Suggestions

[Phalanx300]

So when the **** is this stupid, ridiculous ****ing Native-inspired patch going to be ****ing fixed?

- Cavalry and archers increased, why!?

- Horses take more damage, why!?

- Stupid, unlogical prices and stats for new weapons, why!?

Yes just earlier there was a team of 7 players with 3 horses. Doesn´t feel like Vikingr anymore.

 

[hrotha]

I think everyone needs to take a chill pill, first of all. You have to word things carefully because you're not criticizing the work of some faceless corporation, but effectively of your own mates, who worked very hard on this. A bit of tact goes a long way.

 

[Éadric]

The members of the ‘community’ need to take a moment and check their ridiculously large sense of entitlement.

This is not a democracy. The developers are your not elected representatives. Neither are you paying customers. They are not selling you a product. You have not been wronged or swindled – there was no injustice.

Any ‘investment’ by the ‘community’ pales in comparison to the insane amount of work done voluntarily and free of charge by the developers. You owe them much, much more than they owe you. So even if you think they dropped the ball on this or any patch, have some respect.

 

[Æscwine of Essex]

I would just like to note that the developers of mods don't get paid and usually have limited time because they also have real-life matters like a job and/or study.
So cursing at them because they didn't do what you said or whatever else you feel unhappy about seems a bit misplaced. Instead you could congratulate them with what has been done and improved. Of course you are allowed to give criticism, but remember that we do this out of free will. So it might just be a little bit more likely for things to happen if you would approach it in a more constructive and positive way.
And of course there is also always the option to offer your help as well. Like I said, time and manpower is limited.

Well you exaggerated a bit with this post Barabas. Vikingr community always supported the devs team and have always been thankfully for every fix/patch/hotfix released by them, this last patch included. The community always took part on the project with suggestions, providing new graphics and researches.
I think this is the first time some criticism has raised up by the community for a patch that has many good spots and some bad spots, and I haven't read any post that was uncostrusctive or vitriolic.
People who complained those bad spots are veterans of the mod, so I would refrain on telling to be more constructive and positive, because we're here since the very first release and I think you should know how much respect the community has for the whole devs team.

I don't think bas has exaggerated at all to be honest. All the devs have committed a serious amount of effort and their own personal time to developing this mod.. ( a mod we all enjoy for absolutely no cost) This is time when they aren't working of studying or dealing with their own personal lives. Right now there seems to be more complaints about the new patch over appreciation. It's not a massive games studio at work here.. It's our own fellow players who do it for love of the mod.. Requests from players and the community are accepted but not every request can be granted..

And regardless of how long someone has been a player it does not give them god like status. I have also been here for a long time and it's all the more reason why have have utmost respect for the amount of effort these guys have put into it.

 

[sotijalo]

First of all I want to make clear that I take no sides in this argument even thoug I think that there are some awesome addition and that this mod still needs some developement. Also our mods are adorable.

It just looks interesting how Fyrninga is united behind the mods and meanwhile some random people from different backgrounds who point some things they consider as "flaws and such". It's just how it feels that Fyrninga is controlled with collective hive-mind.

PS: All individuals of Fyrninga are cute and I appreciate their appearance. #nohomo

 

[PotatoPower]

The members of the ‘community’ need to take a moment and check their ridiculously large sense of entitlement.

This is not a democracy. The developers are your not elected representatives. Neither are you paying customers. They are not selling you a product. You have not been wronged or swindled – there was no injustice.

Any ‘investment’ by the ‘community’ pales in comparison to the insane amount of work done voluntarily and free of charge by the developers. You owe them much, much more than they owe you. So even if you think they dropped the ball on this or any patch, have some respect.

+1

 

[rapier17]

I think the problem is the changes the community didn't expect to be in the patch; read class limits, increased prices for Rus gear (is this a test to see how they do with revised costs?) and so on. You chaps have done a fantastic job in making the mod look great (best released MP mod in terms of visuals in my opinion) but it's the bizarre changes to the game that have confused (and indeed riled) some people. For example the balance of archers, cavalry & foot troops was great in 0.98. Now there are horses and archers everywhere, what feels like a 'Nativism' if you will. One of the great joys of Vikingr was that horsemen and archers were rare, were special, could dominate when used well but not available in such numbers as to dominate the mod utterly. The class limit alteration might feel like a minor thing to be annoyed at but it has a major effect on gameplay.

Also, no block for small spears? So even the last spear has had its ability to block removed... yay. Poor spears.

In other news, swords continue to dominate.

 

[hrotha]

Well, not everybody agrees that spears should be able to block - I for once think the gameplay is much better now that they can't. Same for other contentious issues. In my opinion the only real issue is the class limits, which is something that can be fixed via the server settings at any point anyway, and people are losing their perspective. I wasn't a giant 'f*ck you' to the community, simply an experiment to see whether it would work, giving more freedom to every individual player without affecting the gameplay negatively, so let's just play like this for a week or so, see beyond the class limits thing and try to spot stuff that would actually need fixing and that isn't a simple matter of personal preference, k?

 

[rapier17]

The spear thing is entirely a personal opinion, hence why I put it on a different line & worded it the way I did.

It's not outrage over something that can't or possibly won't be fixed, it's confusion that it was changed at all. There wasn't any reason given, at least that I saw, for it and experienced players of Vikingr could easily be asked to remember the days when cavalry were everywhere, when the Knyaz had a bow etc - there was a reason things were changed and limits imposed & altered originally and it's quite odd that they were changed with this patch.

 

[hrotha]

I know, I wasn't replying to you specifically.

The reasons for the change, I imagine, were what I mentioned. Sure, it would be nice if the devs had announced everything beforehand and we'd had a long, civilized debate about the pros and cons, but that wouldn't have been realistic. It would have stalled the release of the patch indefinitely and been a drain on their time resources. At the end of the day the devs felt it was worth a try, knowing full well that it could be reverted at any time without even needing a separate download. I honestly don't see the harm. I don't like the new class limits at all, but some people aren't being reasonable here.

 

[Gibby]

The members of the ‘community’ need to take a moment and check their ridiculously large sense of entitlement.

Seriously? This is a suggestions thread, where people from the community (which is what makes the mod survive) present ideas and thoughts about the way in which they think the mod needs changing to make it better and continue its survival. Some very long standing members have put forward very well written ideas and thoughts on various changes, and those well thought-out posts haven't even warranted a "duly noted" response from the developers. No one is denying how much hard work is put in by the devs, for free, but with a community as tight-knight and nice as the one of Vikingr it seems a shame that the developers no longer appear to be bothered about what aforementioned long-standing members of the community have to say. They don't even have to agree with the ideas and suggestions put forward, but the entire point of this thread surely is for a discussion of them. Changes that seem to have riled a lot of members were made without any apparent demand, and the changes that do seem to warrant a look haven't been remotely acknowledged. I think that's what's got people a bit annoyed, and if that manifests in a way that makes the community seem to have a bit of "entitlement" then that's just the way it is.

I love this mod, and very much appreciate the work put in by its creators and makers, but 99% of people in this discussion are saying what they say in an attempt to improve and nurture it, not to whine and get their own way. Frankly, the changes made with the last patch are more in danger of having Vikingr lose its identity.

As for "community" being in quotes, it seems like a bit of an attempt to question whether those giving suggestions really are valued members of such. Well, they are, and they are voicing their opinion because they care. The Fyrningas are a bit part of it but not the be-all-and-end-all of the Vikingr community.

 

[hrotha]

Pretty sure what Eadric is pissed about is the tone of several posts in this thread, which have been, quite honestly, very disrespectful. He's never said people shouldn't put forward and discuss ideas or criticize any changes to the game mechanics, just that being positively nasty to the developers crosses way too many lines.

The Suggestions thread has always been (in every game-related message board I've been to) the place where people would post their ideas and debate them with other players. The devs then read those discussions and draw their own conclusions.

 

[Leifr Eiríksson]

I know, I wasn't replying to you specifically.

The reasons for the change, I imagine, were what I mentioned. Sure, it would be nice if the devs had announced everything beforehand and we'd had a long, civilized debate about the pros and cons, but that wouldn't have been realistic. It would have stalled the release of the patch indefinitely and been a drain on their time resources. At the end of the day the devs felt it was worth a try, knowing full well that it could be reverted at any time without even needing a separate download. I honestly don't see the harm. I don't like the new class limits at all, but some people aren't being reasonable here.

Hroða, friend.
I don't think Leofwine (or anyone else for that matter) has been looking for some long well composed message of intent from Barabas and Moeckerkalfie. It's entirely a matter of communication on a simple level. I cannot (and do not) doubt their intentions with regards to Víkingr itself; I say this as a former developer whom introduced (albeit briefly) the infamous Knyaz horse archer, the Vikingr berserkr and a variety of other bad ideas that really should have never seen the light of day. Some things look great on paper and in concept but they often fail to work out when put to motion. Man, I wish I could forget those mental images of a mounted horseman pew-pew'ing everything (even Barabas was a vocal opponent to this) But everything is worth a try at some point, for sure*.
I do however now question their ability to effectively engage with the community on contentious issues. Éadríc** can bleat all day if he wishes but he's doing so to the wrong person [here]. It simply doesn't fly with a small community that delicate matters are quite brazenly thrown out of the window without as so much as a passing word.

Man, I've never asked much of Moeckerkalfie and Barabas. I've praised them and praised them with every patch release and update because it's what they deserve. But this is literally the first time I've been frustrated with an update and, when concerns are raised, they're either ignored by the target party or heckled by the loud minority. Constructive suggestions have been posted time and time again by a broad spectrum of players - rarely has any of it been acknowledged, this is no more apparent than with the latest release.

* Although at this late age in the mod, I do wonder if it was really worth fiddling with class limits.
** Having a read through Éadríc's early posts in the Víkingr subforum is really no different to what is occurring now.

 

[Harkon Haakonson]

It just looks interesting how Fyrninga is united behind the mods and meanwhile some random people from different backgrounds who point some things they consider as "flaws and such". It's just how it feels that Fyrninga is controlled with collective hive-mind.

Yup.

It's a suspicious issue really. Especially when you connect it to that post of Eadric where he confronted Eirikur for taking behind the curtains decisions regarding the direction of the mod and the overall community.
Maybe the Fyrningas are the "behind the curtains" testers of patches now and they feel more power or entitlement themselves now.

 

[Æscwine of Essex]

It's a suspicious issue really. Especially when you connect it to that post of Eadric where he confronted Eirikur for taking behind the curtains decisions regarding the direction of the mod and the overall community.
Maybe the Fyrningas are the "behind the curtains" testers of patches now and they feel more power or entitlement themselves now.

lolz harkon u so sillyz

 

[Rule zum Rabensang]

It's a suspicious issue really. Especially when you connect it to that post of Eadric where he confronted Eirikur for taking behind the curtains decisions regarding the direction of the mod and the overall community.
Maybe the Fyrningas are the "behind the curtains" testers of patches now and they feel more power or entitlement themselves now.

You know nothing, Harkon Snow.

As for "community" being in quotes, it seems like a bit of an attempt to question whether those giving suggestions really are valued members of such. Well, they are, and they are voicing their opinion because they care. The Fyrningas are a bit part of it but not the be-all-and-end-all of the Vikingr community.

Be assured, no one in the Fyrningas thinks that "we" are anything special in any community whatsoever. We're just a bunch of guys with similar interests who like each other and this mod.
I read Eada's "community" being in quotes more as some uncertainity whether the various people playing Vikingr can really be considered as a community as such.



I'd say there's coming up a bit too much drama for what actually happened. Anything changed with this patch could be changed back if it is found a real problem. Changing back the class limits wouldn't even need a patch, just adjusting the server settings. Further issues adressed by Eirikr and others that were not already considered by our beloved developers can still be taken into account with future patchs. Time heals all.

 

[Bedric]

I might be being a bit dim but aren't class limits just a server setting controlled at the Hrafnabjodr end rather than something to do with the patch?

The extra armours and textures etc were all fantastic.

I think cheaper helmets were a great idea; in my view everyone should start with a basic helmet for free.

Another nail in the coffin of spearmen is a bit disappointing but I do understand the majority of players are here for flashy looking sword fights and that's fine.

I remain hopeful that one day I'll be able to switch to seax without dropping my shield and giving away a free hit.

 

[C_Ronin_Rico]

I don't think bas has exaggerated at all to be honest. All the devs have committed a serious amount of effort and their own personal time to developing this mod.. ( a mod we all enjoy for absolutely no cost) This is time when they aren't working of studying or dealing with their own personal lives. Right now there seems to be more complaints about the new patch over appreciation. It's not a massive games studio at work here.. It's our own fellow players who do it for love of the mod.. Requests from players and the community are accepted but not every request can be granted..

I do think it instead. As said before no one was unrespectful to them and I can't see how you and your clanmates may say or think something like this. And for the second time i read this is not a massive studio or faceless company whatever. What's the point with this? We know each other since years and the most of us feels to speak what they think. Or do you want to pretend us to say everything is just fantastic for their personal pleasure?
We all will thankfull forever to every developer, researcher, graphic who put efforts, time and money for a passion shared among many, always. No doubt on this, and many of us mentioned about a lot of fantastic stuff introduced with the last patch. We were just discussing about some aspect of the game that get worse compared to the earlier version. What's bad with this?
This doesn't mean if something goes wrong I must shut my mouth because I owe'em respect. In my opinion it's a kind of respect to say how things are.

And regardless of how long someone has been a player it does not give them god like status. I have also been here for a long time and it's all the more reason why have have utmost respect for the amount of effort these guys have put into it.

This bothered me a little. Yeah, nobody has god like status here. You're right. Nobody.

 

[Æscwine of Essex]

I don't think bas has exaggerated at all to be honest. All the devs have committed a serious amount of effort and their own personal time to developing this mod.. ( a mod we all enjoy for absolutely no cost) This is time when they aren't working of studying or dealing with their own personal lives. Right now there seems to be more complaints about the new patch over appreciation. It's not a massive games studio at work here.. It's our own fellow players who do it for love of the mod.. Requests from players and the community are accepted but not every request can be granted..

I do think it instead. As said before no one was unrespectful to them and I can't see how you and your clanmates may say or think something like this. And for the second time i read this is not a massive studio or faceless company whatever. What's the point with this? We know each other since years and the most of us feels to speak what they think. Or do you want to pretend us to say everything is just fantastic for your personal pleasure?
We all will thankfull forever to every developer, researcher, graphic who put efforts, time and money for a passion shared among many, always.
This doesn't mean if something goes wrong I must shut my mouth because I owe'em respect. In my opinion it's a kind of respect to say how things are.

And regardless of how long someone has been a player it does not give them god like status. I have also been here for a long time and it's all the more reason why have have utmost respect for the amount of effort these guys have put into it.

This bothered me a little. Yeah, nobody has god status here. You're right. Nobody.

If you can't see how the devs would be upset by the way some of this criticism has been put across then I don't see the point in continuing the discussion with you. No one has asked you to "shut your mouth" no one. We have just pointed out that this could have been done with some more tact.

 

[Æscwine of Essex]

As for "community" being in quotes, it seems like a bit of an attempt to question whether those giving suggestions really are valued members of such. Well, they are, and they are voicing their opinion because they care. The Fyrningas are a bit part of it but not the be-all-and-end-all of the Vikingr community.

Be assured, no one in the Fyrningas thinks that "we" are anything special in any community whatsoever. We're just a bunch of guys with similar interests who like each other and this mod.
I read Eada's "community" being in quotes more as some uncertainity whether the various people playing Vikingr can really be considered as a community as such.



I'd say there's coming up a bit too much drama for what actually happened. Anything changed with this patch could be changed back if it is found a real problem. Changing back the class limits wouldn't even need a patch, just adjusting the server settings. Further issues adressed by Eirikr and others that were not already considered by our beloved developers can still be taken into account with future patchs. Time heals all.

How did the fyrningas even come into this discussion? Just because a few of us happened to individually commented on here. None of us even mentioned our clan!? Silly really...