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hrotha said:
Personally I wouldn't want the devs to waste any time on the giants. They're fine as they are, Mjölnir pendant and everything.
Either these giants have never heard of Þrymr's and his kin's fate or their minds are just twisted.
 

Tom426

Squire
WBWF&S
I noticed that you can no longer sheath bows or crossbows anymore, Crossbows i can understand this with, seeing as they are quite big and cumbersome, However bows are fairly easy to sheath, i havn't checked this historically, However i'm an archer IRL and you can easily carry a bow in one hand whilst fighting, Quite often some traditional style archers do put the bow on their back with the string around their chest (You see less of this IRL because people don't want to weaken their bows by stretching them like this). I believe most of the bows should be sheathable for historical accuracy.
 
:lol:

I'd love to see someone try and fight in a tightly pressed melee without their bow a) getting in the way or b) broken.

No bowman would risk the tool of his trade in a melee, too risky, plus anything that will hinder your fighting by getting in the way needs to be discarded before you start fighting. I say this as someone who's trained with Dark Age weaponry, who used to be a Dark Age reenactor, and have trained in several Western Martial Arts, including two forms of Italian rapier.

Tom426 said:
Quite often some traditional style archers do put the bow on their back with the string around their chest (You see less of this IRL because people don't want to weaken their bows by stretching them like this).
No, it's because the cord may snap and the bow could then be lost in the melee. It'd also be bloody uncomfortable. I used to get 'shield sores' when I was a reenactor, where the leather strap of the shield would rub against the neck whilst I was moving around. I'd get home from the weekends with a neck where half of it was inflammed, incredibly sore and utterly uncomfortable. I dread to think how horrible it would be to have a bow cord rubbing against my neck - so much friction in such a small area. Also think about that bowstave swinging about your legs as you're trying to move, with it shifting around as you do - I'd bet 2:1 it'd trip you over or the horn tips would stab you repeatedly in the calves and back of the knee.
 

Rule zum Rabensang

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
I'm a traditional archer too, and there is no way to fight with a longbow on your back (even less if it's only hold by the bowstring, and not sheathed in a canvas sack).
 

Nyah

Sergeant at Arms
WBWF&SNW
Well, but we are playing a game.
In my opinion you should be able to keep the things you bought. And not spreading them out all over the field. Also to block with 2h weapons. Even the point of beeing a supporter with spear or big axes is now lost in my eyes.
 

Phalanx300

Banned
Thats part of what makes this mod unique, no point in becoming more like native and keeping items attached to your back.

What I would like to see is to see the arrow bags on the hip, rather then on the back. As I´m pretty sure the former was the norm.
 

Rule zum Rabensang

Grandmaster Knight
M&BWBWF&SNW
Phalanx300 said:
What I would like to see is to see the arrow bags on the hip, rather then on the back. As I´m pretty sure the former was the norm.
Indeed. Besides, carrying the quiver/arrow bag on the back makes quick drawing of arrows a pain in the ass.
 
Nyah said:
Well, but we are playing a game.
In my opinion you should be able to keep the things you bought. And not spreading them out all over the field. Also to block with 2h weapons. Even the point of beeing a supporter with spear or big axes is now lost in my eyes.
When you're in a melee and you switch weapons, you don't waste time trying to put the previous one 'away' or somewhere safe, you discard it and draw your next weapon. Unfortunately, with 1H weapons, there is some give in this because when I went into a fight at reenactment I'd have spear, axe, sword, seax and then my shield and on occasion a javelin. That'd be 6 equipment boxes compared to Warbands 4.

The block on spears up to the long spear should be returned, and the same for the axes except for the Hedsmark & Long Hedsmark axes. Why? As I've said before it's an abstract means of making up for all the many wonderful things & tricks you can do with these weapons which are not represented in Warband & would be nigh on impossible to represent in a game (unless CLANG! can lead the way). You -can- block with spears in reality, not in the weird way Warband portrays parries (seriously, who'd stand UNDER an opponents strike with their weapon raised? You move to the side and deflect the blow away from your body), but you can do it and you can put your opponents weapons into a bind and feint/mislead your opponent and if they get in short you can shift your grip towards the tip of the weapon allowing you to manipulate the weapon even when you're up close to your opponent - the list does, in fact, go on.

I think people get too caught up on the parries in-game, thinking they solely represent a parry and not the many abstract things you can do with weapons. Bring back blocking for spears & the larger axes - if I can do it in reality, I should be able to do it in-game.
 

hrotha

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWWF&SVC
The unseatheable bows were added more because of gameplay and balance reasons than because of accuracy, I'd say, and the same would be true of the longer spears. Think of it as a non-realistic feature to produce a realistic result (spears used mainly in formation and as long as you can keep your distance to your enemy, not in close combat), just like the riders being thrown off their horses so easily.

I think the longer spears still work extremely well as support weapons though.
 
Still cheering on for more changes to the archery in Víkingr. It irritates me greatly to see archers moving about with an arrow drawn and the string pulled taut; archers ought be rooted to the spot [firearms in Deluge] when the string is drawn. I'd advocate the same for throwing weapons - how many of us here have been hit by a throwing weapon at absolute minimum range over the top of a shield? Backpuddlin' users of such weapons are a nuisance and do little to bolster the unique flavour of Warband that is Víkingr.

 

hrotha

Grandmaster Knight
WBNWWF&SVC
I agree about archers. Not sure about throwing weapons though, because the run-up before the throw feels intuitively natural.

(I've never thrown anything larger than a stick)
 
It might be possible to contain the throwing weapon to just a direct line. The Haraz have been playing quite a lot again lately; there are a few things that we've been brewing over and whatnot - will probably collate our suggestions by tomorrow night and post them up.

I'd really like to advocate that, if hesitancy for change is apparent, the current developers release a minor patch for testing purposes before the almighty v1.0 is hit. There's nothing to lose.
 
hrotha said:
I think the longer spears still work extremely well as support weapons though.
They do indeed, however they should be able to block as a abstract compensation for all the great things you can do with spears. I used to fight 1-1 with axe/sword wielders with my 9 foot spear (roughly equivalent to the Medium Spear) without a shield and could beat opponents - I once watched a member of Regia Anglorum, Keittle, take down 3 maille clad, helm wearing, sword/axe wielding opponents on his own, in one fight with all of them. Spears are killing weapons, not just support weapons. You can kill an opponent on your own with one just as well as you can with a sword or axe.
 
Phalanx300 said:
What I would like to see is to see the arrow bags on the hip, rather then on the back. As I´m pretty sure the former was the norm.
As Rǽdwulf already explained, drawing arrows is much faster when they are carried on the hip and not on the back. In fact sometimes archers stuck the arrows into the ground to be able to draw even faster during battle. Yet carrying the quiver on the back also has its advantages. It is much easier to move with such a quiver and you can do so much more silent. I do not know if this carrying method is historically provable anyway, but if people carried quivers on their backs, I believe they would have been hunters rather than soldiers.

rapier17 said:
The block on spears up to the long spear should be returned, and the same for the axes except for the Hedsmark & Long Hedsmark axes.
I absolutely agree with this due to the stated reasons. Most of a weapon's usefulness is lost when it is impossible to block with it. This is especially the case for weapons like spears which only offer one attack direction when used with a shield.

Leifr Eiríksson said:
Still cheering on for more changes to the archery in Víkingr.
You are not alone in this opinion, Leifr. But I do not only think that archery itself needs to be improved in Víkingr. The whole archery equipment requires an overhaul as well. Most, if not all, bows and quivers and perhaps even arrows are far from being as historically accurate as they should be.

Leifr Eiríksson said:
Before the almighty v1.0 is hit
the price system needs to be redone. Currently it is still utterly imbalanced.
 

Dragomir

Knight
WB
Hm, remember that video about insane archer guy that could shoot arrows like a machine gun? That was the actual historical shooting technique, also shown on Bayeaux tapestry (bows drawn only halfway, not to the cheek but lower). The archery you are talking about was designed for English longbows and shooting at great distances. I reckon viking archers were much more mobile, able to shoot in mid-run but had a lot less range. It's possible to walk with drawn bow in Vikingr, but it's barely possible to hit anything, as the reticle goes crazy then. Perhaps archers could get fixed in place after the bow is fully drawn, but it should also be possible to do running shots, of course with much less range, damage and precision then when you fully draw the bow. I don't say we should base Vikingr archery on that ancient saracen technique, but we should neither base it on longbow techniques or sport archery. They cared more about the speed of fire than accuracy or range - archers back then were more of skirmishers than snipers. That is also why I'd like to see them carrying a bit better melee equipment, maybe even small shields for Engle and Northmen archers.
I agree all quivers should be put on the hip though. We have a serious reason not to have swords sheathed on the back, I think we should take care of those arrows too.

For throwing weapons it would be neither realistic nor would it do any good to the gameplay. What I would really want to see though is their range massively reduced. It's too easy, they fly nearly in a straight line. I don't think even best olympians can throw javelins as far as Vikings in this mod. They should fall much sooner. That would also be a very good nerf, making it more difficult to aim.
 
OLAF BELIEVES LONG AXES SHOULD BLOCK, JUST BECAUSE IT MADE THEM NEAR USELESS. I CAN DO MY BEST TO USE IT AS SUPPORT. BUT TO SUPPORT, I NEED TO BE ABLE TO GUARD MY BUDDY!
 
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