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I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but sorry if someone has.

Will there be a multiplayer gamemode that allows players to command a group of bots, like the Commander Battle mode in Napoleonic Wars? The ability to coordinate would make battles much more interesting, and even fully historic in terms of multi-unit formations and battle tactics. Large singleplayer battles will get...dull pretty quickly. :???:
 
Incoming superhuge wall of text.

Having played about 5 hours so far with a variety of builds, there are some balance issues I have come accross. Now this is with the mindset of someone who thinks a variety of fun playstyles should be possible and every playstyle should be somewhat counterable. I am not sure how that compares to the 'more realism' mentality I have come accross so far, but currently having a gun and a 2h is by far the easiest way to compete. My ingame name has been Franzibald by the way.

Guns
- Guns are too accurate, people are having sniping battles at 80 meters distance, early 16th century guns did not have this accuracy, not even close. Seriously, you are so far from the mark with the current gun accuracy. Now if you're all up in the historical realism of things, you should know about the low number of firearms in early 16th century armies and their accuracy compared to bows and crossbows, the dangers to the user and the high cost of the weapons. Honestly, if a gun is used without heavy skill point investment in both proficiency and powerload, there should probably be a chance for it to blow up in your face. This level of accuracy also makes classes without a gun fairly unviable, from a gameplay perspective. There is very little reason to not take a gun, which does not reflect this time period correctly.

- Guns deal too much damage. Arquebuses have one shot me at all occassions I believe, pistols quite often too. I think you should differentiate between limb shots and body shots. Getting a lead bullet in the leg should deal much lower damage and be doable to survive, at least for a while, hence soldiers eventually using breastplates only as armour. More importantly though, arquebuses didn't have very high muzzle velocity and the round projectiles lost a lot of damage at range, which I currently don't see reflected in the mod either. Now as upkeep is fairly rough so far, I don't know how they interact with heavy armour, but with a damage value of 99 blunt I can imagine they tear straight through it.

Two-handed
- 2h swords are way too fast while dealing comparatively good damage. Once again, perhaps when upkeep is tweaked, the higher damage 80 speed polearms might be able to hold a candle to the 98 speed Estoc, but currently the faster 2h weapons are very OP. Still, even if people wear armour, the 2h swords have good pierce stabs. That is without mentioning the 1h weapons, which are around 90 speed with terrible damage values. Now, realistically 2h swords are fast, but they arent 5-10 speed rating faster than 1h swords or properly balanced polearms like spears or hafted blades. Currently the amazing 2h animations combined with amazing stats means that 2h weapons can blatantly spam most other weapons, even with no wpf. I have a character that has a shield, but not for a moment did I consider taking anything else than a bastard sword. The speed differences are simply too large.

Shields
- Shields are not at all a viable counter to guns. I was told a steel shield could reliably block bullets, so I specced a character with 5 resistance. Everytime it takes a bullet the icon shows a little crack. Which means that about 4-5 bullets will most likely break it, which isn't a lot if you are talking a 12 vs 12 battle, let alone more if this mod takes off. Worse than that though, the coverage of the steel shield is absolutely terrible, and I have been shot past or below my shield a few times. Which makes it rather pointless as you can't get close to an arquebusier because your legs become a huge target. There should be better coverage on your shield, otherwise guns will have no counter. Going to try a Board Shield later, but I expect it to break very quickly. Cav is obviously not the counter with this level of damage and accuracy and the inherent weaknesses of early guns aren't represented either. Aside from that playing a shielder is rather gimped through the complete terribadness of 1h weapons. Rodeleros were used to some effect in the era, so they were probably historically a little more effective than currently ingame.

Sprint
- Sprint is gamebreakingly fast, though I hope you are already aware of this too. I like the functionality and the impact it has on combat, but the top speed is past Usain Bolt levels and the acceleration is near instant. It completely breaks cavalry, as doing any turns or slowdowns near any players that have sprint will result in getting hit, and it is a source for easy kills for those who abuse it. While humans can accelerate quickly and run quite fast, you gotta imagine you are carrying **** in your hands and wearing armour. Also, not everyone is Usain Bolt. Lower the top speed significantly and reduce the acceleration so it takes about 4 seconds to reach top speed. Otherwise I think it adds some flavour to combat. Sprint is so far the only good counter to guns it seems, though only when there is only one.

Upkeep
- Upkeep is way too rough, though I believe you are aware of this. The era of warfare you are dealing with had fairly organized and well equipped armies and mercenaries, with plate armour being the norm. Plate armour stopped dead on hit gunshots reliably at long distance, and could deal with poorly angled ones up close. In all cases damage was neglible or significantly reduced. Heavy armour should probably be the norm. Currently I don't think I can get much more heavy gear than like 1000 total cost. Some decent half plate costs 2000 and that is without any weapons. With heavier armour all the specialized tincan openers like bills, hammers and poleaxes would start to play a role.

Skills
- So far I have found the impact of most skills fairly insignificant. Having 6 athlethics does not seem to make me very fast, nor does 0 powerstrike make me seem very weak. Having 0 wpf seems very viable and I don't feel super fast with 140. I think this is good in one way, it keeps builds realistically comparable, as humans won't hit twice as hard or run twice as fast as other humans, but it also seems to allow a very high degree of specialization without getting punished for completely ignoring other parts of your build.

Low visibility gameplay
- Night is too dark, dark to the point that there is no point in playing during real life daytime if it is night ingame, at least for me. If cRPG has taught me one thing, it is that low visibility play, be it fog or night, is just not really fun in the eyes of anyone.



So the bottomline is, guns and 2h are overpowered to the point there is hardly any other way too play, even though I have tried very hard to find it. This is bad from both a realistic and a good gameplay perspective. Perhaps reduced upkeep will have some changes on this balance of classes, but I suspect direct balancing is required.

Apart from all that I think you got off to a good early start. You guys pulled a lot of other mods into this and it provides quite a nice experience altogether. As a huge fan of the time period I hope to see more items for it soon and I will definitely play it now and then. The grind is quite easy, you get money for gear quickly if you go cheap and you can use as much builds as you can. Also low level or low skill investment builds are quite effective at killing stuff anyway, so you can compete fairly quickly. I do dig the powerload skill and misfires as a way to balance agi build arquebusiers, that is quite cleverly done. You got some pretty cool looking maps, although many are oversized for the current playerbase. I love the visual mods, lightning is epic. XP and gold seems to depend fairly heavily on performance which is great. I wish you the best of luck in getting through the early stages and I hope you can gather some players.
 
Really nice post, here's what I think about it:

SgtTeeh said:
Guns
- Guns are too accurate, people are having sniping battles at 80 meters distance, early 16th century guns did not have this accuracy, not even close. Seriously, you are so far from the mark with the current gun accuracy. Now if you're all up in the historical realism of things, you should know about the low number of firearms in early 16th century armies and their accuracy compared to bows and crossbows, the dangers to the user and the high cost of the weapons. Honestly, if a gun is used without heavy skill point investment in both proficiency and powerload, there should probably be a chance for it to blow up in your face. This level of accuracy also makes classes without a gun fairly unviable, from a gameplay perspective. There is very little reason to not take a gun, which does not reflect this time period correctly.

- Guns deal too much damage. Arquebuses have one shot me at all occassions I believe, pistols quite often too. I think you should differentiate between limb shots and body shots. Getting a lead bullet in the leg should deal much lower damage and be doable to survive, at least for a while, hence soldiers eventually using breastplates only as armour. More importantly though, arquebuses didn't have very high muzzle velocity and the round projectiles lost a lot of damage at range, which I currently don't see reflected in the mod either. Now as upkeep is fairly rough so far, I don't know how they interact with heavy armour, but with a damage value of 99 blunt I can imagine they tear straight through it.
Firearms are too accurate and deal too much damage. The pistol and arquebuses should get an accuracy and damage nerf.

SgtTeeh said:
Two-handed
- 2h swords are way too fast while dealing comparatively good damage. Once again, perhaps when upkeep is tweaked, the higher damage 80 speed polearms might be able to hold a candle to the 98 speed Estoc, but currently the faster 2h weapons are very OP. Still, even if people wear armour, the 2h swords have good pierce stabs. That is without mentioning the 1h weapons, which are around 90 speed with terrible damage values. Now, realistically 2h swords are fast, but they arent 5-10 speed rating faster than 1h swords or properly balanced polearms like spears or hafted blades. Currently the amazing 2h animations combined with amazing stats means that 2h weapons can blatantly spam most other weapons, even with no wpf. I have a character that has a shield, but not for a moment did I consider taking anything else than a bastard sword. The speed differences are simply too large.
A lot of weapons are not viable because of their speed. Playing with anything under 85 is pretty much a suicide unless it has a great range. Most heavy weapon should get a speed up.

SgtTeeh said:
Shields
- Shields are not at all a viable counter to guns. I was told a steel shield could reliably block bullets, so I specced a character with 5 resistance. Everytime it takes a bullet the icon shows a little crack. Which means that about 4-5 bullets will most likely break it, which isn't a lot if you are talking a 12 vs 12 battle, let alone more if this mod takes off. Worse than that though, the coverage of the steel shield is absolutely terrible, and I have been shot past or below my shield a few times. Which makes it rather pointless as you can't get close to an arquebusier because your legs become a huge target. There should be better coverage on your shield, otherwise guns will have no counter. Going to try a Board Shield later, but I expect it to break very quickly. Cav is obviously not the counter with this level of damage and accuracy and the inherent weaknesses of early guns aren't represented either. Aside from that playing a shielder is rather gimped through the complete terribadness of 1h weapons. Rodeleros were used to some effect in the era, so they were probably historically a little more effective than currently ingame.
Shields are under powered the fact that there is not force field is nice but a round shield should at least protect your upper body. At the moment a ranged can hit you in the head/shoulder/arms/legs and hip at the same time when you are holding an Elite cavalry shield. This should not be possible, it should at least protect one part of your body at a time (upper or lower part). I'd like to see a global forcefield of maybe 10% added to the game so the rounds shield can do that.
Then regarding the damage on shield done by firearm, yes it's too much.

SgtTeeh said:
Sprint
- Sprint is gamebreakingly fast, though I hope you are already aware of this too. I like the functionality and the impact it has on combat, but the top speed is past Usain Bolt levels and the acceleration is near instant. It completely breaks cavalry, as doing any turns or slowdowns near any players that have sprint will result in getting hit, and it is a source for easy kills for those who abuse it. While humans can accelerate quickly and run quite fast, you gotta imagine you are carrying **** in your hands and wearing armour. Also, not everyone is Usain Bolt. Lower the top speed significantly and reduce the acceleration so it takes about 4 seconds to reach top speed. Otherwise I think it adds some flavour to combat. Sprint is so far the only good counter to guns it seems, though only when there is only one.
Sprint could be made less surprising, but we'll wait until most players get used to it. You can check the actual speed with the speed meter in the game menu (by pressing C) and it's far from Bolt.

SgtTeeh said:
Upkeep
- Upkeep is way too rough, though I believe you are aware of this. The era of warfare you are dealing with had fairly organized and well equipped armies and mercenaries, with plate armour being the norm. Plate armour stopped dead on hit gunshots reliably at long distance, and could deal with poorly angled ones up close. In all cases damage was neglible or significantly reduced. Heavy armour should probably be the norm. Currently I don't think I can get much more heavy gear than like 1000 total cost. Some decent half plate costs 2000 and that is without any weapons. With heavier armour all the specialized tincan openers like bills, hammers and poleaxes would start to play a role.
We've lowered upkeep two days ago and I think it's fine for battle (mostly). The two problems remaining are the sieges and short round (arena). Short round have few ticks and same upkeep as long rounds and sieges have high upkeep because you die a lot.
We're working on a gold reward based on how fast a team win to fix the short round issue, for siege I think we'll just divide it.

SgtTeeh said:
Skills
- So far I have found the impact of most skills fairly insignificant. Having 6 athlethics does not seem to make me very fast, nor does 0 powerstrike make me seem very weak. Having 0 wpf seems very viable and I don't feel super fast with 140. I think this is good in one way, it keeps builds realistically comparable, as humans won't hit twice as hard or run twice as fast as other humans, but it also seems to allow a very high degree of specialization without getting punished for completely ignoring other parts of your build.
Maybe it's because most people are low level. We'll see with more time.

SgtTeeh said:
Low visibility gameplay
- Night is too dark, dark to the point that there is no point in playing during real life daytime if it is night ingame, at least for me. If cRPG has taught me one thing, it is that low visibility play, be it fog or night, is just not really fun in the eyes of anyone.
Hard to say, some people have darker screen and lower gamma.

Apsod is is our balancer, he made a good work starting to balance our 700+ items few months ago. Balancing is hard and we need players experience to do it so thanks for the post.
 
romicus said:
Should be fuses for the grenades imo. Would make them alot more balanced, even if they are expensive.

Yes ! We planed to do it a while ago. Not sure if we forgot or if it's still under development.

Anyway, grenade will get fuse time.

McEwanMaster77 said:
I haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but sorry if someone has.

Will there be a multiplayer gamemode that allows players to command a group of bots, like the Commander Battle mode in Napoleonic Wars? The ability to coordinate would make battles much more interesting, and even fully historic in terms of multi-unit formations and battle tactics. Large singleplayer battles will get...dull pretty quickly. :???:

At the moment bots (between factions) are not balanced at all, we would need someone to work on that first.
 
Having played with a Board Shield now, it seems that shields can counter firearms. It covers pretty much the entire body and I haven't been shot while I had my shield up once. It breaks in about 4-5  arquebuse shots though, but with 10 vs 10 that isn't even a big problem. I even blocked a cannon grape shot with it once.
 
GuiKa said:
romicus said:
Should be fuses for the grenades imo. Would make them alot more balanced, even if they are expensive.

Yes ! We planed to do it a while ago. Not sure if we forgot or if it's still under development.

Anyway, grenade will get fuse time.

Awesome.

Also, nerf horse bump. It's ****ing awfull, I have been 1hit by a bump twice in a row, AND I DIDN'T EVEN SEE THE ****ING HORSE BEFORE LIKE 2 SECOND AFTER I DIED.
 
Horse bumps. Prepare for the wall of text.

One one hand, they are very powerful at the moment, and can at speed inflict a lot of damage, which I, from a realistic perspective, can only encourage. On the other hand, perhaps damage is a tad too high. However, what I want to adress here is the reflective bump damage. The damage a horse receives when riding into any character, without that character actually doing anything to attack the horse. With a hunter, a decent and rather expensive horse, it is easily possible to receive reflective bump damage equal or greater to 40% of the hunter's total health, while also causing a bleeding effect. While usually reflective bump damage lies aroun 5% health per person you ride over, these hits also have the possibility to trigger bleeding. This makes playing cavalry very expensive and very annoying.

As a cavalrist you pay upkeep for your horse dependant on the amount of damage it takes while you are mounted. The fact that you take ridiculous amounts of damage with a decent and expensive horse such as a courser or hunter when riding over people, one of the main advantages of having a horse, makes using one very inefficient cost-wise. Only armoured horses do not take any form of reflective bump damage, but their repair cost is so high it is beyond consideration to use them frequently in a battle.

Currently as a result of this cavalry is punished for playing as cavalry through increased repairs and a system that deals a seemingly random amount of damage to their horse every time they use it for more than running away from enemies, namely, engaging people. This is both infuriating for both the cavalryman as the infantrist, as the mounted soldier gambles half of his horse's health every time he runs over a footman, only encouraging him not to do it, and stay away, and use ranged weapons from horseback instead.

I understand that the mod wishes to take a realistic approach to things, but as things are currently with this reflective bump damage, I must say that I feel that a horse in-game is more like skittish deer than a mighty steed. Alright, they inflict rather large amounts of bump damage, but the same massive and sturdy horses weighing 500-1000kg dependant on breed that in this mod accurately inflict painful amounts of damage apparently also receive major injuries from running over comparably flimsy creatures such as us, humans. Not only that, they have a rather large chance to receive a major bleeding that saps their health from running over these weak creatures. I think that this reflective damage is an attempt to balance the high bump damage through realism, but that it's way too far-fetched and annoying of a mechanism to be of much use. It is indeed possible that a horse receives injuries from running over a man, be he armoured or not, but as portrayed currently in the mod, that seems to be rule rather than exception, which is most certainly not the case in real life.


Let me summarize;

- Reflective bump damage deals up to 40% of a 'heavy' unarmoured horse's health in a single hit, while also being able to cause bleeding damage over time.
- Due to the way how upkeep works, reflective bump damage makes unarmoured 'cheap' horses a lot more expensive, because they can take such large amounts of damage from bumping players.
- From a perspective of realism the idea is unplausible at best.


So, for the love of God, do something about it. I personally would like to see reflective bump damage completely removed, since including a mechanic at all that gives horses a random chance to receive damage when bumping someone would in fact translate in someone being bumped having a certain chance to receive double the amount of trample damage if we apply the same logic. If the horse has a random chance of being seriously wounded, let the footman have a chance of being actually trampled (a chance that is far greater in real life than the former) and take grievous amounts of damage. A random punishing mechanic like this serves noone, especially if it has such severe effects on only one of both parties such as currently. I personally wish to see the mechanic removed, or at least severely hampered so that it does not have a major effect on gameplay anymore. It makes no sense that after having a streak of bad luck and after running over two players in peasant rags wielding wooden sticks and having lost over 2/3rd of a hunter's health, not including bleeding damage, forcing you into repairs and to completely adapt your playing style for the rest of the round.


tl;dr

Reflective bump damage is a random and punishing mechanic that serves no real purpose except as a strange and undesired balancing mechanic for bump damage. It ruins gameplay and drives cavalry players into repairs, and for this it should be either removed entirely (random punishing mechanics are no good feature in general) or heavily nerfed, so it does not influence gameplay nearly as much as it does now.




And adressing the inevitable footman wine that will be a reaction to this (I have already received less proper remarks when talking about this issue in-game, where people incurred righteous wrath of the Divine because I was using a horse etc)

Pretty much every horse is extremely fragile already to (random sprint-)attacks from two-handed swords that just about everyone uses. Trample damage is indeed high, but unless you are caught either unaware or completely alone on a flat open plain, it is easy to avoid being trampled.
 
I've recently noticed that the flag of the Ottoman Empire is actually incorrect, not a big deal but it would be better to use the correct one instead in my opinion.

Flag_of_the_Ottoman_Empire_%281517-1844%29.svg

(I'll also leave a link down here about the flags of the Ottoman Empire if you want to confirm it.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

 
Roran 13 said:
Horse bumps. Prepare for the wall of text.

One one hand, they are very powerful at the moment, and can at speed inflict a lot of damage, which I, from a realistic perspective, can only encourage. On the other hand, perhaps damage is a tad too high. However, what I want to adress here is the reflective bump damage. The damage a horse receives when riding into any character, without that character actually doing anything to attack the horse. With a hunter, a decent and rather expensive horse, it is easily possible to receive reflective bump damage equal or greater to 40% of the hunter's total health, while also causing a bleeding effect. While usually reflective bump damage lies aroun 5% health per person you ride over, these hits also have the possibility to trigger bleeding. This makes playing cavalry very expensive and very annoying.

As a cavalrist you pay upkeep for your horse dependant on the amount of damage it takes while you are mounted. The fact that you take ridiculous amounts of damage with a decent and expensive horse such as a courser or hunter when riding over people, one of the main advantages of having a horse, makes using one very inefficient cost-wise. Only armoured horses do not take any form of reflective bump damage, but their repair cost is so high it is beyond consideration to use them frequently in a battle.

Currently as a result of this cavalry is punished for playing as cavalry through increased repairs and a system that deals a seemingly random amount of damage to their horse every time they use it for more than running away from enemies, namely, engaging people. This is both infuriating for both the cavalryman as the infantrist, as the mounted soldier gambles half of his horse's health every time he runs over a footman, only encouraging him not to do it, and stay away, and use ranged weapons from horseback instead.

I understand that the mod wishes to take a realistic approach to things, but as things are currently with this reflective bump damage, I must say that I feel that a horse in-game is more like skittish deer than a mighty steed. Alright, they inflict rather large amounts of bump damage, but the same massive and sturdy horses weighing 500-1000kg dependant on breed that in this mod accurately inflict painful amounts of damage apparently also receive major injuries from running over comparably flimsy creatures such as us, humans. Not only that, they have a rather large chance to receive a major bleeding that saps their health from running over these weak creatures. I think that this reflective damage is an attempt to balance the high bump damage through realism, but that it's way too far-fetched and annoying of a mechanism to be of much use. It is indeed possible that a horse receives injuries from running over a man, be he armoured or not, but as portrayed currently in the mod, that seems to be rule rather than exception, which is most certainly not the case in real life.


Let me summarize;

- Reflective bump damage deals up to 40% of a 'heavy' unarmoured horse's health in a single hit, while also being able to cause bleeding damage over time.
- Due to the way how upkeep works, reflective bump damage makes unarmoured 'cheap' horses a lot more expensive, because they can take such large amounts of damage from bumping players.
- From a perspective of realism the idea is unplausible at best.


So, for the love of God, do something about it. I personally would like to see reflective bump damage completely removed, since including a mechanic at all that gives horses a random chance to receive damage when bumping someone would in fact translate in someone being bumped having a certain chance to receive double the amount of trample damage if we apply the same logic. If the horse has a random chance of being seriously wounded, let the footman have a chance of being actually trampled (a chance that is far greater in real life than the former) and take grievous amounts of damage. A random punishing mechanic like this serves noone, especially if it has such severe effects on only one of both parties such as currently. I personally wish to see the mechanic removed, or at least severely hampered so that it does not have a major effect on gameplay anymore. It makes no sense that after having a streak of bad luck and after running over two players in peasant rags wielding wooden sticks and having lost over 2/3rd of a hunter's health, not including bleeding damage, forcing you into repairs and to completely adapt your playing style for the rest of the round.


tl;dr

Reflective bump damage is a random and punishing mechanic that serves no real purpose except as a strange and undesired balancing mechanic for bump damage. It ruins gameplay and drives cavalry players into repairs, and for this it should be either removed entirely (random punishing mechanics are no good feature in general) or heavily nerfed, so it does not influence gameplay nearly as much as it does now.




And adressing the inevitable footman wine that will be a reaction to this (I have already received less proper remarks when talking about this issue in-game, where people incurred righteous wrath of the Divine because I was using a horse etc)

Pretty much every horse is extremely fragile already to (random sprint-)attacks from two-handed swords that just about everyone uses. Trample damage is indeed high, but unless you are caught either unaware or completely alone on a flat open plain, it is easy to avoid being trampled.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe your horse takes damage based on how much armor the person you ran over is wearing.

Also, from the patch v0.555 - (GuiKa) halved horse charge damage
 
iK_Foppit said:
Roran 13 said:
Horse bumps. Prepare for the wall of text.

One one hand, they are very powerful at the moment, and can at speed inflict a lot of damage, which I, from a realistic perspective, can only encourage. On the other hand, perhaps damage is a tad too high. However, what I want to adress here is the reflective bump damage. The damage a horse receives when riding into any character, without that character actually doing anything to attack the horse. With a hunter, a decent and rather expensive horse, it is easily possible to receive reflective bump damage equal or greater to 40% of the hunter's total health, while also causing a bleeding effect. While usually reflective bump damage lies aroun 5% health per person you ride over, these hits also have the possibility to trigger bleeding. This makes playing cavalry very expensive and very annoying.

As a cavalrist you pay upkeep for your horse dependant on the amount of damage it takes while you are mounted. The fact that you take ridiculous amounts of damage with a decent and expensive horse such as a courser or hunter when riding over people, one of the main advantages of having a horse, makes using one very inefficient cost-wise. Only armoured horses do not take any form of reflective bump damage, but their repair cost is so high it is beyond consideration to use them frequently in a battle.

Currently as a result of this cavalry is punished for playing as cavalry through increased repairs and a system that deals a seemingly random amount of damage to their horse every time they use it for more than running away from enemies, namely, engaging people. This is both infuriating for both the cavalryman as the infantrist, as the mounted soldier gambles half of his horse's health every time he runs over a footman, only encouraging him not to do it, and stay away, and use ranged weapons from horseback instead.

I understand that the mod wishes to take a realistic approach to things, but as things are currently with this reflective bump damage, I must say that I feel that a horse in-game is more like skittish deer than a mighty steed. Alright, they inflict rather large amounts of bump damage, but the same massive and sturdy horses weighing 500-1000kg dependant on breed that in this mod accurately inflict painful amounts of damage apparently also receive major injuries from running over comparably flimsy creatures such as us, humans. Not only that, they have a rather large chance to receive a major bleeding that saps their health from running over these weak creatures. I think that this reflective damage is an attempt to balance the high bump damage through realism, but that it's way too far-fetched and annoying of a mechanism to be of much use. It is indeed possible that a horse receives injuries from running over a man, be he armoured or not, but as portrayed currently in the mod, that seems to be rule rather than exception, which is most certainly not the case in real life.


Let me summarize;

- Reflective bump damage deals up to 40% of a 'heavy' unarmoured horse's health in a single hit, while also being able to cause bleeding damage over time.
- Due to the way how upkeep works, reflective bump damage makes unarmoured 'cheap' horses a lot more expensive, because they can take such large amounts of damage from bumping players.
- From a perspective of realism the idea is unplausible at best.


So, for the love of God, do something about it. I personally would like to see reflective bump damage completely removed, since including a mechanic at all that gives horses a random chance to receive damage when bumping someone would in fact translate in someone being bumped having a certain chance to receive double the amount of trample damage if we apply the same logic. If the horse has a random chance of being seriously wounded, let the footman have a chance of being actually trampled (a chance that is far greater in real life than the former) and take grievous amounts of damage. A random punishing mechanic like this serves noone, especially if it has such severe effects on only one of both parties such as currently. I personally wish to see the mechanic removed, or at least severely hampered so that it does not have a major effect on gameplay anymore. It makes no sense that after having a streak of bad luck and after running over two players in peasant rags wielding wooden sticks and having lost over 2/3rd of a hunter's health, not including bleeding damage, forcing you into repairs and to completely adapt your playing style for the rest of the round.


tl;dr

Reflective bump damage is a random and punishing mechanic that serves no real purpose except as a strange and undesired balancing mechanic for bump damage. It ruins gameplay and drives cavalry players into repairs, and for this it should be either removed entirely (random punishing mechanics are no good feature in general) or heavily nerfed, so it does not influence gameplay nearly as much as it does now.




And adressing the inevitable footman wine that will be a reaction to this (I have already received less proper remarks when talking about this issue in-game, where people incurred righteous wrath of the Divine because I was using a horse etc)

Pretty much every horse is extremely fragile already to (random sprint-)attacks from two-handed swords that just about everyone uses. Trample damage is indeed high, but unless you are caught either unaware or completely alone on a flat open plain, it is easy to avoid being trampled.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but I believe your horse takes damage based on how much armor the person you ran over is wearing.

Also, from the patch v0.555 - (GuiKa) halved horse charge damage

Charge damage is irrelevant from the person you bump; I have taken no damage at times running over tincans, while just today I suffered a whopping 80% reflective bump damage hit from riding over a knocked down footman (I just shot his horse) armoured with a cavalry robe (25 body armour).

When asked about the reasons for this, I was told that the reflective damage for unarmoured horses is there to give an incentive to take heavier armoured horses who do not, but I feel like I must state that in the history of mankind using horses for war, armoured horses were extremely rare, and still cavalry charegs were used to great effect. As a result I feel quite gimped when I take the most expensive and best unarmoured horse and have it take such ridiculous amounts of damage when trampling humans. It only gets worse when the chance to receive giant amounts of damage when bumping someone seems irrelevant of your speed, so that your horse can lose 40% hp from hitting a person at a canter.

About the halved charge damage, considering what I noticed in the patch so far, it is only the actual charge damage, and not the reflective charge damage horses receive when running over people.
 
The reflected damage is based on the charge damage(1/2 of it atm), the armor of the charged human doesn't matter.
But  anyway, I think of halving the reflective damage aswell.
 
So, played some more with a shielder build and I find it really expensive to keep up even with ****ty gear. I was using Heavy short axe, Horseman kite shield, tunic with green cap, rus shoes and leather gloves. Before I was also using a hood, but I found out that I would go slightly in minus. My suggestion is to make upkeep for 1h's and shields abit cheaper (and make 2h and polearm upkeep abit more expensive)
 
1. I really want to see the sprint speed to be reduced.
It is kind of unrealistic that people can nearly run as fast as cav even if you use the sprint for horses.

2. Another thing i want to be see changed is the charge damage made by horses, people who get run over by plated chargers seem to have no problem getting ride over for like 3 times even at max speed.
I suggest to increases the horse damage by amounts that players can not survive more than 2 bumps, in exchange increase the damage polearms do to horses to make them more attractive and in addition slightly increase the upkeep for horses to reduce its use as only the rich people back in the 16th were able to afford them.

3. I am not sure what the devs intend with the retirement but it kind of takes ages to reach higher levels.
I suggest to increase the amount of bonus exp gained by 3-5 times, it makes it more rewarding for players and may prevent thoughts of leeching. The gold amounts are fine to me and do not need any changes.

4. The mod should be posted in the steam workshop!
 


Crude hand-gun/cannon with some melee capability.

I imagine it a low-end ranged weapon with a melee secondary mode.

Please do not ask me about the stats, im just a creative player with a great imagination, not a balancer :smile:

 
Sniger said:


Crude hand-gun/cannon with some melee capability.

I imagine it a low-end ranged weapon with a melee secondary mode.

Please do not ask me about the stats, im just a creative player with a great imagination, not a balancer :smile:


Basically that is a handgonne, which is already in-game in the form of a short and a longhandgonne.
 
It seems like melee is a little off in this mod.  sometimes attack animations don't follow what is actually happening with your weapon, and feinting is sometimes impossible.  with some weapons when you swing left and then switch to right after you start an attack it will just carry through with the first attack instead.  it just doesn't work a lot of the time and it's really annoying. 
 
Roran 13 said:
Sniger said:


Crude hand-gun/cannon with some melee capability.

I imagine it a low-end ranged weapon with a melee secondary mode.

Please do not ask me about the stats, im just a creative player with a great imagination, not a balancer :smile:


Basically that is a handgonne, which is already in-game in the form of a short and a longhandgonne.


i see. i thought the handgonne was a firearm more like the ones in this clip (fictional movie but the firearms used is correct historically) - a musket with a fuse and not a spark (usally flint-stone) They were quite inpractical since they couldnt fire when they wanted but had to wait for the fuse to reach the powder. no, these firearms werent used for long time but they were indeed used. the flint-version took over relatively fast.


sorry its the best clip i could find. great movie, though fictional, the clothing, weapons and everything is pretty spot on historically.

(please by all means correct me if im wrong, all this is from the top of me head)
 
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