[Suggestions] Make Executions viable

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caledoni

Sergeant
So I understand why 12 months ago executions were being overused by the player to compensate for game mechanics and thus, had to be nerfed. Now with the game in a far far better place can we have executions rebalanced so they are at least a viable option in some circumstances?

For example in my current Empire campaign I have a problem with the Eleftheroi destroying my caravans constantly. I have no answer to this. I'm talking 3 caravans within a week of starting all within a week of each other.All taken out by various Eleftheroi generals (who are not currently a member of any faction)

If I hunt them down and imprison them then they will eventually escape. How about letting me hunt them down and execute them? If they are destroying imperial caravans then they should be gaining negative relations with other imperial vassals so they shouldn't care. If they are wreaking my caravans then I shouldn't get negative traits for purely defending my interests.

The relation loss system is pretty brutal and random for executions. This is to the point that they would pretty much just as we be removed from the game rather than left in their current state.
 
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So I understand why 12 months ago executions were being overused by the player to compensate for game mechanics and thus, had to be nerfed. Now with the game in a far far better place can we have executions rebalanced so they are at least a viable option in some circumstances?

For example in my current Empire campaign I have a problem with the Eleftheroi destroying my caravans constantly. I have no answer to this. I'm talking 3 caravans within a week of starting all within a week of each other.All taken out by various Eleftheroi generals (who are not currently a member of any faction)

If I hunt them down and imprison them then they will eventually escape. How about letting me hunt them down and execute them? If they are destroying imperial caravans then they should be gaining negative relations with other imperial vassals so they shouldn't care. If they are wreaking my caravans then I shouldn't get negative traits for purely defending my interests.

The relation loss system is pretty brutal and random for executions. This is to the point that they would pretty much just as we be removed from the game rather than left in their current state.
+1
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
How about letting me hunt them down and execute them?
Currently in the game, they'll simply spawn new lords to the minor faction then continue raiding your caravans.

As an aside:
The relation loss system is pretty brutal and random for executions. This is to the point that they would pretty much just as we be removed from the game rather than left in their current state.
It isn't random.
If the victim had the dishonorable trait you suffer the following relations losses:
  • -30 with the victim's clan
  • -15 with the victim's friends
  • -5 with the victim's faction
Otherwise you lose:
  • -60 with the victim's clan
  • -30 with the victim's friends
  • -10 with the victim's faction
  • -10 with all honorable lords
 

caledoni

Sergeant
Currently in the game, they'll simply spawn new lords to the minor faction then continue raiding your caravans.
Ah ok. didn't know that.... guess this makes executions even more pointless

Hmm as for the penalty then fair enough, It's not random. It is pretty harsh though.

This specific situation could be improved slightly by making those that raid caravans gain the dishonorable trait? I'm not exaggerating when I say the Eleftheroi destroy constantly multiple caravans within days of creation. They are mercenary's that go around destroying caravans... that's pretty dishonorable.

Another Solution would be to make them not be at war with factions when they are neutral. If they raid my caravan when part of a faction I'm at war with then fair enough. They also seem to join other factions less than the infantry based merc clans.
 
It isn't random.

If you want to get technical almost nothing a computer does is truly random, but it definitely feels arbitrary. Executing a few freebooting mercenaries shouldn't result in -100 relations with your own faction leader. Currently the only remotely fun way to play the game is to murder all the lords with the broken glaive, and even that gets grindy given how much the game wants to punish you for doing that.
 
Another Solution would be to make them not be at war with factions when they are neutral. If they raid my caravan when part of a faction I'm at war with then fair enough. They also seem to join other factions less than the infantry based merc clans.
There's another way of looking at this and solving your problem.
Executing merc bandit leaders in reality only slows the raids down - if attacking caravans on some route is profitable and easy, another bandit leader will come through the ranks. Cartels and mafia organizations are typically not destroyed by eliminating their leader - their reason to exist doesn't change.
What is realistic in this situation is that you increase caravan protection and send powerful patrols on the caravan route to discourage and hunt down bandits or even find and destroy their base.
So in the game, you'll need to be able to at least send patrolling parties of arbitrary strength to some problem area, since you can't just camp there yourself - you have better things to do. If the game is giving you a challenge, it also needs to give you tools to overcome it and not leave you bare-assed.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
If you want to get technical almost nothing a computer does is truly random, but it definitely feels arbitrary. Executing a few freebooting mercenaries shouldn't result in -100 relations with your own faction leader. Currently the only remotely fun way to play the game is to murder all the lords with the broken glaive, and even that gets grindy given how much the game wants to punish you for doing that.
I'm just saying there is a method to the madness. And an ultimate goal that they don't actually want players being able to kill very many characters.

Of course, that relies on people giving a **** about having the dishonorable trait. Even when its actual in-game impact is making it modestly more difficult to recruit hordes of clans to your faction.
 

Bannerman Man

C# Sleuth
Knight
Couple things to point out real quick:
  • The tooltip that tells you the relationship hits is sometimes incorrect; it will show you losing relations with honorable lords when you execute a dishonorable lord even though you won't actually lose relations with them.
  • Because of the way it's coded, you will suffer (up to) a 4x relations hit with minor/mercenary clans - once for each lord from that clan that is still alive.
Currently in the game, they'll simply spawn new lords to the minor faction then continue raiding your caravans.
There's only a 10% chance per week for a new mercenary lord to spawn, so it will take 10 weeks on average to replace a lord that you've killed. If you manage to kill all four living members of the clan before their replacements spawn, you will still eliminate the clan (in theory). However, it looks like there's a bug right now that allows the clan to continue to spawn new lords anyway even after being eliminated.
 

Apocal

Grandmaster Knight
There's only a 10% chance per week for a new mercenary lord to spawn, so it will take 10 weeks on average to replace a lord that you've killed. If you manage to kill all four living members of the clan before their replacements spawn, you will still eliminate the clan (in theory). However, it looks like there's a bug right now that allows the clan to continue to spawn new lords anyway even after being eliminated.
It might've been a bug, but the dead minor factions that I personally killed off all poofed 4 new members into existence. I posted a bug report about it and didn't get a response, but maybe it was fixed or just the result of carrying the same save from four patches back.
 
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