade options in castles, towns and villages.  castles and towns should have barracks and armories to bring in fresh troops and equip them.  storehouses to extend how long they can resist a siege.  fairgrounds to improve morale, gallows to improve discipline.  Villages should get an armory so they can raise their own militias, or fight with something more dangerous them a rock and scythe.

4.  Attrition casualties during sieges.  Both sides are going to be shooting at targets of opportunity, and someone isn't going to remember to keep their head down.  Also, siege engines should be a buildable option, like ladders, to generate casualties on the opposing side (increase number of attrition casualties). 

5.  Not sure how ethical this would be, but a dungeon master who you can tell to interrogate prisoners for intelligence.  Maybe it's possible so the higher the tier of the soldier interrogated, the more accurate the information is.  The prisoner may or may not survive.  Probably not, dead men tell no tales.

6.  Audience seekers.  You visit your castle, and waiting for you are people who seek an audience for their problems.  Merchants and villagers complain about bandits.  Officers complain about discipline issues, soldiers complain about inept officers.  Town elders present village problems, guildmasters present town problems, etc.  Something to make it so you are more like a medieval lord ruling a village or town or castle.

 

[Sibilance]

^^These are fantastic ideas, and I want them to be in Native so bad. Ashes and nox, please oh please: mod as fast as you can!

(Now if they'd just get the module system out for 1.0...)

 

[Neptune]

Another suggestion for the dungeon master:

1a.  When you talk to him, he tells you what prisoners are willing to join you, and you can recruit them right there into your town/castle garrison or party.
1b.  You can tell the dungeon master to recruit among the prisoners, and he responds with who is willing to join you, after maybe an hour or two delay.

 

[Mitsuhide]

Nice ideas Neptune, the best part being that as far as my knowledge goes most of it is possible. And with the new module system taking it's time who knows what new features could be supported in mods.

Mitsuhide.