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Hengwulf

Sergeant Knight
I love the new textures, the game looks a lot better, again. I don't really like the horse spam though. Also I was hoping a block for spears would be back, not removed. But it is still a good patch nonetheless. Best feature is the 'looser popup screen' to remind you to buy some better gear when your behind by 2 games. That really balances things better and makes for more rounds in a match.
 

C_Ronin_Rico

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWB
I join the guys complaining about the amount of horsemen a faction is able to put on the battlefield now. In my opinion, totally out of logic. I thought this mod was infantry based. It's always been. The noise of charging horses in the background last night made me think about native.

When lucky you kill both horse and horseman, if not it's only a pain in the ass to have that bunch of horses running and bumping everyone randomly (engine ignorance: instead of running away, the horse just gallops cheerfully through a melee).

Please fix it.

Other improvements (graphical especially!) are great, but yet I need to play more games.

Oh another thing:

loss of weapons/shields because of a bump. I don't have such knowledge about medieval weaponry and warfare as the most of you have, but I'm not totally ignorant on the matter. Probably I'm particulary unlucky but once again I lost my shield after the very first bump (caused by an horse) in the night. Lost my shield, no way to defend myself from 2-3 rabid opponents.
Now my point is: I'm pretty sure medieval warriors took in a lot of consideration how to protect themselves. Armors, helmets, gauntlets, boots and shields of course. Whether it was almost impossible to took off every body-protection mentioned above, a shield held by 1 hand was not difficult to loose. So I think they used to ensure it to their hand and forearm in order to avoid any loss of the shield occurred accidentally or not, using leather strings or what else.
So my thought is: how come it's so easy to loose it after a silly kick? My opinion is you just can't loose your shield after a simple kick. And the percentage of a loss from an horse bump should be lowered.

On the other hand, it should be much easier to loose your main weapon. But not the shield. To me it makes a difference.
 

RandomUsername

Master Knight
C_Ronin_Rico said:
loss of weapons/shields because of a bump. I don't have such knowledge about medieval weaponry and warfare as the most of you have, but I'm not totally ignorant on the matter. Probably I'm particulary unlucky but once again I lost my shield after the very first bump (caused by an horse) in the night. Lost my shield, no way to defend myself from 2-3 rabid opponents.
Now my point is: I'm pretty sure medieval warriors took in a lot of consideration how to protect themselves. Armors, helmets, gauntlets, boots and shields of course. Whether it was almost impossible to took off every body-protection mentioned above, a shield held by 1 hand was not difficult to loose. So I think they used to ensure it to their hand and forearm in order to avoid any loss of the shield occurred accidentally or not, using leather strings or what else.
So my thought is: how come it's so easy to loose it after a silly kick? My opinion is you just can't loose your shield after a simple kick. And the percentage of a loss from an horse bump should be lowered.

On the other hand, it should be much easier to loose your main weapon. But not the shield. To me it makes a difference.

That depends on the type of shield used. Round shields during the dark ages were hand-held, and could be dropped rather easily. Kite shields, on the other hand, were strapped to the forearm.

Would it be feasible to make it so only round shields could be dropped accidentally? I'm guessing not, but I'll wait until the devs come to share their worldly wisdom on the matter.
 

Phalanx300

Banned
Personally not a fan of buffing cavalry and changing to limits meaning more horses and archers. Infantry should be the main focus, I remember a long time ago when it was one cavalryman for every ten people on a team. Prefered those odds really above this. Now we have a cavalryman with a three man team.
 
RandomUsername said:
That depends on the type of shield used. Round shields during the dark ages were hand-held, and could be dropped rather easily. Kite shields, on the other hand, were strapped to the forearm.

Would it be feasible to make it so only round shields could be dropped accidentally? I'm guessing not, but I'll wait until the devs come to share their worldly wisdom on the matter.
The kite shield would also be used with a central grip due to the greater flexibility it offers and the greater ease of protecting ones self with a central grip shield. On horseback, however, when the reins need to be held, a shield strapped to a forearm makes more sense.

I'd be against making it so only round shields could be dropped accidentally. Leather straps can and will break, the rivets that hold them in place can come loose, the buckles that tighten the straps can break or allow the leather to come loose*. If possible, make it rare, but it should still happen.

*I've had all of the above happen to me whilst carrying a slung round shield - the leather strap broke once when I was tripped onto my back, which also wrenched a couple of the rivets loose, I've have the tooth in the buckle break and also had the leather slip free from the buckle, which is embarrassing when your shield suddenly falls from your back in the midst of a fight - I tended to prefer to use a spear on its own 1v1, preferring the shield in 2v2+.
 

RandomUsername

Master Knight
rapier17 said:
The kite shield would also be used with a central grip due to the greater flexibility it offers and the greater ease of protecting ones self with a central grip shield. On horseback, however, when the reins need to be held, a shield strapped to a forearm makes more sense.

Cool, I didn't know central-gripped kites existed.

Edit: I actually went and googled images of kite shields and saw a good number of them did indeed have central grips. Moreover, I had actually seen those pictures before. I can only wonder where my previous retardation stemmed from.  :lol:
 
The central grip was very much the infantryman's means of carrying a shield as it allows you to comfortably cover a 180º+ arc. Hold up your left hand in front of you, clench your fist as though you're holding the shield and move your arm to the left and right of your body, imaging you're holding a shield - see how much coverage you'd get? Now do the same but imagine you've a shield strapped to your forearm and try to do the same - it's more constrictive and won't provide as great an area of cover face on. However if you're shoulder first to an opponent in a formation your kite shield will still protect you rather nicely whether it's got a central grip or it's strapped to your arm.

The greater flexibility of a central grip shield is you can perform a couple of tricks with it - you can punch with it as well as slam it down onto knees, legs, feet or, if your opponent is on the ground, heads, necks etc. With a kite shield the best you can do is a 'slam', swinging the shield out into an opponent - punching with it would be weak, although you'd potentially be as good with shoving as a central grip shield user would in a scrum. Sadly the 'slam' leaves you wide open to the guy to your opponents left who will probably ram a spear through your torso or neck or face or groin. Fun stuff. You can also blind your opponent with a central grip shield, holding it out at arms length to hide what you're doing and closing down the majority of their lines of attack.

The great advantage of the shield strapped to the forearm is when you're on horseback. Your hand is free to grip the reins and because your kite shield will generally stay on your left-hand side*, you won't be moving it around that much, so having it strapped to the arm is a fine idea.

There are merits to both ways of carrying the shield, but generally central grip on foot, strapped to the arm on horseback - not that it can't be vice-versa.

*I'd not want to try moving a shield over to the opposing side whilst keeping my balance on a horse whilst it's moving and not getting tangled up with my weapon arm...
 

Celtichugs

Sergeant Knight at Arms
So when the **** is this stupid, ridiculous ****ing Native-inspired patch going to be ****ing fixed?

- Cavalry and archers increased, why!?

- Horses take more damage, why!?

- Stupid, unlogical prices and stats for new weapons, why!?
 

hrotha

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWWF&SVC
I agree that the class caps should be reverted to their 0.98 values, and seeing how it's now much more unlikely for horsemen to fall off I'd favour decreasing horsie HP's again, but I don't know what stats and prices of new weapons you're referring to.
 

Astolphus

Sergeant
NW
Celtichugs said:
Harkon Haakonson said:
He's probably referring to the new prices of swords.

No, not the swords. Guess again! :razz:

I suppose helmet + leather vest/light gambeson, at least the medium armoured guys' spam is disappointing me, maybe I only have to get used to it

One of the most positive things is the 2h axe anticav bonus, just amazing
 

hrotha

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWWF&SVC
Astolphus said:
Celtichugs said:
Harkon Haakonson said:
He's probably referring to the new prices of swords.

No, not the swords. Guess again! :razz:

I suppose helmet + leather vest/light gambeson, at least the medium armoured guys' spam is disappointing me, maybe I only have to get used to it.
That might be it. Personally I love the cheaper helmets, because they should be the first piece of armour anyone thought of getting. I don't mind the cheaper light armour, although the Norman light gambeson might be a bit too cheap.

Another possibility is that he's talking about the cheaper cavalry spears. Dunno.
 

jepekula

Count
M&BWB
Cheap new weapons.
I guess he is talking about what ever new weapons were added.
I myself have played this new version just once, and that was quite briefly before I had to go on a shieldbattle on Rome at War, so I do not really know what he is talking about.



But well, my first impression is a very good one, as was expected. I will play this a little more in the future and if I have anything to suggest I'll do so.
 

Mammoet

Master Knight
WB
I would just like to note that the developers of mods don't get paid and usually have limited time because they also have real-life matters like a job and/or study.
So cursing at them because they didn't do what you said or whatever else you feel unhappy about seems a bit misplaced. Instead you could congratulate them with what has been done and improved. Of course you are allowed to give criticism, but remember that we do this out of free will. So it might just be a little bit more likely for things to happen if you would approach it in a more constructive and positive way.
And of course there is also always the option to offer your help as well. Like I said, time and manpower is limited.
 
Constructive criticism was given by many people over the course of several weeks. Read on from the quoted post (May 2nd, or even earlier back in April). Unfortunately it seems that a blind-eye was turned... Hell, there wasn't even acknowledgement.

Leifr Eiríksson said:
Glad to know that absolutely nothing was achieved with regards to item statistics. The new patch is great, lots of nice items and fancy things, it certainly has a degree of being polished but I [we?] find that it's done nil to tackle the problems listed below. It's pretty ****in' ridiculous to increase the horse and archer limit when it was already a challenge to balance what we previously had in 0.98... What gives? Am I being purposely ignored?




Leifr Eiríksson said:
Still looking for some changes made to the ranged aspect of Víkingr. Leofwine and I made this thread detailing the problem last year but it was ultimately buried under a mountain of irritation and accusatory fingers. Some of that OP has now been made redundant; I think we did see a slight alteration in the archer:melee ratio and we did see some shuffling with regards to item selection. Other alterations (bows being dropped on weapon change) and fancy Moescripts have further impacted on the use of the bow in Víkingr. However, I'd like to pitch a few ideas with the current iteration of Víkingr in mind.
I'm not looking for a nerf of archery or any form of devaluing the class. I want to enforce a little more imagination and intelligent play in the class. It's very easy to exploit the game engine against the changes Víkingr makes as a mod overall.

  • Currently archers are free to walk around with an arrow nocked and the string pulled taut. Backpuddlin' and pulling off shots into the approaching axe-man should not be possible. Archer caught out in the open by the horseman? No problem, he's able to side-step (providing he is quick!) and release an arrow into the rider or the horse as they pass by. Root the archer to the ground when LEFT_CLICK is used and give him a reason to intelligently think of his positioning in the fight before the arrow is released.
  • ...draw, draw, draw, draw. Implement an extremely low chance of the string snapping on each use of the bow. Archers are free to continually pull back the string with no penalty until they choose to release the arrow. Spears have a low chance of breaking on weapon hit, it barely impacts upon the melee aspect of the mod but it does give a player some reason for concern if they're caught short. String can be replaced if the player is willing to forsake several seconds.
  • I would not be opposed to a slight increase of quiver size if the above are considered and implemented.


And a little something from earlier in the month.

Leifr Eiríksson said:
Here's a super-radical idea...

Still finding swords to be far too prevalent in Víkingr. They can be taken exclusively in the first round; a decent player (ergo; regular) will typically find no extra effort involved in scoring a few kills to sustain the silver. Hell; the Hersir sword can be taken on the first round. I would see them pushed out of reach of the first or second rounds with a cost increase across the board. The heavier pieces of armour generally only make an appearance if a team has had a good innings or if a player has absolutely decimated the opposing side (in rare instances) - yet they make their presence on the field of battle enough times to really make it count. It often feels to be an achievement of some kind (for the lower ranked classes) to wear mail; it should be like this for the use of a decent sword. There's a few players whom come to mind when I think of excessive and over-reliance on the superior nature of the weapon...



It was also briefly touched upon here (after the above post) that the return of blocking ought return to a select few items. I am of two minds here for I cannot decide if it is a sensible thing or not. I currently think spears are fine as they are and don't need any further tweaking (which is contrary to a lot of the sword folk :razz:) however I would be in the mind to see the dane-axes regain some form of functionality excepting the absolute largest of them.



As always, sensible comments and replies please. Take the time to read the post before rising ye're choler to the point of tears. I would appreciate something from Moeckerkalfie with what is being changed for the forthcoming patch with regards to item stats. I mean, whatever happened to things like this and this:razz:
 

Celtichugs

Sergeant Knight at Arms
Barabas said:
I would just like to note that the developers of mods don't get paid and usually have limited time because they also have real-life matters like a job and/or study.
So cursing at them because they didn't do what you said or whatever else you feel unhappy about seems a bit misplaced. Instead you could congratulate them with what has been done and improved. Of course you are allowed to give criticism, but remember that we do this out of free will. So it might just be a little bit more likely for things to happen if you would approach it in a more constructive and positive way.
And of course there is also always the option to offer your help as well. Like I said, time and manpower is limited.

I'm a big supporter of you and Moecker. I am a big supporter of modders all over the gaming world. Whatever the mod, whatever the game I will support the modder because:
Barabas said:
developers of mods don't get paid
They mod because of passion and love for a game, an idea or an era of history, whatever. I know this well, as myself was a modder once for Medieval II: Total War.

However, that, I'm afraid, is not and never will be an excuse for ideas, changes and developments that were never asked for or wanted by the Mod's community. Nor said developments not being atleast brought to the community's attention for discussion. Or, maybe you don't want to take things in the direction the community wants? That is fine, but listen to our suggestions:
Barabas said:
approach it in a more constructive and positive way

I guess some of us are just a little annoyed - read; more than a little - that we are continuously being ignored. We don't say things for the good of ourselves, we say it becouse we know it's a good idea and usually the community actually want it. Believe it or not, but some of us actually do our own research into our suggestions and idea, they don't just come out of no where.

Barabas said:
And of course there is also always the option to offer your help as well.

Myself and Cían (evulclown) of Fir Áraig, gave you and Moecker a long document which went into great detail the changes that we felt - and others of the community - were needed to the Goídil faction and smaller changes to the others. This was completely ignored. Even though it specifically asked for. Now, the issue is not that nothing was implemented, the issue is that neither of you gave reasons as to why it was not implemented.

Ultimately, what we want is: better communication from you and Moecker and reasons for changes so that we might better understand the changes that is happening to the mod we love.
 

C_Ronin_Rico

Sergeant at Arms
M&BWB
Barabas said:
I would just like to note that the developers of mods don't get paid and usually have limited time because they also have real-life matters like a job and/or study.
So cursing at them because they didn't do what you said or whatever else you feel unhappy about seems a bit misplaced. Instead you could congratulate them with what has been done and improved. Of course you are allowed to give criticism, but remember that we do this out of free will. So it might just be a little bit more likely for things to happen if you would approach it in a more constructive and positive way.
And of course there is also always the option to offer your help as well. Like I said, time and manpower is limited.

Well you exaggerated a bit with this post Barabas. Vikingr community always supported the devs team and have always been thankfully for every fix/patch/hotfix released by them, this last patch included. The community always took part on the project with suggestions, providing new graphics and researches.
I think this is the first time some criticism has raised up by the community for a patch that has many good spots and some bad spots, and I haven't read any post that was uncostrusctive or vitriolic.
People who complained those bad spots are veterans of the mod, so I would refrain on telling to be more constructive and positive, because we're here since the very first release and I think you should know how much respect the community has for the whole devs team.
 
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