[Suggestions] Collection of Weapon Suggestions.

[Hamel]

I didn't like Urist's thread, so I made my own. (Just kidding, I've actually been working on this for days. )

This thread is a simple one. So I will try not to make it complicated by putting in a large paragraph of text explaining this very simple thread. So, here is a list of weapon stat suggestions, intended to make the new weapons fit in more, and make all the weapons generally feel a little more balanced. Mostly it's beta-tester feedback:


Scimitar: Decrease price from 210 to 190.

Elite Scimitar: Decrease length from 103 to 101.

(The Scimitar seems just a liittle bit too pricey, and the Elite Scimitar seems just a little too long.)


Spiked Club: Increase damage from 19p to 21p. Decrease speed from 99 to 97.

Knobbed Mace: Increase damage from 21b to 23b. Decrease speed from 98 to 96.

Spiked Mace: Increase damage from 22b to 25b. Decrease speed from 98 to 96.

Winged Mace: Increase damage from 24b to 27b. Decrease speed from 98 to 95.

(The maces are kind of weak and a little fast, making them seem more like other one-handers. If they were just a little slower, and had a bit more damage, they would be probably be more unique. I'm not sure how knockdown is calculated, but they really don't need a higher chance of that.)


Bardiche: Decrease damage from 47c to 43c.

Long Bardiche: Decrease damage from 48c to 45c.

Great Bardiche: Decrease damage from 50c to 46c.

Great Long Bardiche: Decrease damage from 50c to 47c.

(This is part of the whole Nerf The Two Handers, thing. They don't really need all that damage. These are Vaegirs we're talking about.)



One Handed War Axe 1: Decrease speed from 100 to 95.

One Handed Battle Axe 1: Decrease speed from 99 to 94.

One Handed War Axe 2: Decrease speed from 99 to 94.

One Handed Battle Axe 2: Decrease speed from 99 to 94.

One Handed Battle Axe 3: Decrease speed from 99 to 93.

(These weapons have great damage, excellent speed, a bonus against shields, a low weight, and most of them are fairly cheap. The only thing they don't have in abundance is length. And since they're so small, they are probably the most difficult to block in the entire game. Especially since they have to get up in your face to hit you. They really need this speed decrease.)


Two Handed Axe: Decrease speed from 96 to 95.

Two Handed War Axe: Decrease speed from 96 to 94.

Great Axe: Decrease damage from 47 to 46. Decrease speed from 94 to 92.

Long Axe: Decrease damage from 50c to 48c. Decrease speed from 89 to 88. Increase weight from 4.5 to 5.5.

Long War Axe: Decrease damage from 51c to 49c. Decrease speed from 88 to 87. Increase weight from 4.5 to 5.5.

Great Long Axe: Decrease damage from 52c to 51c. Decrease speed from 87 to 85. Increase weight from 4.5 to 6.0.

(The two handed axes are kind of crazy fast in comparison to other two handers, this doesn't seem necessary with their bonus against shields and high damage. We all know long axes are a little bit overpowered. The speed decrease really isn't as important as the weight, but I tried to suggest a balance in comparison to other two handed weapons, namely the Bardiches, while hopefully keeping the Long Axe unique. The weight increase relies on them not getting block crush, though.



Bastard Sword: Decrease speed from 98 to 97.

Heavy Bastard Sword: Decrease damage from 37c 27p to 36c 26p. Decrease speed from 97 to 96.

Two Handed Sword: Decrease damage from 40c 28p to 38c 27p.

Great Sword: Decrease damage from 42c 29p to 40c 28p.

(With all the two hander nerfs suggested, these guys aren't getting out of this completely unscathed. Most of them need a small damage decrease to make up for their relatively unchanged speeds, and consistently low weight.)


Awlpike: Decrease speed from 92 to 91.

Long Awlpike: Decrease speed from 89 to 88.

(The Awlpikes seem significantly faster than most of their fellow polearms, despite their relatively high damage. One cannot really lower their speed by much, though. Since they do have a higher price than most polearms.)



Maul: Increase price from 97 to 330.

Sledgehammer: Increase price from 101 to 454.

Warhammer: Increase price from 290 to 610.

(Hopefully, their very high weight and increased price will balance their shield and block crushing ways.)


Fighting Pick: Decrease weight from 3.5 to 2.5.

Spiked Staff: Decrease weight from 3.5 to 2.5.

Military Pick: Decrease weight from 4.0 to 2.8. Increase speed from 94 to 97.

Morningstar: Increase price from 205 to 271. Decrease weight from 5.5 to 5.0. Decrease length from 98 to 92.

(These weapons are all rather heavy, like, really heavy. This may make them resistant to stun, but the Rhodoks don't have much in the way of light weaponry. The morning star seems a little underused at the moment, but I haven't the foggiest idea why, it is apparently an extremely powerful weapon.)


Military Sickle A: Increase price from 187 to 203. Decrease speed from 100 to 93.

Soldier's Cleaver: Increase weight from 1.5 to 2.0.

Military Cleaver: Increase weight from 1.5 to 2.0. Decrease damage from 35c to 33c.

War Cleaver: Increase price from 640 to 870. Increase weight from 2.8 to 3.8. Decrease speed from 93 to 89.

(The Military Sickle is so much better than the other Rhodok one handers, and thus, needs changing. Also, the sickle should really be in the line with the picks, between the Military Pick and the Morningstar. The Military Cleaver doesn't need to be so much more damaging than the Soldier's Cleaver. The War Cleaver seems to be a cheap Greatsword without a stab, for Rhodoks. Thus it should get a price increase to make it more on par with the Greatsword. And a weight increase along with a speed decrease to make up for its slightly higher damage.)


What's with all of the weight changes? All of these weapon stat suggestions rely on the two "Melee Weapons" gameplay suggestion made in this thread: Collection of Gameplay Suggestions

And before anyone asks, yes, I did record and examine the stats of every melee weapon in warbands, so this should be fairly well thought out. I was bored, so sue me.


Stealth edit: Increased suggested price for hammers.

 

[Styo]

Why would you do the following?

Great Long Bardiche: Decrease damage from 50c to 46c. Decrease speed from 88 to 87.

Great Long Axe: Decrease damage from 52c to 51c. Decrease speed from 87 to 84. Increase weight from 4.5 to 6.0.


The Bardiche has a longer and bigger blade? so it should do more damage then the axe.

 

[Hamel]

Why would you do the following?

Great Long Bardiche: Decrease damage from 50c to 46c. Decrease speed from 88 to 87.

Great Long Axe: Decrease damage from 52c to 51c. Decrease speed from 87 to 84. Increase weight from 4.5 to 6.0.


The Bardiche has a longer and bigger blade? so it should do more damage then the axe.

It's simply a question of who should get the more powerful, albeit slower, two-hander. The answer, for me at least, was the Nords. The Great Long Axe already does more damage than the bardiche, anyway.

Although, perhaps the Great Long Bardiche should get less of damage decrease than I listed, since the Vaegirs get lower two-handed proficiency anyway. I'll edit it a little.

 

[Styo]

Also i dont think the 1 hander battle axes should get touched at all, they are perfect as is... Just increase the speed of the short swords by 1 or 2 n then that will be perfect. Besides that i agree.

Well done.

 

[switchfoot]

It would be nice to try this out. Good effort man!

 

[Urist]

I don't think reducing the speed of the 1h axes and maces is a good idea.
They have to be that fast to offset their low range.
With 93 speed for the highest tier 1h waraxe one can block it effordlessly
while taking a nap.
I'd rather increase the speed of the 1h swords by 1 or 2 points to set them apart
from the axes/maces.

Don't take the 103 reach away from ma e-scimi please. It's the perfect
horseman 1-hander.

 

[Berserker Pride]

I disagree with most of the speed decreases. I would rather see big two-handed weapons have longer recovery time between swings not a low speed stat.  But I agree with most of the damage changes.  Two-handers deal just a little too much damage.

 

[Hamel]

I don't think reducing the speed of the 1h axes and maces is a good idea.
They have to be that fast to offset their low range.
With 93 speed for the highest tier 1h waraxe one can block it effordlessly
while taking a nap.
I'd rather increase the speed of the 1h swords by 1 or 2 points to set them apart
from the axes/maces.

I disagree. At the moment, one handed axes are excellent at killing manual blockers, because of their speed. And the best shield vs shield weapon in the entire game, because of their high damage, bonus against shields, and speed. When coupled with a huscarl shield or two, you have an nigh unstoppable killing machine. It's getting to the point where every nord and khergit I fight is carrying one of these things.

These things can kill people in one hit! They eat shields up in a few strikes! And you're saying they should keep their current state, and swords should be sped up instead? Pardon me if I think that is just a little ridiculous.

As for maces, sure they don't need to be stronger and slower, I just think it might fit them better.

Don't take the 103 reach away from ma e-scimi please. It's the perfect
horseman 1-hander.

It's also rather OP when used on foot.

Horsemen have problems for sure, but they cannot, and should not be fixed with weaponry.

I disagree with most of the speed decreases. I would rather see big two-handed weapons have longer recovery time between swings not a low speed stat.  But I agree with most of the damage changes.  Two-handers deal just a little too much damage.

-.-

Yeah, that's why I suggested it in this thread's sister-thread.

Increase minimum time between swings, depending on the weight (largest effect) and length (slight effect) of the weapon.

I'll admit the long axes don't need as much of a speed decrease as I originally suggested.

 

[CMarshall]

Don't take the 103 reach away from ma e-scimi please. It's the perfect
horseman 1-hander.

It's also rather OP when used on foot.

Horsemen have problems for sure, but they cannot, and should not be fixed with weaponry.

I agree with Urist, also partially because the extra length is the only thing separating it from the normal scimitar- reducing it would leave us with a scimitar clone that does nothing noticeably better

 

[Urist]

The combination of high backpedal speed, instant blocking and kick already gives the 2-hand user
an advantage over the sword/mace/axe&board guy.
One-handers have to be that fast to stand a chance.
Nevertheless I could live with a speed reduce by 1 for all the 1 hand
axes, while mace speed stays as it is and sword speed gets a raised by 1 (not the short swords though).

 

[glustrod]

The combination of high backpedal speed, instant blocking and kick already gives the 2-hand user
an advantage over the sword/mace/axe&board guy.

But you don't really think all these advantages are gonna stay as they are right now? And you forgot stun.

 

[Hamel]

I agree with Urist, also partially because the extra length is the only thing separating it from the normal scimitar- reducing it would leave us with a scimitar clone that does nothing noticeably better

The Scimitar has a reach of 97, the Elite Scimitar has 103.

My suggestion was to lower the Elite Scimitar's length by 2, leaving it with 101. Which is still very much superior to the Scimitar. But if that's not enough to appear worthy of the extra 80/100 gold, the developers could always lower the damage on the Scimitar slightly.

The combination of high backpedal speed, instant blocking and kick already gives the 2-hand user
an advantage over the sword/mace/axe&board guy.
One-handers have to be that fast to stand a chance.

That's assuming that the two-handed weapons would keep those advantages.

The suggestions here, and in my Collection of Gameplay Suggestions, leave two-handed weapons generally disadvantaged when fighting sword&board users.

If the two-handed user knows how to block well, he will have an advantage over the sword&board user, yeah. But if the shield user knows what he's doing, and/or knows how to parry well, the two-handed user is at a disadvantage. Is this not as it should be?

 

[Halcyon]

The Scimitar has a reach of 97, the Elite Scimitar has 103.

My suggestion was to lower the Elite Scimitar's length by 2, leaving it with 101. Which is still very much superior to the Scimitar. But if that's not enough to appear worthy of the extra 80/100 gold, the developers could always lower the damage on the Scimitar slightly.

What no, dont nerf scimitars MORE, they are probably the worst weapon in the game already! Scimitar had its speed nerfed already, there is no reason to make it a useless weapon. 103 reach is fine, but it would be nice if the elite scimitar did like 31c to actually be worthwhile for losing speed. Also normal scimitar should AT LEAST have 103 speed, to be just as fast as the better short swords.

 

[Hamel]

What no, dont nerf scimitars MORE, they are probably the worst weapon in the game already! Scimitar had its speed nerfed already, there is no reason to make it a useless weapon. 103 reach is fine, but it would be nice if the elite scimitar did like 31c to actually be worthwhile for losing speed. Also normal scimitar should AT LEAST have 103 speed, to be just as fast as the better short swords.

How did I know you were going to post on this.

The scimitar is an excellent weapon, its stats are pretty much superior to just about all the other swords. The only thing it lacks is a thrust attack. There was a time when Vaegir spearmen didn't even get scimitars, why complain about a few suggested stat nerfs to make them a little more balanced in comparison to other swords?

Knowing you though, you don't want plain scimitars to be weaker because you play archers, and the scimitar is the common weapon of the Vaegir archer, am I right?

I play archers too, though. Thus I agree with you that the Vaegir archer does not need to be any weaker in melee. I'd like to see them get a higher 1hand proficiency, and maybe another point of powerstrike.

 

[Halcyon]

well yeah, and actually not being able to thrust hurts the weapon a lot. Plus the damage for the normal scimitar is actually fine, the top arming sword which has 29c and i forget the pierce only costs like 243, its greatest advantage is the thrust which does much better damage, because its piercing damage. You cant really say the scimitar has 97 reach either, and either way a 2 reach difference between the scimitar and normal swords is almost negligible, plus i doubt the scimitar's reach is properly reflected in the game (much like every other weapon). I would not be surprised if even the elite scimitar suffered from this, and actually had a heavy bastard sword reach of 105. Right now i would say the scimitar is imbalanced because of its speed.

And yea you are right, I was disgusted when i saw the scimitar speed was lowered, it really was the only thing that gave vaegir archers a better chance in melee.

I think all ranged (archer and xbow) should have 100 proficiency in the weapon stats, and all infantry/cav could get like 10-15 more points in each too. 90 still seems way too low

 

[RalliX]

Stop nerfing 1H axes! They're already more expensive than swords!

 

[Halcyon]

are you dumb?

Axes got an unnecessary speed buff, the lowest speed of an axe is 98, they dont suffer from decreased damaged down the haft, have insane cutting damage and a bonus against shields. axes do need a slight nerf. Doesnt the strongest axe cost like 250?

 

[Berserker Pride]

98 isn't fast.  And those axes are so short I don't know if it is even possible to hit with the haft.  Swords will always be longer.  Axes should be equal speed to the swords.  The way I see it you choose between the extra damage(axe) or the extra length and stab(sword).  If you make axes slower as well then axes will become an inferior weapon.

 

[Halcyon]

hardly. And i dont want an extreme speed nerf on axes, but i just want them to be where they were before. Which was in the 96-98 range right now they have 98-100. As for the haft thing, that is exactly why they are so much better than swords. Tell me how many times you get glancing blows with a sword, and how many you get with axes. Axes almost never get glancing blows, which make them far better weapons, coupled with their great damage it makes for short work of pretty much anything it faces.

 

[Hamel]

Plus the damage for the normal scimitar is actually fine, the top arming sword which has 29c and i forget the pierce only costs like 243,

Actually, the arming sword costs 410, and has 2 less length and speed than the Scimitar, and 8 less length than the Elite Scimitar.

its greatest advantage is the thrust which does much better damage, because its piercing damage.

The Arming Sword's thrust does 24p, so it only does more damage than the 29c of the Scimitar and Arming Sword if it's against a decently armored opponent. Also, thrusting tends to have a lower speed bonus than swinging, because of how they work.

We should not forget that people rarely wear helmets. I've had such fun times running around with an elite scimitar slashing people across their unprotected faces. 

You cant really say the scimitar has 97 reach either

I can too, it say so right on it's stats.

and either way a 2 reach difference between the scimitar and normal swords is almost negligible

If that is the case, no one will miss another 2 length off of the Elite Scimitar.

Stop nerfing 1H axes! They're already more expensive than swords!

Incorrect. The one handed axes are less expensive than the Nordic swords up until the final two axes, which are only slightly more expensive (10, and 100) than the top two Nordic swords. (And the top Swadian sword is more expensive than the top Nordic sword.)

98 isn't fast.  And those axes are so short I don't know if it is even possible to hit with the haft.  Swords will always be longer.  Axes should be equal speed to the swords.  The way I see it you choose between the extra damage(axe) or the extra length and stab(sword).  If you make axes slower as well then axes will become an inferior weapon.

... 100-98 (their current speed) puts one-handed axes as the second fastest weapons in the game. Second only to swords and sabres, and not by much at all.

You're saying less length is a proper price to pay for excellent speed, great damage, and a bonus against shields?