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Finnólfr, you must have missed posts like this one.

Fintan, we have our peeves just like anyone else and we all joined in of our own accord, not as part of some orchestrated effort.

Gibby, I will confirm what Hróða and Rǽda said. I was making a point about the tone and attitude. And I put ‘community’ in quotes simply because I don’t consider it that much a community exactly for reasons like this display right here.

Eiríkr, you’ve been going through my posting history; sure I’ve vented my frustration over certain aspects of the game/mod/player-base on occasion, but where have I scolded the developers over a patch?

Harkon, what.
 
Éadríc said:
Finnólfr, you must have missed posts like this one.

No I haven't. And I tell you more: I would consider that post offensive if written by a random user who just installed the mod and spit **** of it. Not from a player who is and always been of big support of Vikingr by his presence, help, suggestions and organisation.
I guess he is not in the dev team because of lack of technical knowledge, but I'm sure if he could he would have joined'em already. I'm not speaking for him now, it's just my thought.
I'm sure he has arguments to reply properly.

Also, we're all grown guys/men here. I'm sure no one will get upset because of a couple of *******.
 
Éadríc said:
Fintan, we have our peeves just like anyone else and we all joined in of our own accord, not as part of some orchestrated effort.

So are you denying the existance of the collective hive-mind? That sounds something that a collective hive-mind would say!

Ya but seriosly don't mind me. I just do things for lolz as I haven't gotten myself to do anything worth mentioning. I just think that people whould take their chill-pill and diss native a bit.
 
Fintan, there's no hive mind. We have our peeves just like anyone else and we all joined in of our own accord, not as part of some orchestrated effort.
 
Éadríc said:
Fintan, we have our peeves just like anyone else and we all joined in of our own accord, not as part of some orchestrated effort.
hrotha said:
Fintan, there's no hive mind. We have our peeves just like anyone else and we all joined in of our own accord, not as part of some orchestrated effort.
Huh?
I wouldn't insinuate the notion of a hive-mind, but this just struck me as odd. Possibly a joke, Hrotha?

Furthermore, I really think what has been criticised (apart from mere suggestions, whcih is the purpose of this thread) is simply the lack of acknowledgment and/or clear communication. Appreciation of the work and effort is beyond doubt, I guess.
However, I can understand resentment about posts like Celtic's.


 
Now, stop all the nonsense. Let's discuss what we individually think needs changing (/rolling back); that's what this thread is for.

- In my opinion horses needs to be more vulnerable again. Why?: Even before the patch horses were able to survive a javelin, now I'm almost certain a lucky horse can survive even two javelins and perhaps even a couple of spear stabs; doesn't make sense to me (again, natavism) - it was good as it was, no need to make horses into organic tanks.

- I also think that horse-bumping should be more punishing to the rider (maybe even also for the inflicted). I'd say, as has been suggested before, that it would be cool if horses would rear if they ride into people (or even before sometimes?) and occasionally throw the rider off. Otherwise the old solution was alright, definately better than all the relentless horse-bumping going on at the moment. Why?: Horses trample through the enemy almost just like in all other mods and native, contrast to what was seen before the most recent patch.

- I'd like to see the percentage of horsemen lowered again. Why?: If I understand correctly, first the horse reserved by the LC was removed, so that's one extra cavalry to begin with and additionally the percentage has been raised by 10-15%, meaning instead of one horse in seven (eight for the Normans) excluding the LC, we have one horsemen in three now (meaning also possibly two horsemen in five with a LC - EDIT: And three horsemen in six!). That's by no means a modest increase in horsemen.

- I'd still like to see archers rooted to the spot, but more importantly the time an archer can hold the bow drawn decreased (three seconds or thereabout would be reasonable in my opinion). Why?: Through playing as an archer a few times occasionally I was astonished by how casually an archer can draw his bow, aim (even move about), and release the arrow whenever it pleases him.

- I think, since the long axes has no block besides chamber, that they should be given the benefit of some pole-arms being able to hit the enemy from behind an ally. Why?: The long axes (Dane-axes) are effectively support weapons just like spears now (spears already have this ability with the overhand thrust), meaning they cannot easily work on their own. The increased damage against horses is a good thing, but I still think they need abilities to compensate their lack of blocking.


Alright, I'd like to hear what you guys think in these matters (I know that some of you have suggested these things already, I merely compiled my thoughts).
 
Thanks for returning to the contents, Thorkell. I haven't played the new patch enough for a proper judgement, but concerning the first two points of your suggestions, I think it was fine in the earlier version. As far as balance and power of the horsemen is concerned and also considering gameplay, the cav vs. inf -fights were thrilling as they were.
 
I agree with you Þorkell, and long dane axe shurely needs attack over allied warriors head, i have seen many times during viking festivals in my area those tall chaps swining their 2,2m axes, smashing enemies from behind their shieldwall, even  pulling out enemies shields and weapons, aspecially if axe is empty in the middle and looks like this:
dunczyk.jpg
 
horses needs to be more vulnerable again.
horse-bumping should be more punishing to the rider.
Agreed. I would maybe support a slight decrease in the chances of being thrown off your horse compared to 0.98, but I think the denerfing was too extreme in that regard. I would suggest having their HPs back to 0.98 levels, except for the LC horses which would be slightly stronger than the best 0.98 horses. A horseman should never charge into a mass of organized infantry and expect to make it out alive.

I support the cheaper cavalry spears that were introduced in 1.00. I think if you want to make cavalry more effective, a good way to achieve it with 0.98 mechanics would be to make their throwing weapons more accurate. Have them behave more like infantry throwing weapons.
percentage of horsemen lowered again
Agreed. The change is too extreme and it makes proper infantry clashes virtually impossible when fighting against Rus and, to a lesser extent, Normant. They simply don't have enough infantrymen, and their cav makes things too chaotic. Víkingr's strong point is organized infantry fights. With the current limits, with 10 people as Rus you can have 2 archers, 5 horsemen (4 boyarin + 1 mounted leader), and... 3 infantrymen. In 0.98, you'd have 1 archer, 3 horsemen (2 boyarin + 1 mounted leader, or 3 boyarin) and 6 infantrymen. The change is massive.

The other suggestions involve introducing new mechanics. I'd support them, but I'm not sure they'd fall within the scope of a subsequent hotfix.
Hengist said:
Huh?
I wouldn't insinuate the notion of a hive-mind, but this just struck me as odd. Possibly a joke, Hrotha?
Okay, I get it. I hereby retire from the field of comedy.  :sad:
 
Dansk viking said:
- I think, since the long axes has no block besides chamber, that they should be given the benefit of some pole-arms being able to hit the enemy from behind an ally. Why?: The long axes (Dane-axes) are effectively support weapons just like spears now (spears already have this ability with the overhand thrust), meaning they cannot easily work on their own. The increased damage against horses is a good thing, but I still think they need abilities to compensate their lack of blocking.

I am no expert, but this would strike me as hard to implement. I see more unfortunate teamkilling then supporting this way. I would rather make 2h axes more like a individual weapon, being able to block. It is still hard enough to fight 1 on 1 with a daneaxe because of the close range script wiffing.

All else I agree totally, as before. :razz:
 
Well blocking with Long Dane axe is  very hard, and little mistake makes you dead, also man who is charging at you with a shield is almost unstopable if you have no friend with shield to defend you from him. And why would  it provoke more teamkiling? It could work as a spear with over thrust (those work well if you aim above the shield and then pull the axe back, grappled shield makes open space to hit) but in the mod its imposible to do, so i think it should do as a spear wchich destroys the shield in 3 or four thrusts.
 
Bolvark said:
Well blocking with Long Dane axe is  very hard, and little mistake makes you dead, also man who is charging at you with a shield is almost unstopable if you have no friend with shield to defend you from him. And why would  it provoke more teamkiling? It could work as a spear with over thrust (those work well if you aim above the shield and then pull the axe back, grappled shield makes open space to hit) but in the mod its imposible to do, so i think it should do as a spear wchich destroys the shield in 3 or four thrusts.

There is what I meant, I guess it is to hard to implement. And the margin for error might be to slight, more likely splitting your teammates skull then your enemies. But if it works, you won't hear me ofc.

Also I am thinking about a gamemode for some larger groups. We are never enough for a siege, but surely we should be able to think about something for 20+ games :neutral:
 
Well it would be very nice to see things like grappling shield  done with long axe in the game, but as we all know Hengwulf warband is warband, and things we think will work, sometimes simply dont or couse crushes, so I see Your point.
 
Actually it's much easier to block with a dane axe than with a spear.  You have a rather long blade to parry with and the top of the axe is great for catching swords, I actually think it's the main reason why it was shaped like that (and of course thrusts work perfectly with a dane axe too). You can see such a block in this video. Timed blocking would seem a good way to represent that.
 
I totaly agree with You Dragomir, and the thing i still dont get in Vikingr is that you can defend yourself with smaller double handed axes, while with biger ones, with thicker handle you cant. I dont know if it is so for balance or what ever else, but in real fight from what i have seen its totaly oposite way, couse smaller 2h axes leave you smaller distance to your enemy, and they have much less mobility than 1h axes or swords. It happens often that axe will stuck in a shield and then you are so close to your enemy that you wont even have time to get your saex in hand before being cuted into pieces.
 
Blocking should indeed be brought back to longaxes as I believe it was originally removed from them for balancing purposes. A just cause, but removing the block simply isn't how this matter should be dealt with. I daresay it's easier to deflect a strike with a solid, thick wooden pole than with a thin iron blade!

That said, a nice weapon to implement in the future may be the Dane axe with a smaller axehead. It'd be more of a pick on a 1,5-2m pole really, with the metal part weighing a mere 280 grams. I've tried one myself, and it weighed absolutely nothing but was still extremely deadly! Great for pulling shields away and driving the foe mad with feigned attacks. The thickness of the pole could change that, but there is much fun to be had with such a lethal, light weapon though I fear that it could be degraded to a lolpike. People tend to resent fast (pole)weapons with a good reach in Warband.

Thank you for sharing that video, Dragomir. The bear hug and seax combo put a smile on my face.  :smile:

Edit: Increasing the class limit would be appreciated. It's not even funny anymore.
 
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